55 replies to this topic

[bigmoshi]

Okay, will look into the BCS files. What about the those .BS files in <scripts> do? Are they important at all, as in do they actually affect the game? Or do they essentially mean the common "bs" term?

BS files are the AI scripts which you can assign to your partymembers via customize -> script option in the game.

Done BCS, not sure what to do with BS though.

Anything else besides the strrefs that will affect the copy/pasting issue like (1)?

Not sure, I'll check and get back to you.

BTW, would it be possible to group the files which are presently in the override folder in a separate "override" category, just like Near Infinity does? This would also prevent duplication when a single file exists both in the biffs and the override folder.

Yeps, thats possible, but personally I felt it easier to see it altogether while writing my walkthrough, because the files will be in alphabetical order. Even they duplicate, they will show the same info. Its only a couple of lines to remove the dups, but that would really increase loading time. the design wasn't really meant sorting like that. On the other hand, it was designed for efficiency, so things were only loaded when necessary. I was thinking of recoding the prog in c#, that would give me more leeway to do somethings. Still thinking about it.

[bigmoshi]

Hi Avenger, for custom (non chitin.key) AI scripts are you referring to bcs/bs files? sorry, I'm still trying to get used to the different file formats from IESDP.

Done. see 0.82-release4.zip

I was referring to custom BCS files. For example, if I open a mod CRE in Infinity Explorer which has a custom (non chitin.key) AI script assigned to it and click on the script link in the AI tab nothing happens.

Also for the script decompiler, in what sense is it outdated? Do you mean its unable to parse certain scripts? Any egs? I could try to take another look. Thanks!

For example, Infinity Explorer decompiles any strings present into scripts directly into textual lines instead of placing them in comments which makes copy/paste from it fairly unreliable. For comparison, try viewing USEITEM.BCS in Infinity Explorer and Near Infinity and notice the difference.

This is from Infinity Explorer:

IF
	HPPercentLT(Myself,50)
	HasItem("potn55",Myself)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		DisplayStringHead(Myself,'quaffs a potion')
		UseItem("potn55",Myself)
		Continue()
END

And this is from Near Infinity:

IF
	HPPercentLT(Myself,50)
	HasItem("potn55",Myself) // Potion of Superior Healing
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		DisplayStringHead(Myself,46150) // quaffs a potion
		UseItem("potn55",Myself) // Potion of Superior Healing
		Continue()
END

Personally, I find the Near Infinity version much more descriptive, and I'd like Infinity Explorer to be able to do this as well, if possible.

Done the strref thing. For the itm ref, not done needs quite a bit of rework.

[Kulyok]

Unfortunately, the latest version I downloaded shows two dialogue files for each and every character(not just mod ones), which is rather inconvenient. So I think I'll stick with the previous one(the first one you posted; 0.81) for the time being.

[bigmoshi]

Unfortunately, the latest version I downloaded shows two dialogue files for each and every character(not just mod ones), which is rather inconvenient. So I think I'll stick with the previous one(the first one you posted; 0.81) for the time being.

Oops. was that so? Okay I'll go check it. TY

UPDATE: Hrms. I'm not seeing that though, in fact I haven't changed anything near the dialogs since v0.81. I tried it using 0.84a-r4. Could you grab a few dialogs having this prob? Perhaps then I could identify the prob. Thanks!

Btw, another a simple way to double check is to rename your override-directory to say <XOverride> then run the IE. and see if there are dups. See no dups >_<

Edited by bigmoshi, 12 January 2008 - 05:18 AM.

[aVENGER]

Done BCS, not sure what to do with BS though.

The structure of BS files is identical to the structure of BCS files. Anyway, these are usually displayed as CLASS scripts on the creature tab if you open a saved game and select a party member.

Yeps, thats possible, but personally I felt it easier to see it altogether while writing my walkthrough, because the files will be in alphabetical order

You could make it a toggleable setting, like Near Infinity does. Check the three "Options -> Show Override Files" settings in NI.

Done the strref thing. For the itm ref, not done needs quite a bit of rework.

Great! BTW, I've done some more checks and it seems that Infinity Explorer doesn't have support for some of the ToB only scripting commands, for example the ReallyForceSpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target) action. Perhaps you could point it to pull these commands directly from the relevant IDS files (ACTION.IDS, TRIGGER.IDS ...etc.).


EDIT - I just noticed that the state checks and most other IDS parameters no longer display in text but rather in numerical values. For example:

!StateCheck(Myself,STATE_INVISIBLE)

is now displayed as:

!StateCheck(Myself,16)

Could you restore this to the previous setting? It's a bit harder to keep the overview this way.

Edited by aVENGER, 12 January 2008 - 05:57 AM.

[bigmoshi]

Yeps, thats possible, but personally I felt it easier to see it altogether while writing my walkthrough, because the files will be in alphabetical order

You could make it a toggleable setting, like Near Infinity does. Check the three "Options -> Show Override Files" settings in NI.

Actually, I was considering that besides the dialog pathing & click-links, IE is seriously quite outdated as compared to the newer editors. Especially seems like even the media and stuff are broken.

I had been thinking of rewriting a cleaner version of IE in C# to practise some coding. Cos I was thinking if I spent say 3-4mths on this to clean this src up, it might be more worthwhile rewriting the scode with a newer foundation. So i'll put this toggle button on hold for new GUI. Got a wishlist?

Done the strref thing. For the itm ref, not done needs quite a bit of rework.

Great! BTW, I've done some more checks and it seems that Infinity Explorer doesn't have support for some of the ToB only scripting commands, for example the ReallyForceSpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target) action. Perhaps you could point it to pull these commands directly from the relevant IDS files (ACTION.IDS, TRIGGER.IDS ...etc.).

I've got to look into this. I suppose the tob commands are on IESDP?

EDIT - I just noticed that the state checks and most other IDS parameters no longer display in text but rather in numerical values. For example:

!StateCheck(Myself,STATE_INVISIBLE)

is now displayed as:

!StateCheck(Myself,16)

Could you restore this to the previous setting? It's a bit harder to keep the overview this way.

Oh, I didn't realise that these are considered as strrefs as well, I thought they were commands.
Wait, are they supposed to be in the numerical values for cut-pasting? or are they supposed to be in word form?

Sorry, I'm really lost on modding syntax. Still learning along the way.

One more thing, did you get the same problem as reported by Kulyok on the duplications even for items not in the override directory?

Edited by bigmoshi, 12 January 2008 - 06:25 AM.

[aVENGER]

I had been thinking of rewriting a cleaner version of IE in C# to practise some coding. Cos I was thinking if I spent say 3-4mths on this to clean this src up, it might be more worthwhile rewriting the scode with a newer foundation.

Hmm, perhaps that would be the best. BTW, would that still be in line with GPL2?

I've got to look into this. I suppose the tob commands are on IESDP?

Yes, they are all listed there.

Oh, I didn't realise that these are considered as strrefs as well, I thought they were commands.
Wait, are they supposed to be in the numerical values for cut-pasting? or are they supposed to be in word form?

Both should work equally well, however it's easier on the eyes to have the state names displayed as text.

One more thing, did you get the same problem as reported by Kulyok on the duplications even for items not in the override directory?

Nope, I only get duplicate entries for files which appear both in the override folder and the original biffs. However, I noticed that the file called dialogcpy.tlk remains even after Infinity Explorer is closed. I assume this was not intended?

[bigmoshi]

I had been thinking of rewriting a cleaner version of IE in C# to practise some coding. Cos I was thinking if I spent say 3-4mths on this to clean this src up, it might be more worthwhile rewriting the scode with a newer foundation.

Hmm, perhaps that would be the best. BTW, would that still be in line with GPL2?

No that won't even apply, cos its right from scratch. Managed to write some general parsers to read infinityengine files formats this afternoon. After I get all the formats right, then it will be easier to do stuff eg. bookmarking, etc.

I've got to look into this. I suppose the tob commands are on IESDP?

Yes, they are all listed there.

Okay will take a look.

Oh, I didn't realise that these are considered as strrefs as well, I thought they were commands.
Wait, are they supposed to be in the numerical values for cut-pasting? or are they supposed to be in word form?

Both should work equally well, however it's easier on the eyes to have the state names displayed as text.

Fixed that with R5

One more thing, did you get the same problem as reported by Kulyok on the duplications even for items not in the override directory?

Nope, I only get duplicate entries for files which appear both in the override folder and the original biffs. However, I noticed that the file called dialogcpy.tlk remains even after Infinity Explorer is closed. I assume this was not intended?

Actually the way IE was designed had pro & cons, which was to read the dialog.tlk only when necessary. But normally I don't recommend that. I left it the copy there because I didn't want to spend time writing those functions, since you guys will open it up again and create the file again >_<. But as long as there is a working usable copy (esp the dialog & links) to last a couple months until I can hopefully find time to work out a stable new version

[aVENGER]

No that won't even apply, cos its right from scratch. Managed to write some general parsers to read infinityengine files formats this afternoon. After I get all the formats right, then it will be easier to do stuff eg. bookmarking, etc.

Sounds great! BTW, I'd still contact the original author before doing the recode, if nothing else than out of courtesy. I think he wont mind the recode since he practically disowned Infinity Explorer on the sourceforge page, but you should still try to reach him just to be completely on the safe side.

Actually the way IE was designed had pro & cons, which was to read the dialog.tlk only when necessary. But normally I don't recommend that. I left it the copy there because I didn't want to spend time writing those functions, since you guys will open it up again and create the file again >_<. But as long as there is a working usable copy (esp the dialog & links) to last a couple months until I can hopefully find time to work out a stable new version

I'm sure the new version will be well worth the wait.

BTW, if you are looking for hosting or possibly a forum of your own, contact one of the SHS/PPG/G3 administrators. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help.

[bigmoshi]

No that won't even apply, cos its right from scratch. Managed to write some general parsers to read infinityengine files formats this afternoon. After I get all the formats right, then it will be easier to do stuff eg. bookmarking, etc.

Sounds great! BTW, I'd still contact the original author before doing the recode, if nothing else than out of courtesy. I think he wont mind the recode since he practically disowned Infinity Explorer on the sourceforge page, but you should still try to reach him just to be completely on the safe side.

Yeps, I'll be sure to do that when the time comes, else i'll be poked left, right & center by everyone here There will be especially be some concerns if i wanted to use the same name.

Actually the way IE was designed had pro & cons, which was to read the dialog.tlk only when necessary. But normally I don't recommend that. I left it the copy there because I didn't want to spend time writing those functions, since you guys will open it up again and create the file again >_<. But as long as there is a working usable copy (esp the dialog & links) to last a couple months until I can hopefully find time to work out a stable new version

I'm sure the new version will be well worth the wait.

BTW, if you are looking for hosting or possibly a forum of your own, contact one of the SHS/PPG/G3 administrators. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to help.

Thanks! They were really helpful, just that I wanted to work out some concrete plans before committing on a project like this.

Btw, need some help for the item below:

Great! BTW, I've done some more checks and it seems that Infinity Explorer doesn't have support for some of the ToB only scripting commands, for example the ReallyForceSpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target) action. Perhaps you could point it to pull these commands directly from the relevant IDS files (ACTION.IDS, TRIGGER.IDS ...etc.).

Apparently, he uses the ids in your override directory for this. But the problem was that the same ID was used for two different Actions. For example, which ones should I take? the RES ones?
181 ReallyForceSpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
181 ReallyForceSpell(O:Target,I:Spell*Spell)
318 ForceSpellRangeRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
318 ForceSpellRange(O:Target,I:Spell*Spell)

[aVENGER]

Apparently, he uses the ids in your override directory for this. But the problem was that the same ID was used for two different Actions. For example, which ones should I take? the RES ones?
181 ReallyForceSpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
181 ReallyForceSpell(O:Target,I:Spell*Spell)
318 ForceSpellRangeRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
318 ForceSpellRange(O:Target,I:Spell*Spell)

Hmm, I didn't actually notice that those were duplicates of the same action since they do different things in-game.

Anyway, I don't think it really matters for decompiling, but you better double check with devSin, igi and Avenger (my namesake of DLTCEP fame). They usually post in the IESDP forum on G3.

[bigmoshi]

Apparently, he uses the ids in your override directory for this. But the problem was that the same ID was used for two different Actions. For example, which ones should I take? the RES ones?
181 ReallyForceSpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
181 ReallyForceSpell(O:Target,I:Spell*Spell)
318 ForceSpellRangeRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
318 ForceSpellRange(O:Target,I:Spell*Spell)

Hmm, I didn't actually notice that those were duplicates of the same action since they do different things in-game.

Anyway, I don't think it really matters for decompiling, but you better double check with devSin, igi and Avenger (my namesake of DLTCEP fame). They usually post in the IESDP forum on G3.

Here are some results I got from testing _gremage.bcs from my override directory.
The decompiled script from NI, Weidu & IE is as shown below:

IF
  Global("prep","LOCALS",0)
  HaveSpell(WIZARD_ANIMATE_DEAD)
  See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
  HPPercentGT(Myself,0)
THEN
  RESPONSE #50
	RemoveSpell(WIZARD_ANIMATE_DEAD)
	ReallyForceSpell(Myself,WIZARD_ANIMATE_DEAD)
	DisplayString(Myself,142010) // Come to me, my undead horde!
	Continue()
  RESPONSE #50
	RemoveSpell(WIZARD_ANIMATE_DEAD)
	ReallyForceSpell(Myself,WIZARD_ANIMATE_DEAD)
	DisplayString(Myself,142011) // Lost souls, hear your master's call!
	Continue()
END

Should I change IE to apply the RES version, the param (S:RES*) is missing, unless (S:RES* == I:Spell*Spell) so the decompiled script becomes:

IF
  Global("prep","LOCALS",0)
  HaveSpellRES("")
  See(NearestEnemyOf(Myself))
  HPPercentGT(Myself,0)
THEN
  RESPONSE #50
	RemoveSpellRES("")
	ReallyForceSpellRES("",Myself)
	DisplayString(Myself,142010) // 'Come to me, my undead horde!'
	Continue()
  RESPONSE #50
	RemoveSpellRES("")
	ReallyForceSpellRES("",Myself)
	DisplayString(Myself,142011) // 'Lost souls, hear your master's call!'
	Continue()
END

Since NI, weidu show ReallyForceSpell instead of ReallyForceSpellRES, I'll stick to the original haha

[aVENGER]

Since NI, weidu show ReallyForceSpell instead of ReallyForceSpellRES, I'll stick to the original haha

Here's what IEDSP has to say about this:

31 SpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target*)
95 SpellPointRES(S:RES*,P:Target*)
113 ForceSpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
114 ForceSpellPointRES(S:RES*,P:Target)
147 RemoveSpellRES(S:RES*)
160 ApplySpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
181 ReallyForceSpellRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
191 SpellNoDecRES(S:RES*,O:Target*)
192 SpellPointNoDecRES(S:RES*,P:Target*)
240 ReallyForceSpellDeadRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
318 ForceSpellRangeRES(S:RES*,O:Target)
319 ForceSpellPointRangeRES(S:RES*,P:Target)
337 ReallyForceSpellPointRES(S:RES*,P:Target*)
These are great actions and are available in both ToB and SoA provided you had them listed in your action.ids. These are all overloaded functions, meaning they have the same action values as their earlier counterparts that don't use a RESREF. However, because the parameter types are different, they work differently. All of these work exactly the same as the previous spell type actions, but instead of referencing a value from the spell.ids, they reference spell filenames directly.

Anyway, you should really check with the aforementioned modders about this and any other potential issues. Their knowledge of the IE surpasses mine by lengths.

[bigmoshi]

Anyway, you should really check with the aforementioned modders about this and any other potential issues. Their knowledge of the IE surpasses mine by lengths.

And probably mine too by n x lengths, where n is a random number > 2713.

Ok, thanks for your help & testing

[bigmoshi]

Just to create a time-stamp, here's was my email to Dmitry. Hope he replies favorably

To: Dmitry Jemerov <yole@yole.ru>
Subject: Fixes to Infinity Explorer
Sat, 12 Jan 2008 09:41:23 -0800 (PST)

Hi Dmitry!

Thanks for your extremely helpful Infinity Explorer tool. Couple of days ago, I started to made some slight updates to the tool to help out the modding at SpellHoldStudios, and its freely distributed there, and kept the credits to you. Here's the link to the updates, http://www.shsforums...topic=31285&hl=

Do let me know if you have any issues and I'd be glad to work them out with you.

regards,
<real name> aka BigMoshi

[Miloch]

Can someone just give me a quick summary on what advantages this has over DLTCEP and/or NI? I've never really used it, so I don't know. Cheers.

[bigmoshi]

Can someone just give me a quick summary on what advantages this has over DLTCEP and/or NI? I've never really used it, so I don't know. Cheers.

IE's probably a light-weight browser that makes easier for checking dialog paths with clickbased links created in the decompiled scripts, so that you can just click and access the relevant script, making it rather intuitive. Really bad thing is that it doesn't do editing. So generally, I use IE to check for bugs etc, and then use NI to edit the corresponding files.

The main prob was that it didn't display custom dlgs/script/cre/itm from <override> that were not indexed in chitin.key. So a small fix was created to do that.

Here's an example of the dialog tree. If you click on the path, you'll see the corresponding trigger / action (if any) immediately

Edited by bigmoshi, 13 January 2008 - 02:24 AM.

[Miloch]

Oh, cool. DLTCEP has the same general display for dialogue, but lacks the condition detail AFAIK.

[bigmoshi]

Oh, cool. DLTCEP has the same general display for dialogue, but lacks the condition detail AFAIK.

Yeps, so at least for me, it made it easier to track for dialog bugs etc

[bigmoshi]

Updated overview, credits, & uploaded final fixes! Enjoy!