63 replies to this topic

[melkor_morgoth75]

Thanks for the link.

Ascension is that fine/update? Just let me know and i start working with spawn creatures :-)

mm75

[Oldwolf]

I like the leveled type spawns where the monsters are leveled to the character but the problem with it seems to me to be the size of the party. When I use tutu style spawns in my game me and Immy don't have much trouble getting Jaheira and Khalid, Montaron and Zar but after the party increases in size the spawns don't seem to so the encounters get to be too easy. It would be nice if the difficulty of the monsters (ie: monster level/power) were increased per party size as well as the total number spawning. I wouldn't care for a spawnless game because that would seem fairly unrealistic to me. The way to gain levels and loot/equipment when you're low level is the random monster spawns. The maximum spawn level of the monsters is also somewhat unrealistic. A group of 10th level toons in a heavily modded BG1 portion of a BGT game still run into Xvarts and Kobolds? Now that's silly. A random table of some sort to adjust the type power and number of monsters scaled to the level & number of party members would IMHO be fantastic. That way those who like to keep as small a party as possible and those who like a LOT of help/friends along would both get challenging encounters, including the deactivation of spawns would be ok as an option for those that just like to stroll and sight see

[melkor_morgoth75]

I like the leveled type spawns where the monsters are leveled to the character but the problem with it seems to me to be the size of the party. When I use tutu style spawns in my game me and Immy don't have much trouble getting Jaheira and Khalid, Montaron and Zar but after the party increases in size the spawns don't seem to so the encounters get to be too easy. It would be nice if the difficulty of the monsters (ie: monster level/power) were increased per party size as well as the total number spawning. I wouldn't care for a spawnless game because that would seem fairly unrealistic to me. The way to gain levels and loot/equipment when you're low level is the random monster spawns. The maximum spawn level of the monsters is also somewhat unrealistic. A group of 10th level toons in a heavily modded BG1 portion of a BGT game still run into Xvarts and Kobolds? Now that's silly. A random table of some sort to adjust the type power and number of monsters scaled to the level & number of party members would IMHO be fantastic. That way those who like to keep as small a party as possible and those who like a LOT of help/friends along would both get challenging encounters, including the deactivation of spawns would be ok as an option for those that just like to stroll and sight see

We are on the same line ... it's exactly the spawn system i'd like to see. I begin working on monsters/level/random,etc tables ... soon, as soon as i get the confirm about areas :-)

mm75

[Jarno Mikkola]

soon, as soon as i get the confirm about areas :-)

mm75

Well, it's the same list as far as I can see, than this. So my quess would be that it's correct.

Questening a few things got me thinking, are the random encounters in BG1 so random, as for me, they are more area based than just random. So, it would be good that the encounters were build so that they have some kind of structure that prevents the 5 dragons and a swarm of vampires running you out from the Beregosts road.
So remember, we don't want to make the same kind of mistake the Oblivion was made to, we don't want level scaling!

[melkor_morgoth75]

Questening a few things got me thinking, are the random encounters in BG1 so random, as for me, they are more area based than just random. So, it would be good that the encounters were build so that they have some kind of structure that prevents the 5 dragons and a swarm of vampires running you out from the Beregosts road.
So remember, we don't want to make the same kind of mistake the Oblivion was made to, we don't want level scaling!

Yep ... that's what i'd like to do. Random but with sense. If u read my previous posts u also notice that i'd like to have different spawn by day and by night. Any areas should have its kind of monsters. Example, in the forest near BG there won't be any winter wolves ... or in a forest u won't find a "guard" or gnolls. Anyway i'd like to have lot of different monsters/encounters per Area, so that any game would be different and enjoable. Here the "pre-generated" encounters i was speaking before could be really enjoable and cool to keep the longevity of the game :-)

Just my 2 cents,

mm75

[Ascension64]

I hope today i can do some work, ascension do u have a name list of "your" areas? (i mean BGT areas) so that i can give full details for each area.

Anyway i remember i posted a reply here but it seems ... it didn't show up. I just added this: is it possible to add within the random encounters some "fixed" encounters also? This fixed ones should have let's say 5% chance of spawning (just an example: a group of bandits looking for you with a leader). From here another question: in the case i face 1 of those fixed encounter, is there any chance to force them spawning again? (let's say they killed me, i'd like to face them again).

Just another thought :-)

mm75

Should be modifiable using the Tutu system. Yes.

Link to BGT map list is a pinned thread: http://www.shsforums...showtopic=23374.

A random table of some sort to adjust the type power and number of monsters scaled to the level & number of party members would IMHO be fantastic.

I think the original BG was capped at around level 8 or something? That probably explains why scaling has a limit. The Tutu system compensates in some cases by changing the type of monster spawned and definitely the number up to a certain point. As for number of party members, I don't think there is a way for the engine to do that, unfortunately. If you work with mm75, I'm sure you'll come up with a great spawn system.

[Jarno Mikkola]

As for number of party members, I don't think there is a way for the engine to do that

Can't you use some code like this:

IF
(player1)
THEN
	   RESPONSE #100
	   CreateCreature("zzz",[yyy.www],t)	   //n.1
   END
IF
(Player2)
THEN
	   RESPONSE #100
	   CreateCreature("zzz",[yyy.www],t)	   //n.2
	   CreateCreature("zzz",[yyy.www],t)	   //n.3
   END
...
IF
(Player6)
THEN
	   RESPONSE #100
	   CreateCreature("zzz",[yyy.www],t)	   //n.21
	   CreateCreature("zzz",[yyy.www],t)	   //n.22
   END

As the playerX should give positive resault if there's in a member in the party, and negative if it doesn't exist. Yes, I know that it might not work, as I have no idea how the coding actually works.

[Ascension64]

Not sure about that. The Tutu-style spawns have continuous trap scripts running, so I don't know if InMyArea(PlayerX) works. Things like Detect(PlayerX) will only run true if the trap area 'detects' a player. Also, Range(PlayerX,<some infinite number>) might work, but it will need some testing.

Anyway, contrive your spawn system so that it does scale based on # people in party and then we'll see what we can do about the scripting.

[melkor_morgoth75]

Ascension64, u have a PM ;-)

mm75

[melkor_morgoth75]

I'm starting collecting area info and later will start on a table for the spawn system.

I'd like to have some feedbacks if possible both from modders & users please ...

1) The number and type of spawn cre should be based on:
1a) Total level of your party members (modders: is that possible? Is there any way to have a variable containing the total levels of party?)
1b) Level of MAIN character

2) I'd like also to implement a "nice" spawn system between "areas" ... i mean, the encounters u find moving between one area & another. The game is using a different spawn system there. @modders: is it possible to "use" a similar spawn system also for those encounters? I'd like to implement the chance of spawing some "fixed" encounters there.

3) Ascension64: spawn system within dungeons. Can i also implement that on any Bg1 area?

4) I will work an ANY BG1 area (for now at least) so the spawn system should be playable for all BG1 areas.

mm75

[Ascension64]

3) Ascension64: spawn system within dungeons. Can i also implement that on any Bg1 area?

Yes.

[melkor_morgoth75]

Just another help please if possible...is there around a FULL list of BG1&BG2 creatures with their "normal" stats (HP, Thac0, etc...)

many thanks,

mm75

PS: the work is pretty big and long but it is reallyfunny. I hope to be able to create something challenging, clever (hopefully) and longeval ;-)

[grogerson]

It's been a while since I ran BGT, but I remember the spawning. Been working on a BG1 tweak pack (with CamDawgs permission and help) and am very familiar with BG1 spawning, and now I'm taking a stroll through vanilla BG2. BGT spawns are a bit tougher than BG1, but enough to keep you on your toes. And dangerous for the unwary and foolish.

[Jarno Mikkola]

The avoidance level adjusting gave me an idea, why not base the spawning system to the chapter number, as for example, chapter 1 the Gibberling, Kobolds, Xvarts, and even few rats rule the land, the bandit's and Hobgoblin come more often when they should in chapter 4(?, before you take out both of their camps) and in chapter 7, it could be that there is no random encounters, except the area specific etc.

[melkor_morgoth75]

The avoidance level adjusting gave me an idea, why not base the spawning system to the chapter number, as for example, chapter 1 the Gibberling, Kobolds, Xvarts, and even few rats rule the land, the bandit's and Hobgoblin come more often when they should in chapter 4(?, before you take out both of their camps) and in chapter 7, it could be that there is no random encounters, except the area specific etc.

It's a cool idea but ... i'd prefer to prefer spawn based on character's level, mainly for one reason: mods. People who plays BGT with some BG1 mods may advance with levels soon and may be at chapter 3 PC is just level 6 or 7. Using chapter as base for spawn would make the things easier for people in my opinion, that's why i think, for now, level-based is still the best option. Thanks anyway Jarno, new ideas are always welcome.

Guys: anyone has a clue about a FULL list of BG1&BG2 creatures with stats? It would save me LOT of time. I tried lot of search around on the net but found pretty nothing decent ...

Thanks!

mm75

[Jarno Mikkola]

Guys: anyone has a clue about a FULL list of BG1&BG2 creatures with stats? It would save me LOT of time. I tried lot of search around on the net but found pretty nothing decent ...

Well, the best I could find is this.(Name, Hitpoints, Xp from killing)
Uuu, I found this for BG2, it has everything! But you might want to clean up a little of the none essentials so you can work with it!

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 06 April 2008 - 01:00 AM.

[melkor_morgoth75]

Thanks A LOT Jarno !!!!

It helps me for sure ... ;-) Going to save them now ...

mm75

[Icanus]

i voted for tutu-style. It's not perfect either but the thing i didn't like about the bgt spawning system where the mixed groups of enemies, which really spoiled the atmosphere for me. Why should a kobold, a xvart and a tasloi work together (expect darryl and his gang of course ;-) )?
i really like the ideas melkor posted here and would love a spawning system like this. It should be chapter and level based at the same time, because one of the weak points of tutu-spawning is for example no random bandit encounters in chapter four.
i really like the idea of day and night spawns, always found it strange to meet a group of skeletons on a nice and warm summerday at the high hedge.

[Nuuskamuikkunen]

Only played up till just after the Nashkel mines and from what I've experienced from that, the BGT spawns are superior to Tutu. One example...in Tutu, you're a level 1 mage just hanging around, you know, chilling where the lion's way meets the trade road. Then all of a sudden, like, 5 million murderous gibberlings rampage you! It's really shit and it's a problem which happens all the time in Tutu, the spawns are much tougher than in the original, consistantly. It spawns TWO wolves instead of one in that area nearby where Gorion died too, which is also just about impossible.
However, there have been a couple of things that weren't so great with BGT, namely I got ambushed on route to the Friendly Arm Inn for the first time and my lvl 1 mage was surrounded by some 6 archer bandits plus two Half-Orcs. Maybe just a little goddamn excessive??! I died before the narrator even got to "You have been waylaid...". I reloaded and haven't had that since but, it was an encounter which was IMPOSSIBLE to beat and which you have no control over, so those who play no-reload games should avoid perhaps.
But yeah overall I've found BGTs to be more inline with the original, which is motivating as I'm a first time user as BGT and everything is running real smooth too

[Icanus]

thats frustrating, i know - on the other hand, i like the idea that the party has to make a tactical withdraw from battles now and then in the beginning of the game, when your still a nobody who can't even beat a gibberling without being hit. Thats what roleplaying is all about, progressing from a weak noname to a sworld-wielding hero. I mean, why should you win EVERY battle? But then again, its hard to flee three wyverns and their spider friends when being held by their web-traps.