63 replies to this topic

[melkor_morgoth75]

Hello everyone,

when my life permits me, i'm working on areas and spawning system and cre spawn chances but i'd like to hear people's opinion about an option.

I have 3 choices so far, i'm going to explain here pro-cons:

1) Spawn system based on Main Character Level. The system checks what level your character is and spawn different numbers/cre based on that.
2) Spawn system based on the number of members in your party. The system checks how many NPC are in group (and your character too) and the spawn is based on that number.
3) Spawn system based on both: Main Char Lev check & number of members. I do think this last is the very best option but it is more difficult, complicated and mainly longer to implement. The system checks your Lev and how many characters are in the party and spawn different types/number of monsters accordingly.

Please i'd like to hear your opinion about what u prefer, taking into consideration that the 3rd option would involve much work, greater and more complicated tables and that would take lot of time to complete. Basically ... do u prefer a "simpler" mod but ready in few months maybe, or a "clever"/more deeper mod but that can takes much time to implement?

Please remember that the spawn system is also different from night&day (u will have different creatures during daylight time than during night-time) so the work is always "doubled" :-)

Cheers to everyone!

mm75

Edited by melkor_morgoth75, 15 May 2008 - 12:15 AM.

[Salk]

Hello, melkor!

Obviously the best option is number 3. No doubt about it.

My second choice would be number 2 but for people soloing the game (not me), solution 1 would be way better.

Since I have been waiting forever to play BGT because of on Mod or because of one other, I would recommend to go for number 3. You might get some help from some experienced coder to have some assistance.

Good luck in your project!

[Jarno Mikkola]

I like the 3rd idea, but...

But if the encounters are random, the system needs to be more random...
So, why not use a randomizer for the systemic randomizers. And what is that? Well, every time you have an encounter, it picks you what systemic randomizers it uses(one of the four), and then that gives you what and how many monsters are summoned. Based on the system that was already chosen that's based on;
1) Your main char level. (Or)
2) How many chars you have on the group.
3) What chapter you are in.
4) What area you are now on.

[melkor_morgoth75]

I like the 3rd idea, but...

But if the encounters are random, the system needs to be more random...
So, why not use a randomizer for the systemic randomizers. And what is that? Well, every time you have an encounter, it picks you what systemic randomizers it uses(one of the four), and then that gives you what and how many monsters are summoned. Based on the system that was already chosen that's based on;
1) Your main char level. (Or)
2) How many chars you have on the group.
3) What chapter you are in.
4) What area you are now on.

Well, actually i wouldn't like such a system ... i'm working on something REALLY random based on Char Lev and Party numbers, so u would have (differently by area, day & night):

Char Lev = 1, Party N° = 1 --> x% (1d3)cre1, y% (1d2)cre2, z% (1)cre3 where "k"d3 is based on type of monster.
Char Lev = 1, Party N° = 2 --> x% (1d4)cre1, y% (1d3)cre2, z% (1d2)cre3 ...

Just an example how the system/table should work for different areas. Moreover (may be in a late version) i'd like to implement some little chances to have some "fixed" encounters (and maybe little quest) too within some areas ...

Does it make sense and is it random as u may like? (i also want a system to be the most random possible),

mm75

Edited by melkor_morgoth75, 15 May 2008 - 06:50 AM.

[ScuD]

BTW don't forget the issue like the one present by default in Oblivion.
It's about levelling up the spawns while developing the character - in the beginning of the game you can meet a simple bandit with a rusty sword, but at level ~20-30 you can meet a bunch of guys in glass armors at the very same place.
It doesn't add realism to the game, does it?

[melkor_morgoth75]

BTW don't forget the issue like the one present by default in Oblivion.
It's about levelling up the spawns while developing the character - in the beginning of the game you can meet a simple bandit with a rusty sword, but at level ~20-30 you can meet a bunch of guys in glass armors at the very same place.
It doesn't add realism to the game, does it?

Yep u're right and i'm considering also that, but i'm considering an option in between. From a side i don't wanna have a "boring" game, from another side i don't wanna unreal encounters. Please take into consideration that i will work only on the BG1 spawn part of the game, not the BG2 one, so at that point Characters would be around 8-9 Lev, maybe 10 with LOT of mods installed but not beyond that.

Just an example, without spoiling much about what it will be: in the very first area outside Candlekeep, at lev 1 u can encounter a Wild Dog or a War Dog, while at Lev 5 with a "6 party" u will find or a group of mixed dogs or a couple of bears. During the night, u may find a wolf or at high level maybe a Werewolf.

Hope this make sense and gives longevity and some more fun to the game,

mm75

[Zyraen]

I am unfamiliar with Tutu style spawns but it does make sense.

Alternatively though, what I did in Silmarillion was to use a CRE as a "template", and then modify the Stats (Str Dex Con being most relevant) and Hitpoints, as well as AC, Thac0, Resistances, accordingly to a formula, to create a new unique CRE that will spawn based on the level of the Player.

I'm not sure if that is a Tutu-styled spawn, but I think it should work nicely.

If you want to talk about the coding, I can talk on MSN or pass you what I have. Though having only BG2 it starts at level 8 only. For more information you can always look up the Silmarillion forum.

Edited by Zyraen, 15 May 2008 - 06:08 PM.

[Leomar]

3) Spawn system based on both: Main Char Lev check & number of members.

This sounds the best to me, too.

Just an example how the system/table should work for different areas. Moreover (may be in a late version) i'd like to implement some little chances to have some "fixed" encounters (and maybe little quest) too within some areas ...

I like your idea of later versions and what they could inlude. Like the BG2 spawn system I find a mix of all wonderful. So you can spawn enemies, wandering traders, just people you can talk with, and so on. You can include all of your ideas. And this for BG1. Really sounds good. This will make BG1 more more interesting and nobody knows, when this will happen.

But for your first release it will be the best you take 3). Then it is not important, if one plays with 3 until 5 NPC or is soloing. Your spawn system is for everyone, then .

Greetings Leomar

[melkor_morgoth75]

Many thanks for the info, help and suggestion mates!

I hope to be able to do a decent work at least :-)))

Stay tuned ...

mm75

[Nuuskamuikkunen]

Played through the entirety of BG1 and I found the spawns to be ok

[melkor_morgoth75]

I'd like to have some feedbacks from players ...

I'm trying to create spawns as close to be fair and challenging as possible. But a point raised up ... Currently in the game u can face a single wolf or maybe 2, while in "true life" or Ad&d system u just have VERY little chances to face that (1%). Wolves, for example, as dogs, etc...live in groups so u should ONLY face a groups of wolves while moving around and not just a single one.
But it is a "theorical" concept, i'd like to see players' opinion about it. Do u care to face for example a single wolf? Or do u want a system close to "reality" and avoid facing a single animal while it normally lives in group.

Just an example here. With the system i tried to implement you now would have:

- During the day at 1st Lev with only your char forming the party -> 50% chances to face a Wild Dog ... 10% chances to face a War Dog, etc ...
- During the night at 1st Lev with only your char forming the party -> 20% chances to face a Wolf ... 35% chances to face 1d2 Wild Dog, etc ...

Do u want me to REMOVE the chance to face just a single wolf (for example, so only group of wolves) or the chance to face a group of creature while they usually are alone (for example Leopard).

I'm honest to say i don't care too much about it, but i want to know people's opinion to create something that people like

mm75

[Jarno Mikkola]

Do u care to face for example a single wolf? Or do u want a system close to "reality" and avoid facing a single animal while it normally lives in group.

Well, with a few party members, it's obvious that I wouldn't want to face a horde orcs, perhaps a ten or twenty would be enough... for the first wave.
Ah... as for the single enemies, it greatly depends on how difficult it might be, but I wouldn't mind even really really easy fights, from time to time(at least +20% of total experience) as I don't want to heal every time I have won something. But there also needs to be the 1% chance of the 10/partymember of gibberlings +ogrilo as their leader.

Besides there are quite many lonely wolves in the nature... and the packs are rarity, depending on the animal of course, and the civil class...

[Salk]

I would go for the most realisting options and then tweak the spawns to suit them.

[Leomar]

Only my opinion: We play a RPG and here everything could happen.

You can meet one wolf or a group of wolfs.
You can meet one goblin or a group of goblins.
You can meet one animal/creature or a group of animals/creatures.

There could be many reasons, why one should not go with the others.
e.g.
- A wolf is the last one and is hungy (the others are dead, because they killed by heros)
- This wolf was surprised by the heros and want to defend himself.
- A goblin is wandering around and don't think that his way could be make problems.
- A goblin is quite far away of his group and he don't mentioned it.

What I want to say is, you can spawn only one creature or you can spawn more. Why only one creature is there at the moment, could have many reasons and therefore it could happens.

Greetings Leomar

[melkor_morgoth75]

Thanks guys for your replies! So i continue with the "current" work. U can face a single wolf and Jarno be sure that, depending on areas and levels, spawn could be also very challenging (it also depends on a random factor :-)

mm75

[melkor_morgoth75]

Dunnow if it is possible to add that feature (for a good completed work, i should write different tables for different levels, but honestly it would involve too much time to complete...). Anyway, Ascension has nothind to do with BG1 spawn unfortunately ... and the BGT Spawn-system i'd like to complete is for the BG1 part of the game,

cheers!

mm75

[Jarno Mikkola]

I just went through the first couple of areas with Baldur's Gate Trilogy and I see 1 bear where Gorian was killed but the last time through there was like 8 bears. I was constantly getting attacked by 8 gibberlings at a time.

You get the 8 to 9 enemies from the Tutu(well I had them in EasyTutu)... but they are kinda hard with just the PC and Imoen, and I don't like going back..., as you should know, they'll never return, unless you put the Tutu spawn randomizer or what ever it was.

As the original game had one bear, few goblins etc. I liked it like that, as the area difficulty was determined from what you can have at the time...
->By the way, yes it took determination, but I was still able to clear out the Lion's Way(fw2700, with level 1 to 2 level chars with SCS and Tutu on Insane difficulty) on the first go, including the ogre that was just pansy after the Xvart legions etc.