23 replies to this topic

[Zyraen]

First off, this is not a TC. Unless I can get a working demo out performing well without lag issues, I won't continue to do the full idea, which is based off Silmarillion to some extent (those who doesn't know what the name means, its ok)

Basically the main fun of the idea is to run with battle scenarios in BG2, but the engine is observed to lag with large number of hostile enemies. So hence the purpose of having a Sample Battlefield mod.

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Squads

The idea of squads is something as follows, 4 ranks of Commanders, for each faction (elves or orcs).
All commanders have their own regeneration rate, and have +2 to all stats, saving throws, thac0, AC, damage.

1st Rank - Sergeant / Raider, 40% extra Life, controls 3 units
2nd Rank - Lieutenant / Chieftain, 60% extra Life, controls 4 units. all units receive Regeneration over time
3rd Rank - Captain / Champion, 80% extra Life, controls 5 units. if a unit dies, after some time it will Respawn nearby
4th Rank - General / Warlord, 100% extra Life, controls 6 units. provides both Regeneration and Respawn

Commanders are the only unit that wander across the field, from point to point, engaging enemies that it sees ; all their squad members follow them when not fighting. If a squad member loses sight of commander after a battle has ended, they will teleport to near the commander. If the commander is reduced to 50% or less Life, all squad members will attack the character attacking the commander. If the commander is killed, the squad members will just randomwalk() around aimlessly.

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Commander Classes

Commanders generally come in 5 classes
Fighter - 50% chance
Ranger - 25% chance
Thief - 15% chance
Mage - 10% chance

Rangers and Thieves travel in groups consisting solely of their class ; their squads move largely unseen to surprise enemies.

Fighters and Mages both have "normal" groups, mainly fighters and rangers. 2nd Rank have 60% chance of one unit being a thief ; 3rd Rank have 60% chance of one unit being a Mage/Cleric, and another unit 60% being a Thief ; 4th rank have the same chance as 3rd Rank, plus another unit having 60% chance of being a Mage.

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Levels

for parties with PC up to level 15, the map will have squads varying of levels 8 10 and 12.
for parties with PC up to level 24, the map will have squads with units of levels around 15 18 and 21.
for parties with PC above level 36, the map will have squads varying of levels 25 29 and 33.

For the purposes of the mod, Thieves will probably get extra Life and Thac0 bonuses to compensate for less use of their lockpicking etc abilities.

HLAs will probably be fairly limited, possibly gaining only 1 every 3 or 4 levels.

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More Commanders

Elves will probably get certain heroes as commanders, that may provide special bonuses beyond the ordinary as well to their squads

Orcs will probably have a small chance of getting a special commander, Fire Giant, Werewolf, or Balor. These will probably lead squads of their own kind, but with less members than normal squads.

These may not be in the sample battlefield, but in the mod itself it will definitely be so, assuming the engine can handle the mod.

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Resting / Saving

Resting will probably not be allowed on the battlefield, though players may save game while not fighting. They can also use their Pocketplane to have a rest, but returning back will reset the Battlefield. Spells will probably need to be carefully conserved and used rather than used all at once.

Players may also need to persuade allied commanders to help them to reach an objective, or they may risk being overrun by the enemy army.

Failing the objectives of the scenario (say letting some hero die) will probably incur penalties in the mod itself.

Edited by Zyraen, 29 November 2007 - 11:14 PM.

[Zyraen]

I forgot to add, my aim is for there to be probably up to 6 squads per side on the map at any one time ; on a commander's death, after a while another squad will come in as reinforcement.

This continues until all the squads are exhausted (probably about 20 squads per side, or varying number depending on the scenario)

The Player and his Party are just themselves, 6 people, in a place with full of general mayhem, trying to achieve what objectives they can.

Edited by Zyraen, 30 November 2007 - 12:26 AM.

[Eric P.]

I highly encourage this project, and wish you success! It's something that appeals to me mightily

- E

[Jarno Mikkola]

Just one two parted question, if I am an half-orc, can I be on the orc side.
Pst, one part of (elf)one side in the demo is enough. Good luck!

[Zyraen]

Well in the Demo, I presume you will be on the Elven side. I might make one more version for Multiplayer, so that by turning on an (individual) AI script, each of the 6 Party Members can lead a squad.

After that, if the Silmarillion does go underway, there'll certainly be scenarios where you will be Elven but killing Elves.

[Kaeloree]

I for one am looking forward to this - and especially, if it's done, Silmarillion. Keep us informed, Zyraen!

[Solar's Harper]

Agreed, this idea has my full support.

Just one question however, when you talk about convincing allied commanders and objectives; what kind of things are we talking about exactly? I mean I can understand morale being a reason for dissension, but what exactly would a commander need to be convinced of to abandon his/her position to aid the player in reaching an objective point?

And if they do move their station, what would be the penalty of the gap left open?

Either way, I like the idea immensely Zyraen.
And it will be interesting to see what kind of ideas will spawn for objectives and such, particularly with different types of battlefields.

Maybe even non-aligned creatures getting tricked into a fight by a team? Or being converted to one team? Heh, objectives, so many, so little time.

[the bigg]

While it may not be what you're trying to do, plunder freely from Large Scale Battle in TB#Quest. If you do, I'd like to just ask you to move the files from my prefix to yours, to avoid troubles.

[WizWom]

so the idea is to have the squad member's AI very simple, so to limit the number of AI blocks that must be scanned each AI tick, right?

I think you're going about it in a decent way, I'd like to see the results.

[Zyraen]

The coding is underway satisfactorily, except for some bugs, which occur due to the fact that no squad members or squad leader has any DVs whatsoever, yet they are (should be) able to coordinate attacks, the squad leader spawn replacement members over time, and members regenerate if the leader is still alive. I am happy to report that it has not (yet) hung due to too many sprites or such

As for convincing ALLIED commanders to join you, it can be tricky, with respective to Silmarillion. (orc / balrog etc commanders are out of question, they're red)

Generally there are 4 elven factions and 1 human faction in Silmarillion.
Feanor's House - suspicious and wary, but very courageous. distrustful but hate Morgoth and his armies with a burning passion
Fingolfin's House - courageous, friendly, needs reason to distrust but also reason to trust. most driven by tactical benefit; ie makes sense to invade.
Finarfin's House - very friendly but very cautious, unless all is on their side. most driven by need to aid someone.
Thingol's House - suspicious and withdrawn. cautious but courageous. prefers ranged combat over melee. will move to defend their own.
Beor's House - the house of Men loyal to cause of the Elves. very fierce and courageous, likely to charge into the assault and be killed. when in small bands, they are masters of guerilla warfare. can be likened to barbarians.

As for what works, it can vary. Slaying the enemy commander that he was sent to guard against is a good reason ; alleviating the commander's duress is also good. Other things may depend on the personality ; some may ask that you (or your party member) fight and beat in personal combat, others may attack you to test your sincerity ; yet others may attack you with the full intention to slay you. It really depends on how you/your party members handle it, and there will be Stat Checks (though no Reputation checks).

The complicated scenarios might be considerably tougher than ToB. For eg, you may have a scenario (ie journal entry) where you have to keep Elwing and Illuvi alive for a period of time as they retreat from a place (they are squad commanders btw). Wave after wave of enemies come, which make it all but impossible, so you probably need to enlist the help of say, other commanders.

Trying 1, you realise eventually you still get overrun, so you decide possibly you need more. Unfortunately one other commander is under attack, and the other is some distance away AND with a large enemy army between. Plus timing is an issue ; so to do this, you might split your party up.

- 1 Stealther drinks a potion of Haste and Stealth-runs through the large enemy encampment, has to persuade the commander (Ring of Human Influence?) and then has to lead the Allied Commander to skirt around the enemy army (if any ONE squad member of his sees the enemy, he will engage in combat, and the whole squad will get tied up), and if that happens you won't be in time even if you all survive.
- the other beleaguered commander might mean most of your party members doing a race-against-time to kill his opponent(s) so that he has enough men to provide meaningful assistance to your cause.
- 1 other person, probably the weakest one, might go and persuade the friendly one that is not too caught up, so that again, his squad arrives in time to help prevent the Main Objective from being failed.

None of these sub-objectives may be written in your Journal, though in-game NPCs may provide suggestions.

Something like that Devious?

PS : Off the side note, Elwing is the mom of the Elrond we see in LotR

[Zyraen]

Off the side note, anyone knows of weapon/armor -sensitive Orc bams? currently all the Orc Animations I use look the same regardless of what they carry / wear.

Alternatively would it be a good idea to use Green-Skinned Humans? (since most of the protagonists are elves anyway...)

[Deathsangel]

Off the side note, anyone knows of weapon/armor -sensitive Orc bams? currently all the Orc Animations I use look the same regardless of what they carry / wear.

Alternatively would it be a good idea to use Green-Skinned Humans? (since most of the protagonists are elves anyway...)

Go with green skinned humans. Orcs also fail in animations for the weapons they carry.

[Zyraen]

Quick Update on what has been implemented in-game
- commander and squad member spawning works flawlessly
- if commander is alive, member will respawn
- if commander is dead, members will randomwalk if not in combat and then leave the field eventually

Upcoming
- coordinated attacks / helping the commander
- movement from one waypoint to another waypoint

[Zyraen]

A Screenshot Fighting in the Courtyard. Was interesting to watch.
ORC Bams now show their characteristics, including armor, weapons etc.

Attached Images

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[Zyraen]

Updates

- pathing sorted out, no more jamming due to CREs blocking the squad marker (takes a while to clear at times)
- weapon randomisation for orcs and elves. orcs are randomised individually ; elves have the same weapon combination per squad, though individual weapons may vary
- house randomisation for elves. every squad is now one of 3 houses - Feanor, Fingolfin, Finarfin, respectively red/purple, light blue/silver, blue/gold

Just wondering, who is interested in a sample map? If not I may work straight on the storyline for Silmarillion itself already Writing has begun quite a few days ago.

[leahnkain]

What if you where to do the fall of Myth Drannor? It could be a series of campains which lead to the destruction of the city. If you like the idea and if you need reference material PM me.

[Zyraen]

Silmarillion is my pet project, not having much knowledge nor interest in FR (too varied base, at least for me...)

However if you wish to do a similar project for the Fall of Myth Drannor, I can pass you what code I have developed so far and you should be able to do the rest in simple order.

[leahnkain]

I would love to but Classic Adventures is taking most of my time. I look forward to trying Silmarillion.

[Zyraen]

Screenshot -
Squad of House Finarfin in their Blue & Gold armor and double weapons
engage the Orcs. Notice the orcs have varied weaponry from each.

Edited by Zyraen, 18 December 2007 - 09:56 AM.

[Zyraen]

House Feanor in their Scarlet & Purple armor with Weapons/Shields
move to reinforce the earlier Squad of House Finarfin.
Elven Squads have a fixed House and fixed Weapon Style for every member.
The choice of both House and Weapon Style is randomly generated