25 replies to this topic

[bigmoshi]

Project Title (Tentative): Infinity Xplorer 2008

Code Name: LittleIX

Status: In-Progress
Language: C#

Introductions:

Was playing around to design a new game editor to practise a bit of coding. The editor is supposed to be user oriented, and I'll be trying to keep some of the good points in the old IE. Its written in C#, and is very preliminary.

Basic Design - Framework:

• Look & feel to extend on IExplorer's ease of use design
  
• Able to view / edit IE file resources
  
• Able to switch among game directories - Berelinde (current feature in old IE)
  
• Able to work on multiple resources file documents concurrently
  
• Able to click & link to relevant resources - (powerful feature in old IE)
  
• Improve dialog fluency - Ascension64

Basic Design - Specific Features:

• Display scrolling X and Y coordinates for area maps - Conrad
  
• Wavc conversion to wav formats - Berelinde
  
• Able to personalise bookmarks for important resource files

Extended Design - Proposed Framework:

• Able to perform checks on validity of files
  
• Integrated Modding/Debugging Environment for mega-mods
  
• Able to autogenerate simple tp2 commands via file comparisons - Wizworm [refer to Baronius' tp2 generator - cmorgan]
  
• Traification tool? - cmorgan [refer to ClanDLAN's traification tool]

Proposed Scope of Work:

• Phase 1 - To build the front end for Basic Design
  
• Phase 2 - To build the validity engine checks to identify unreferenced resources etc.
  
• Phase 3 - To do more things by analyzing mega-mod installation resource histories using mod-tracker.exe
  
• Phase 4 - To auto-generate tp2 files via file comparison (feasibility study)

Well, the intention is to open the floor to generate a list of possible features to improve modding life, so that it would be possible to incorporate them in the program design before going further. Right now I'm still writing the decoders for the resource files using iesdp. Also, its very Bg2 oriented at the moment, as I'm still not quite sure what the actual differences are between PST/IWD/IWD2 etc, are.

Limitations:
Built on dotnet framework, so may not be usable on MacOSX unless using vmwares I think.

It will be made open source later if anyone is interested, but likely only after stablizing the first release.

Still very preliminary in Phase 1, but here's a glimpse of how LittleIX it looks like now.

Edited by bigmoshi, 26 January 2008 - 02:37 AM.

[Kaeloree]

Great! Very excited to see how this progresses...

[Ascension64]

Great! Very excited to see how this progresses...

You know, one thing I'd always wanted is to play a dialogue directly in an editor in almost exactly the same way that you go through dialogue in the game. NearInfinity does this somewhat, but its really dodgy and not fluent. It should work something like:

1. At the top level, choose any state to start from (i.e. has a non-null trigger associated with it)
2. Plays the dialogue by showing the dialogue text and a numbered list of options, or continue/end dialogue
3. Numbered list of options obviously won't be filtered, but shows all transition triggers (if present)
4. Record of dialogue track, a bit like the scrolling up effect in-game

Don't know if it is even worth it, but currently for me, I find it extremely difficult to read any string of dialogue with fluency unless it is in-game.


Looking great, otherwise.

[WizWom]

A diff & tp2 generator! Ideally, I can hack up a working copy, select the files I want to be in the mod (changed by it or new), point it to the base directory, and let 'er rip, making a tp2 and setup directory tree for weidu.

I wouldn't expect a first pass to do existing counts of effects and stuff, but that is best practice.

[cmorgan]

cool stuff - for additional ideas, you may want to look at Baronius' tp2 generator at BWL and ClanDLAN's traification tool. Not, of course, to rip code, but to see some approaches folks have used to do certain aspects of the same idea. The other two traditional tools are DLTCEP (at G3 now) and NearInfinity (PPG and SorceForge). Each one has a slightly different approach, and many folks use a combination of tools.

[bigmoshi]

cool stuff - for additional ideas, you may want to look at Baronius' tp2 generator at BWL and ClanDLAN's traification tool. Not, of course, to rip code, but to see some approaches folks have used to do certain aspects of the same idea. The other two traditional tools are DLTCEP (at G3 now) and NearInfinity (PPG and SorceForge). Each one has a slightly different approach, and many folks use a combination of tools.

Hey neat stuff, I only have been using NI & DLTCEP, though NI seems easier to use for me as DLTCEP has rather advanced stuff.

I'm a real newbie at tp2, so that Baronius tp2 generator would be extremely useful. TY!

As for traification, no idea what it does but is there a website for that? I couldn't find a correct link on google for "traification tool" or "ClanDLAN's traification tool"

Ripping code is not possible as the rewrite in c# would be using different libraries. Feelwise, I'm hoping to stick to the pascal-IE but add in features that are missing. For now I'm just tearing my hair out with IESDP!! But honestly its quite fun, no wonder you get are hooked to modding for so many years.

[cmorgan]

yep - it is addictive, even (or especially ) for us non-programmers, too - it is kind of the equivalent of finding out magic spells really work, and you too can cast 'em, if you study hard enough and mess about...

The Clan DLAN materials for .tra files I will look for when I get home, and post links to the forums, unless someone beats me to it. It isn't listed the same way as I am describing it, but that's what the tool does.

[SConrad]

I have one big feature request - when viewing an area, the possibility to see X and Y coordinates. Currently it's possible (in InfExp) to do that on the minimap, but it would be great to do it on the large map as well. Saves a lot of trouble when it comes to placing NPCs.

[cmorgan]

I think this is the link:

http://www.gameapps.com/

[bigmoshi]

yep - it is addictive, even (or especially ) for us non-programmers, too - it is kind of the equivalent of finding out magic spells really work, and you too can cast 'em, if you study hard enough and mess about...

The Clan DLAN materials for .tra files I will look for when I get home, and post links to the forums, unless someone beats me to it. It isn't listed the same way as I am describing it, but that's what the tool does.

I think this is the link:

http://www.gameapps.com/

Thanks! I'll look through it.

[bigmoshi]

I have one big feature request - when viewing an area, the possibility to see X and Y coordinates. Currently it's possible (in InfExp) to do that on the minimap, but it would be great to do it on the large map as well. Saves a lot of trouble when it comes to placing NPCs.

Yes, will do. Not to mention modding, I even had that problem while writing the x.y locs for the walkthrough as well. Thanks!

[SConrad]

Thank you!

[Ascension64]

Improve dialog fluency - Ascension64

I think you should keep the original InfExp format for viewing dialogues (since some people will like that and it is similar to the way that other games' dialogue editing works. I was looking more for a 'preview' function (which can be added on completely separately) that allows you to 'play' the dialogue like it does in-game (with a few differences, of course).

[bigmoshi]

Improve dialog fluency - Ascension64

I think you should keep the original InfExp format for viewing dialogues (since some people will like that and it is similar to the way that other games' dialogue editing works. I was looking more for a 'preview' function (which can be added on completely separately) that allows you to 'play' the dialogue like it does in-game (with a few differences, of course).

Do you mean like:

PersonA: Hey whatcha you doing? [Choose option below]

• Can't you see I'm sleeping?
  
• Not much, you?

PersonB: Not much, you? [Choose option below]
....

[Ascension64]

Improve dialog fluency - Ascension64

I think you should keep the original InfExp format for viewing dialogues (since some people will like that and it is similar to the way that other games' dialogue editing works. I was looking more for a 'preview' function (which can be added on completely separately) that allows you to 'play' the dialogue like it does in-game (with a few differences, of course).

Do you mean like:

PersonA: Hey whatcha you doing? [Choose option below]

• Can't you see I'm sleeping?
  
• Not much, you?

PersonB: Not much, you? [Choose option below]
....

Yeah, but the only catch is triggers and things...

PersonA: Hey whatchya doing?

• IsValidForPartyDialogue("Viconia")InParty("Viconia") [CONTINUE]
  
• OR(2)!IsValidForPartyDialogue("Viconia")!InParty("Viconia") Can't you see I'm sleeping?
  
• OR(2)!IsValidForPartyDialogue("Viconia")!InParty("Viconia") Not much ,you?

VICONJ: I know this ibblith for a swine! Don't talk to him!

• Can't you see I'm sleeping?
  
• Not much ,you?

Probably better to tooltip the triggers, or put in a dynamically updated trigger box when you highlight a particular option. Any actions as a result might need similar treatment.

Anyway, as I said, this will probably only be useful to me and no one else, so not sure whether it is worth doing.

Edited by Ascension64, 24 January 2008 - 10:31 PM.

[Kaeloree]

I'd love that feature, as well - so you're not the only one! The chance to see dialogue in the in-game format would be extremely helpful when writing it, to find out how well it works and such.

[bigmoshi]

Okay, I roughly get it. I'll pester you again for more details when I get to that again. Thanks!

[cmorgan]

Wow - if you seriously are rewriting this as a major "everything" editor/viewer, that would be an ideal addition -

being able to see "valid links" or "invalid links" path mapping that way would be invaluable. Don't know how to screen out or deal with the InPary/!InParty or CD_S_NV checks to apply to the dialog, but even if that is not possible and you get the behavior described above, you would save massive amounts of in-game testing time for testing logic chains and viewing ingame dialog behavior. Kind of like having a real "prieview window" on animation tools, allowing changes to show close to what the player sees immediately.

that would be seriously cool.

[bigmoshi]

Wow - if you seriously are rewriting this as a major "everything" editor/viewer, that would be an ideal addition -

being able to see "valid links" or "invalid links" path mapping that way would be invaluable. Don't know how to screen out or deal with the InPary/!InParty or CD_S_NV checks to apply to the dialog, but even if that is not possible and you get the behavior described above, you would save massive amounts of in-game testing time for testing logic chains and viewing ingame dialog behavior. Kind of like having a real "prieview window" on animation tools, allowing changes to show close to what the player sees immediately.

that would be seriously cool.

InParty probably can be solved if the user could input in a textbox or something the npcs you are simulating to be in the party. Have some draft ideas but gotta test it out. As for CD_S_NV, still no idea what this means but will learn along the way.

PS: Btw, could you pass me your weidu.log, cos I'd like to fix that mod-tracker tool and integrate it to trace the history of changes made to resource files during a mega-mod installation. From there, I'll see if any useful features can be added. Thanks

[cmorgan]

(sure thing, but it will be some time - cleaning and defregging and doing wekly maintainance before retesting the tool to see if I still have the errors, and setting up for a series of fluid state tests - sorry for the delay!)

Sorry for the silly shortcuts - these are new and more robust replacements for IsValidForPartyDialog() checks, to determine if someone can actually participate or not. An NPC can be in the party and dead, and the game doesn't like making the dead speak out of turn... or at all!

~!StateCheck("myNPC",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)~ returns true if the NPC is fine, not silenced, not dead, etc., etc -
~StateCheck("myNPC",CD_STATE_NOTVALID)~ returns true if they are not fine, or have been silenced, or they are dead, etc.


and you just got the workaround anyway, by allowing a checkbox for "Who is in the party" . Just extend it to

"Who is in the party? Are they alive? Are they dead? Are they Silenced?" type stuff:

Player's Party (Tutu/BGT BG Content):
X Imoen X OK O Dead O Silenced O Not In Area
O Kivan O OK O Dead O Silenced O Not In Area
X SharTeel O OK X Dead O Silenced O Not In Area
O Kagain O OK O Dead O Silenced O Not In Area
O Yeslick O OK O Dead O Silenced O Not In Area
X Viconia X OK O Dead O Silenced O Not In Area

Player Conditions
O Male O Female O human O etc.,
to preview conditions...

hey, this is just brainstorming, you know - I don't even know ifit is posible to create a simulation routine which would do that; basically running the dialogue with preset conditions. The list

Edited by cmorgan, 25 January 2008 - 09:43 AM.