24 replies to this topic

[Eric P.]

Looks best for now. though scaling it into the Record screen would take away the Sword and Robes, which I feel exemplify her class well (Mage / Thief). The look in her eyes is perfect for contemplating the fight ahead. Saddest thing of all is how only half the face is seen, but I guess its not that different from Illuvi's current pic.

Other pics found along the way, just as links :
http://th05.devianta...gatecentral.jpg - almost perfect if facing Glaurung.. but no face

And typical "Female Elves" lol, as earlier discussed. Man, but woohoo (esp first pic)
http://img4.imagesha...15priqt08a3.jpg
http://davidjharmon....al_Elf-full.jpg
http://chaos.randomi...lf/Snow Elf.jpg - quite decent actually, just that Snow Elves have too little tint...

This portrait is beyond gorgeous...there's something very special about the feel of the entire composition. Even any cropped versions will be wonderful Where did it come from? Artist? It would be nice to see more work by the same person!

- E

[Zyraen]

@ipsissimus
Thanks for the links and effort much appreciated. That being said, unless there's a way to be more realistic, it would be difficult for them to be suitable given their style, as Silmarillion pics are largely more towards the "serious-fantasy" style of art (well, that's how I would call it, not sure is there actually a classification for that sort of thing rofl...)

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@Eric
Glad you like it, guess we'll stick to that one then. Prob update tonight.

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@Miloch
I might consider the nature of a half-orc to see how that might fit together with the plot, and where to insert the character. That's a good idea, I didn't really think of it, though I'm not sure if orcs would rape human females (I assume not the other way around...), but that might well lead to a character who might actually be on the side of the PC, yet not necessarily Good and hence providing a reasonable spread.

Thanks for heads up on the Romances, yes there are quite a few Romanceable, but back then there was a bunch of folks with interest. With current levels of interest it'll probably be reduced. Silmarillion is not that large a TC, effectively just 12 maps and a loose storyline, so it would be the interactions that carry the experience either as an immersion, failing which it'd just be another series of hack-n-slash situations.

As for the scope, this was originally stipulated in the Workroom

NPC Interactions
- each NPC will have at least 2-3 PC Banters
- each NPC will have at least 2 Banters each with at least 3 other NPCs, ie at least 6 NPC-NPC Banters
- each NPC will probably have at least 24 comments for the 12 maps, though some maps may have an NPC being completely silent - these comments will probably be done by ME, don't worry about them.
- romance tracks will probably have about 8-12 PC Banters at least
- I am unsure how "voiced" they will be

8-12 PC Banters is short by BG2 standards, but the romances are hopefully meant to be a tad more immersive, rather than semi-rail-roaded (which is BG2 style, the person talks, you select, one wrong move you're out, else you're just swept along)

Its definitely still very ambitious for one writer to try to pull off, so trimming will probably have to be done along the way.

If I recall right, originally, there were
- Males : Illuvi, Maric, Finrod
- Females : Myravin, Kyra, Imari

Later on Beleg (Male) was added as writer had some interest and had some good progress in doing a romance, I think. I still have most of her (stnemele's) romance talks on my harddrive, to be adapted. Turin was added more as something that suited his character. Not that he's romantic, but more that he is a dark passionate individual, prone to acting on spur of the moments, for most part feeling angsty and lonely and... well dig the whole teenage gig and toss it on... so its not surprising that he might take well at times, even possibly sleep with the PC, but I think he's the sort that will eventually withdraw to be left on his own romantically.

Each of the original Six carry a different aspect of romance that is supposed to be more reflective (at least in my eyes) to what I imagine of real life romances. some spoiler-ish details from workroom.

- Illuvi : Outwardly, Illuvi is nonchalant, offering advice but generally irreverent and tending to skip away from self-reflective questions, preferring to appear shallow and jovial. Internally he has a conflict within himself, hating himself for not being able to save his sister, and not treating her better when she yet lived, and his pride prevents him from addressing that matter directly, from facing himself. Action-wise, this translates into taking calculated risks and "challenging" himself to achieve more results with less resources, as is reasonable of course, but there's also a slight recklessness that hints a sublimal intention to eventually be put out of his self-loathing on the battlefield. He tends to treat the PC as a little sister, as a substitute, until he reconciles and comes to terms with himself, also comes to accept that he does indeed, love her. Modern references are of those who have done something wrong before, or was too busy to be there and care for a loved one, until he/she was gone, then it was too late. Themes towards forgiveness and self-acceptance.

- Maric : Maric appears to be an inspiring, picture-perfect paladin, a natural leader of men, a never-say-die hero. On the inside though, despair eats him up, and he has seen so many deaths of comrades, and is keenly aware that nothing he does can ever restore his house to its former glory. His main desire is perhaps born of a desire to honorably acquit himself of this black accursed world and leave behind his weary war-torn existence, and a hint is given in that his patron deity is the Valar Nienna, who presides over the Grief & Mourning. Romantically, he needs to live for something/someone again, and from there to learn to hope and find direction. Modern references include the man-in-the-street that has lost himself and is just toeing the line or occasionally relaxing, as seems appropriate. Thematically rediscovering hope and meaning in life, to dream again.

- Finrod : Finrod is an affable and social noble elf, possibly the most social of all the elven princes in Middle-Earth. Inside however he is insecure and distrustful from past betrayals, and also doubting all the qualities of intelligence, wisdom that others laud him for, as his actions have conflicted with his father and led to the death of all his brothers. It makes him question if it was all just his own pride all along. Romance wise, he is cautious and wary, despite seeming approachable and open, and doubting himself regularly. He needs to find his own place in the world again, and also to open up to accept others in his life once more. Modern terms refer to a jaded man wary of love and also his career achievements, or Mr Popular who believes that others want him only because of his looks / money rather than truly loving him. Themes involve opening up once more and believing firmly in himself again, instead of wavering in self-doubt.
Note that Finrod's romance is unique also in that it comes to a point of decision when he has to choose between his lover/fiance Amarie who never left Valinor, and the PC who he met only after he died.

- Myravin : Tight-lipped on emotions and task-oriented, Myravin is a very driven personality, but on the inside her drive is fueled by hatred and bitterness to avenge the loss of the majesty that was Gondolin. In meantime, she pours out all her energies in the war against Morgoth, and she is as ruthless as they come not out of enjoyment, but because that is the most sensible and logical choice, and to the tune of "sacrificing 10 is better than losing a 1000". She needs to respect someone and that special person to help her to step back outside of herself to rediscover how to feel again, and how to treasure other people. Her romance exemplifies the modern working man/woman that is consumed by career to the neglect of emotions, often ruthless, sometimes with some darker driving force beneath. Themes being rediscovery and learning to feel again.

- Kyra : Kyra wishes an ordinary, relatively carefree life but knows that with her extraordinary gifts and intelligence she is bound to serve as best as she can, taking on responsibilities she'd rather do without. She does this wearily, believing it is necessary for the good of her people, so carrying burdens of decisions beyond her age, and feels indecision or guilt when something goes awry. For most part, she puts her own happiness aside for the sake of others. Romance involves guiding her to find that there is value in her as a person, not just as a counsellor / adviser, but as a woman / girl, to see her worth outside of what she needs to do. In so doing come to terms that she does need not be mutually exclusive with her own happiness with the right companions. Modern similarities are the delicate stage of people fearful of launching out after 2 decades of education, or someone busily working to support loved ones and forgetting self. Themes being strength through growing to embrace responsibilities and to adjusting one's hopes to accommodate reality.

- Imari : Imari seeks acceptance and recognition, the neglected sibling that strove hard, achieved some status, but was caught in the shadow of her older brother Illuvi and never quite got out of it - at least, not until until she sacrificed her and her troops so that Illuvi could escape with the "royalty" Elwing, Celeborn, Galadriel safely. Inside, she is lonely and looking for affirmation, and there is also an emptiness that exists now when so many of those she had looked up to, had strove hard to impress, are dead, and the kingdom she had fought for (and died for) is gone. Romance wise, she has to learn to break out of a dependency and need to impress others, and believe that she is already accepted, to find her own peace and happiness in self-confidence from within herself. Modern references of the child neglected by working parents and striving hard for recognition, and though capable, intelligent and well-respected by peers, never seems to worthy enough through how (he/she thinks) others perceive him. Thematically its about ceasing to look outward, but rather gaining self-acknowledgement and self-confidence within oneself first.

As we know, in a computer game there is a limited development scope for the PC, apart from communicating preferences, but the NPC can be developed to deliver an OOC message (held by the author towards real life), or to draw the PC into the world. In this case, all of the above Six are meant to do that, each a different albeit with some unavoidable overlap of the negative feelings common in that era.

The Six romances are each in some sense, less of a romance than a representation of a character's psyche going through the events of Silmarillion, part of what is intended to be immersive, an expression of individual spirit being triumphant despite the oppression of the times. This also fits the consistent theme of Silmarillion's plot where heroes are eventually slain but their spirit is celebrated (well, sorta). I have tried my best to select themes that not only relate to the storyline but relate to real life modern times (well, at least what I have observed in various people), a message that is also meant to encourage the player OOCly.

Additional Romances are less solidly themed on a modern concept / overall direction, they seem more lighthearted but roughly this is what is in mind as I understand it

- Beleg : as far as I can gather, its a carefree, happy-go-lucky bachelor who finding someone he admires, saves him, and looks up to, eventually comes to term with loving the PC. I would have to review the written lovetalks to see if this is in line.

- Turin : this is more of a bad-boy romance. a brooding, dark, angsty relationship, just for fun and in line with the times.

PS : I'm writing this also as a refresher for myself ^^;;; and reasoning that hey, the interest in this mod isn't much at this point, so no harm mentioning here.

Edited by Zyraen, 29 June 2010 - 08:29 PM.

[Miloch]

I might consider the nature of a half-orc to see how that might fit together with the plot, and where to insert the character. That's a good idea, I didn't really think of it, though I'm not sure if orcs would rape human females (I assume not the other way around...), but that might well lead to a character who might actually be on the side of the PC, yet not necessarily Good and hence providing a reasonable spread.

Unfortunately, I think rape might indeed be accountable for some orc-human unions. When I first developed 'Miloch' as a character (long before FR or anything of the sort existed), his own mother was a dowager duchess who was ravaged by an invading orcish tribe - she died in childbirth. Consequently her half-orc son, though raised partially by orcs, does not like orcs much (even less after his 'mother' appeared to him as a ghost to reveal some details of his birth).

Having said that, such a theme is probably uncomfortable to mod players, despite the fact it might lend it self to some intricate dialogue. There are of course other ways half-orcs get spawned. Some may happen through 'willing' unions with evil (and no doubt, ugly and desperate) men with orcish women. After all, what with orcs being used as Morgoth's (and later Sauron's) cannon fodder, there no doubt must be far more orcish women than men around looking for potential mates, and not finding any of their own species, well, 'hybridisation' runs its course.

Also, it is well-known in Tolkien lore that Saruman bred half-orcs from humans and uruk-hai (who may themselves have had human blood). It is similarly well-known that Morgoth bred orcs in the first place from elves, so it is not unlikely that he experimented with other crossbreeds, even in the absence of "nature" taking its course. Such an escapee from Morgoth's prisons might indeed have some interesting dialogue .

The romances do look interesting, but I think it would make sense to develop one or two to begin with, then once interest builds (and it will once you've got those in place) start to work on others.

[Zyraen]

On the Half-Orc origins, indeed its an interesting topic.

Canon aside (I understand Saruman was a pioneer, but prior that may have been occasional "natural hybridisation") its hard to imagine how the party of elite commanders that form the cast of Silmarillion would see a half-orc as anything but at best pitiable worm, and certainly it is that unlikely that he has had much experience on the field except as a Bandit (and hence a third Fighter/Thief, which really is kinda extra...) . Khorin himself is already in an immensely bad position what with Dwarves having played a part in the run-up to the Fall of Doriath. That said all these intra-party historical bad blood would be immensely amusing and interesting interactions

On the second note, yes the Romances are planned roughly in reducing order of priority as follows...
- Illuvi : he's the only character I was originally writing, and had some progress on him some time ago. I enjoy getting into the character, only thing is that I tend to write him a little too seriously.
- Kyra : she's the female romance I would most like to see happen, though unfortunately it is difficult for me to enter that psyche. I have... close... encounters with many pple like her in real life.
- Myravin : her situation is probably one of the more fascinating and modern characters around, plus I have to say that being a Viconia, my favourite Bioware personality, and Kiyone, my favourite modded female (shameless plug, I know) is a big plus. possibly among the most noticeable modern syndromes which makes it easy for people to relate to.
- Maric : it'll be a bit harder for me to get under the skin of this guy, but he should be relatively easy to write once his theme is established

Finrod and Imari are lower priorities. Finrod is fine without a romance, being a major Silmarillion character, and Imari has sufficient room for showing her emotional development without actually being in a romance.

How do you think interest can be generated? Leaking banters out?

[Miloch]

Canon aside (I understand Saruman was a pioneer, but prior that may have been occasional "natural hybridisation") its hard to imagine how the party of elite commanders that form the cast of Silmarillion would see a half-orc as anything but at best pitiable worm

Actually, half-orcs have higher stats (both minimums and maximums) in all things but wisdom (oddly), probably due to "hybrid vigour" - the same thing probably responsible for uruk-hai being more powerful than regular orcs. Note that while most half-orcs can blend in with and pass for orcs, a good 10% or more can also pass for humans, and might even be living in human communities relatively unnoticed. Remember in Bree, Bill Ferny's friend who looked "more than half like a goblin" according to Sam Gamgee?

and certainly it is that unlikely that he has had much experience on the field except as a Bandit (and hence a third Fighter/Thief, which really is kinda extra...)

Maybe not "trained soldier" experience, but half-orcs do tend towards the barbarian class, which has some advantages over regular fighters.

How do you think interest can be generated? Leaking banters out?

The best way is by finishing and releasing at least an alpha or beta. Until then, it might not seem like there's a lot of interest but that doesn't mean there isn't. Probably because these forums are littered with half-finished or abandoned mods. Then when you release something, your download counter will go to 1000+ in one day, whereas before all you heard was *crickets chirping* in your forum .