17 replies to this topic

[Daphne]

I've been juggling ideas around for an NPC mod for quite a while and have gone from crazy people to a study of guard #5 to looking through my old P&P characters to find one that would be both enjoyable to have in a party and enjoyable for me to write.

I like the idea of introducing my bard, Lisear. There's a few problems with this and I'm not too sure how to resolve them.

1) He is a melee bard, with no ranged weapon proficiencies. Haer'Dalis didn't turn out too well for me, so I'm not sure if that's good.
2) He is half-drow, and was conceived in a campaign where drow are neutral, not evil. I'm not sure if half-drow is still cliche, but personality wise, he is definitely not the stereotypical drow/drow offspring.
3) His stats were intended for a very high powered game and I'm not sure how to tone them down. Also, his charisma was through the roof and I'm sure that many people would object to his charisma being above 18. What's the average stat point total of the Bioware NPCs?

Now for a character description.

Lisear is absolutely and positively optimistic. I've described him as "screamingly optimistic" before and that absolutely fits. He always sees a bright side to everything, and sees little point in being depressed. When something bothers him, he works to fix it. When he can't fix things, depending on the situation, he'll either continue to try hopelessly or become a bit more aggressive/jerk-like. That's usually a last resort, but it's because he is nice to a fault. You're probably rolling your eyes, but it's valid. This is the person who will let bad guys go and hand out forgiveness like it's going out of style. He's also terribly unwise (WIS will probably go down to an eight). The wisdom, sometimes combined with natural curiosity, means that he does stupid things a lot (taking his cat into a demon encampment, opening treasure chests without checking for traps, injesting strange potions, and trying on his magic items before identification).

His mother was the drow (neutral) and his father a human priest; I'm not sure how well his mother would be received, but she isn't overtly good. He isn't ashamed of his mother nor the fact that he's half drow and has adjusted to the social stigma he receives. He's actually pretty proud of it, as crazy as it seems.

For background, he's been through a lot. I'm skimping on the details here because I don't have the energy right now for a full history, but I'd planned for him to spill the beans on all his past adventures in-game.

He is, by no means, a character that takes himself seriously. And he's not a terribly serious character. I think BG could use a touch of the lighthearted and that's one reason why I prefer him over my other ideas. If he is an utterly bad idea, I'll move on, but please ask questions and allow me to clarify.

Edited by Daphne, 07 January 2008 - 06:39 PM.

[vilkacis]

The Blade kit is quite powerful, or at least that's what people who use it tell me. It might require a bit more than just clicking "attack" on everything, though.

In order not to mix up the drow lore, you could have him born in a community of Elistraee worshippers (who are generally Good/Neutrtal, IIRC). Of course, the planar travel option always exists, but it's a bit overused by now, especially since the game's original bard did it first.

Superhuman stats are indeed cause for much whining, and with good reason. Actually, you're not safe even with good but humanly possible stats - unless you can write the character in such a way that they seem to deserve those stats. Mental abilities are much more difficult to "sell" than physical ones.

As for the totals, Azkyroth posted them in another topic.

Aerie: 10+17+9+16+16+14=82
Anomen: 18+10+16+10+12+13=79
Cernd: 13+9+13+12+18+15=80
Edwin: 10+10+16+18+10+10=74
Haer'Dalis: 17+17+9+15+13+16=87
Imoen: 9+18+16+17+11+16=87
Jaheira: 15+17+17+10+14+15=88
Jan: 9+17+15+16+14+10=81
Keldorn: 17+9+17+12+16+18=89
Korgan: 18+15+19+12+9+7=80
Mazzy: 15+18+16+10+13+14=86
Minsc: 18+16+16+8+6+9=73
Nalia: 14+18+16+17+9+13=87
Sarevok: 18+17+18+17+10+15=95
Valygar: 17+18+16+10+11+10=82
Viconia: 10+19+8+16+18+14=85
Yoshimo: 17+18+9+13+10+14=81

(It's kind of hard to comment on your stats since you didn't post any...)

[Daphne]

I'm not a fan of planar travel, so I wouldn't be using that. The Ellistraee idea is good, though.

His stats as they stand are well above 80-90, so I didn't see a real point in posting them. For scaled down equivalents, I'd say something along the lines of:

STR: 14
DEX: 16
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 18

That's at 85, but I'm not sure if even that's too high. The Bioware average looks to be 82-83.

[the bigg]

Bards, paladins and druids always have higher-than-usual stat sum due to minimum requirements, unless they really had a misunderstanding with their dice (like Cernd did).

I'd say that he is balanced, and if you want him to be melee survivable he'll likely need 15-16 const - as he is, his physical stats are strictly worse than Haer Dalis'.

Edited by the bigg, 11 January 2008 - 09:52 AM.

[vilkacis]

Those stats look pretty good - definitely not overpowered. The only problem is the fact that you'll be directly competing with Haer'Dalis, who is, in my experience, considered quite charming by the fans, but "only" has a CHA of 16. Of course, their widely differing personalities mean it'd be a rather different kind of "charm"... still, it's worth considering.

He's weaker and slower than H'D, so another point of CON certainly wouldn't be a bad thing... I don't think it's strictly necessary, though, since H'D doesn't have a HP bonus either and seems to do quite well. Stoneskin and other defensive spells can make up for a lot of HP.

[jastey]

I am not so fond of the half-drow origin (Ashara sometime posted a fantastic guide of "overused ideas" once, but I don't seem to find it any more). But in this case, I have to admit the character is different to the evil, brooding, sarcastic or whatever drow type I could imagine. Still, I also could imagine him to be half-elf and have the same life and character, but I guess that's also because I don't know the back story which hides behind your words that he has gone through a lot.

All in all, the character sounds very different, a refreshing thought. Stats are good, I like it if people make their NPCs realistic and give them some weanesses, makes them a lot more enjoyable imho.

If you give me one reason why he has to be a half drow, I would say that's a very nice concept.

What is his alignment (if it's written I missed it), and why would he join the PC?

One question though, as I never played with bards: If he is going into melee, how is he supposed to do his chanting? I imagine him to take quite a view hits while trying to do his magic, but as I said, it's a principle question as I have no experience with bards at all.

[vilkacis]

The "overused ideas" topic has been moved to the wiki to avoid cluttering up the board with stickies.

As for spellcasting, a bard can fill many roles. If he's only going to cast spells, he'll probably hang back, so getting hit isn't much of an issue. If he's going into combat, he can put up Haste, Stoneskin and the like before closing on the enemy. Also, having Stoneskin up means he's not going to take much damage, so it's possible to cast spells even in close combat.

[Daphne]

Years have passed since I made him and I can't remember my exact reason for picking half-drow (it might be the happy looking half-drow in Races of Faerun), but as time went on I realized that the decision for his race impacted a lot more than what I wrote on the sheet; he suffered a staggering amount of prejudice and racism that a normal half-elf would never encounter. And through it all, he kept his brave face on - it was a gradual change from bewilderment ("what do they mean by half-breed?") to pride ("I can't change this, so I must be at peace with what I am"). I've seen my fair share of poorly executed drow and half-drow: the brutal, evil guy that the ladies love anyway, the one who desperately wants acceptance and comfort - but I hadn't seen anyone who wanted to come to terms with themselves. A lot of the times, that race is just chosen to be attention-seeking. And, well, he attracts enough attention to not have to rely on the race as a crutch.

He's CG, which probably throws up red flags. He's been siding more towards NG since he's had to shoulder more resposiblity, but he's just too eager to break rules for me to say NG right now. Since this is more like an adaptation, I'll have to tweak him a bit more anyway - like his background, for instance, which would probably not jive with Realms mythos (numerous things, like his employment in a royal court, his mother being the head of a ruling house, his aspirations to rule the drow as their king, the wizard triathelon).  I'll type up a full background once I sketch it up; I can't really sit for too long now.

He'd join the party just to add to his story collection: he's a story guy and is eager to run around and adventure as much as he can. Since he's not so aware, he wouldn't be able to distinguish an evil PC from a good PC until a particularly heinous act.

A part of me wonders if it'd be easier to start with something new, but I have my sights set on an optimistic, carefree character and I'm not really sure where any new ideas would put me. One of my first ideas was for a character who'd actually be happy about the transformation (read: crazy), but I had no clue where to take that.

[Miloch]

happy looking half-drow in Races of Faerun

Happy... if you consider "The Joker" from Batman to look "happy" I guess...

[vilkacis]

He's CG, which probably throws up red flags. He's been siding more towards NG since he's had to shoulder more resposiblity, but he's just too eager to break rules for me to say NG right now.

First and foremost, there's nothing wrong with CG characters. (Drizzt alone can't be allowed to taint a whole alignment, dammit!)

Second, law and chaos isn't so much about rules of society as it is about personal ones. It's possible to break every law you come across and remain lawful because have your own personal code and stick to it. (For example, a paladin only obeys local laws as long as they don't conflict with his order's code of behaviour.) Chaos is more a matter of not having any personal code of bahaviour and being impluse-driven or even "random". So, he could very well be NG (which means he'd have some set principles he'll follow, but also act on impulse a good amount of the time) if you prefer that. You could even state that he's "NG with CG tendencies" if you want - I've seen that used in official material on a few occasions. But like I said, there's nothing wrong with being CG.




Also, come to think of it - while there are several "full" drow NPCs out there, I don't think I've seen a half-drow made yet. (Of course, I haven't seen every mod NPC out there, but..)

[Miloch]

Also, come to think of it - while there are several "full" drow NPCs out there, I don't think I've seen a half-drow made yet. (Of course, I haven't seen every mod NPC out there, but..)

I think there's one in the IWD2 NPC Project. Though I'm not sure if he's actually half-drow or just posing as one (like that's some kind of disguise for a drow, heh). As I recall from the earliest PnP modules like Vault of the Drow, there were several different types of half-drow, as they could breed with other elves or humans. Most if not all were seen as outcasts, bastard children of slaves or prostitutes in many cases. And fairly rare of course. Drow in general and especially "kind-hearted drow" are on the overused wiki, for whatever reasons. Maybe a half-aquatic elf would be kind of cool (and pretty much unheard of in mods AFAIK) - these are also detailed in Races of Faerun.

[vilkacis]

To avoid drowning Daphne's NPC concept in unrelated stuff, I moved the alignment discussion to Delusions of the Mind.

[Daphne]

I was hoping I could dodge the bullet on the "kind hearted drow" one because he isn't full drow, but I doubt any of those drow get taken advantage of. From what I've seen, the most common is the kind type that sees through any attempts of manipulation. :X

He is definitely more CG then, since he is definitely impulsive. Like deciding to go on a cross-world tour because his friend dies just to find somebody capable of a wish/miracle.

I've ALWAYS wanted to make a half-aquatic elf but I believe they have to submerge in water every hour or something? Maybe an hour per con? I'm open to anything, as long as I don't have to write a drama queen, a whiner, or a jerk.

(Thanks vilkacis <3)

[Miloch]

I've ALWAYS wanted to make a half-aquatic elf but I believe they have to submerge in water every hour or something? Maybe an hour per con?

Maybe for full-blooded aquatic elves but not half-breeds. In fact, they can't even breathe underwater:

Forced by nature to remain with her air-breathing parent, a half-aquatic elf is cut off - except for short visits - from any aquatic elves with whom she could identify, costing her half of her heritage. Where some people with such an unusual heritage would become bitter outcasts, half-aquatic elves instead tend to be dreamers, content to keep their own company but not resentful of their circumstances... Often loners, half-aquatic elves tend to be rogues, sorcerers or fighters... Most half-aquatic elves hail from a beach culture.

(Races of Faerun, p. 61)

There are a lot of other hooks that would make for an interesting NPC. And of course, you shouldn't feel the need to stick to the stereotypical description if it doesn't suit you.

[Miss Sakaki]

I'm open to anything, as long as I don't have to write a drama queen, a whiner, or a jerk.

That's a good start! Seriously, though, the personality of this character sounds very engaging. You've obviously put a lot of work into forming his character. I think if it were me I would want him to have experienced prejudice for another reason than his race, though - as Miloch said, there are lots of different hooks you could use to grab your audience. Personally I'm not that fond of elves, but the half aquatic elf idea sounds fun, and I'd definitely play it.

Most half-aquatic elves hail from a beach culture.

Is it just me who thinks of elves in California when they read that?

[Choo Choo]

Oooh, this actually looks great! I've read this topic from the beginning, just didn't get around to commenting until now.

I was a bit iffy when you first presented the concept, but the more and more I've read of your explanations and your added info, this looks more promising by the day! Sorry for being an initial unbeliever. *grin*

Miss Sakaki: I think of the exact same thing, save for Miami instead.

[Daphne]

Sorry, guys. I've been trying to think of how to tackle his revised background, especially since I realized that he had grown up in a human community, not drow. It's been a little tricky reasoning over that, but a mixed race community doesn't seem too farfetched if they're Elistraae worshippers. I'm also trying to think over why he wouldn't have any of his friends with him, nor the small fortune he's accumulated, nor his ship, nor his google of magic items. I could strip him to the bare-bones beginning, but then he wouldn't have any stories to tell - and that was something I'd planned on there being a lot of.

I'm always afraid of making something too exotic, so I tend to stick with humans and half-elves. It's okay to post other ideas here, though, right?

[vilkacis]

Sometimes, there's a simple solution to everything. What if the ship sunk? Maybe they got attacked by pirates, maybe there was a storm, maybe there was an angry sea monster - whatever. He lost whatever was on it, and what he wasn't carrying at the time is still at his home base, which conveniently enough happens to be quite far from Amn. If he had friends along, they got scattered in the shipwreck. That takes care of all three problems, and can also work as motivation. Then you can have a brief encounter or two along the way with other characters who were on that ship; they can work as quest givers if you need any, or they can just give some hints or simply say "hi".