4 replies to this topic

[bigmoshi]

My sixth sense is telling me that some pple may have misunderstood my intentions for a standardised megamod, and somehow have the impression that I'm telling others my installation is the "best of the best", and anything else is screwed. I'd like to clarify that I have never claimed such a thing. Plainly because there isn't any megamod that can be problem free, since everyone is modding in their own way, at least for the near future. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try finding something that works to an acceptable degree.

The reason why I am reluctant to cross over the boundary towards supporting customisation simply because its beyond my ability to do so. Obviously, mega-mod installation is an extremely sensitive & time-consuming process. The smallest detail can destroy a whole day's effort of installation. Perhaps I'm dumb, but I spent over a week on my first mega-mod installation - just to get it installed right. Not forgetting, there weren't really much instructions then as everyone was just dumping weidu.logs except for a rare few. And, I wasn't prepared to read more than I should. Anyway, when I got into my first "perfectly installed" game, the NPCs in Candlekeep were just not speaking to me. Nice.

So finally, when I finally got my mega-mod working, I was elated. So I thought, hey why not document all these fixes since they were still fresh in my mind. I wrote the manual guide, went through about five more manual installations following line by line of my own documented instructions just to make sure I didn't miss out anything. Otherwise, people would just curse and swear if the last mod just wouldn't install.

Then, problems started arising because ppl started tweaking this and that, and everyone was starting to play a different game again. Problem back to square one. So I decided on X'mas eve to write an auto-installer for dummies. I spent christmas day writing a simple installer with the same intention towards standardisation. Now, translate that 1 week of manual installation time to 2-3hrs, saving almost 1 week of installation time, better spent on finding gameplay bugs --> 100 ppl playing a consistent game = 100 weeks of debugging time. And, you don't have to fix a dialogue bug a 100 times, because 1 person fixes it and everyone gets it. Simple arithmetic.

As for the choices of mods, I wasn't really choosy. I just took the weidu.log that I deemed most stable from my own perspective so that I could play my game as soon as possible before school started. Do not get me wrong that I'm anti-customisation. In fact, I strongly feel that customisation would be ideal. Just that I'm starting to wonder will it happen soon? Even when someone takes time to think through and write a long long problem-solving approach to customisation, no one really bothers.

Now here's a belief. There are tonnes of pple like me who aren't modders. They just want to play something, anything.
I think we should help them.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Yes, and I would like to thank for your efforts, for you have not done good job, but a wonderful one.

Now, I hope you'll continue as I shall one day embark on the journey across the great ocean of mods, and I hope that there will be people like you, guiding our way through the storms of insects.

But now back to the real topic at hand; that is standardation within Mega Moding. But the first problem is already that, as there is no bestway-onlyway approach for the problems, as for then we can't make every mod work it's own magic on their own, so we had to make a temperary solution for a problem that could not be even measured, we came out with a wonderfully nice and innovative way called; Trial and Error.

Now, you succeed in making a mod combination that can be played through cause other people had done the same and succeed. So you have a road map that shows you a way to a destination of your own making, but it doesn't show the other roads or where they end up with.

So... what if we would like to go some where else? We go poking around and end up lost, most of the time! This is cause of the way the moding is made, every individual mod changes something, most of the time, and some change everything...

And maybe the biggest problem is that there is actually two ways of going around a few problems(like compatibility with BGI, TuTU, BGII:SoA, BGII:ToB and BGT), you avoid them, or you jump around them. For example the enemy AI, you make it better, or you make it smarter. You can make a different version for all, or you can make one big gigantic enormeus one that crushes under it's own weight or it's stumped around as if it weren't ever there, and most of us don't want that, so it has to be adjusted to be in the middle and the losses can be quite severe.
The thing here is, that for some, there is a better solution, as the enemy AI is a huge component, it can be seperated to parts that work wonderfully with each others, and don't cause problems. But it might cause problems other where...
Like say SCS. DavidWallace made the first one for BGI, TuTu and others gave it a room in the BGI part of the BGT. He then combined the thing back to the original version with the idea that it could be uninstalled from BGT, so the SCSII would be installed at the last portion of the switch from BG1 to BG2(the encounter with Belt). But can that be done without screwing up the installation and save games, yes... actually it can!

Now does you installation order take this into account? No-o-ou.
And as a side note, nearly every other BGI part of BGT mod can be uninstalled without any serious loss of things, other than items...but as they are lost anyways... And the BGII part mods can be installed at this point so it won't cause problems, as BGT can adjust to the changes too, or so I have heard.

Edit: But does the twin installation procedure help at all? Well it should... But there is bad sides to it too, and then you have to remember more than a few things!

It gives you a lot you can scrap from the game as you build one installation for the specific purpose of going through most of all the mods. It can save hard drive space, as you can uninstall the mods that aren't used yet or anymore. And it gives a few area files that are used by the both BG1 and BG2 mods, more specifically the NeJ, and maybe the best thing is, that you can start the game now, and play the BG1 part of the game, while you are still waiting the newest release of the miraclemod that revolutionarices the whole planedweller's existance.

The bad sides are that even though you can get rid of many mods this way, you have to remember the once you have used that need to be reinstalled, the fix packs, kit mods, BGT romance mods, etc.
The even worse thing is, that you you have no support from really none of the the communities... but then again, your installation looks alike a TuTu for the BG1 portion with a few flares of bright light. But how to make an installation guide? For now, you are on your own! So it's back to the wonderfully nice and innovative way called; Trial and Error.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 27 January 2008 - 01:19 AM.

[bigmoshi]

Hey Jarno, nice to see where you are coming from.

Customisation as I have pointed out in my original post is the ideal & yes we should head for customisation. Well then, trial and error does seem like the best solution. But that is a time consuming process. The exclusivity principle would apply because I'd be pointing at the new guy saying "pick up modding if you want to play a megamod". Sometimes it's better to be realistic, not everyone has the aptitude of erebusant, ascension, azazello, leonardo etc etc and the whole chin gang in modding. They took years to master it. Sure, reading the binary code in your IE files is easy, but really understanding tp2 coding is pretty different - thats where the modexperts come in.

Coming from the perspective of a newbie (ie. me), the objective for my first megamod was simply to grab the mod-installation that seemed most right. I just didn't want to have that 'opportunity' to bang my head if my game failed beyond hope after 243.3 hours of playing. Yes, there was a risk that it would screw up, but 1yr++ of testing & over 5k+ downloads did mean something to me. If certain mods had not been included in my installation, it doesn't mean its not good. It was just that I felt no need to go commando.

Hence, I'd like to reinforce the point that I have never said that other installations would "screw up". If such an impression had been made, do forgive me as I have never meant it that way. In any case, I do feel that players who are totally not interested in modding or weidu installs, ought to play mega-mods in the simplest way. Why else were they created for?

PS Jarno: Btw, what's the "twin" installation about?

[Jarno Mikkola]

I do feel that players who are totally not interested in modding or weidu installs, ought to play mega-mods in the simplest way. Why else were they created for?

To scare people.

PS Jarno: Btw, what's the "twin" installation about?

Didn't I just tell you, the idea is to have basically two seperate WeiDU installations, one that can be played before the BG1 to BG2 move, and one that can be played from it. Just like TuTu.
You'll just can just copy the saves, or uninstall the first and install the second...

[bigmoshi]

I do feel that players who are totally not interested in modding or weidu installs, ought to play mega-mods in the simplest way. Why else were they created for?

To scare people.

Heehee how true.

PS Jarno: Btw, what's the "twin" installation about?

Didn't I just tell you, the idea is to have basically two seperate WeiDU installations, one that can be played before the BG1 to BG2 move, and one that can be played from it. Just like TuTu.
You'll just can just copy the saves, or uninstall the first and install the second...

Oh that was describing it Anyway, your summary is much clearer Thanks!