16 replies to this topic

[Lucia]

Hey everybody. I've been ghosting around the modding communities for years now, and I thought it time I finally gave something back. Especially since I've finally finished moving around and have a computer again. I wanted to get some general feedback on whether people were interested and what they think before I got started in earnest. Earnest being the scripting, difficult part . . . I've already got a rather massive amount of writing done.

This is yet another NPC mod, but hopefully one that's a bit less restrictive than others. I wanted to create someone you could have and would hopefully WANT to have in your party, regardless of your own class or alignment. I see a lot of fantastic mods out there with some great content that restricts itself to an evil or good PC, and I wanted to make something that would be accessible to everyone, regardless of play style.

Thus, Giselle. Giselle was originally intended to be a fairly pivotal character in a NWN mod that I was very close to finishing when I lost my computer a few years back. I liked the character enough that I felt she could be revived here when I found out about the modding communities, and learned enough.

Giselle is a joinable NPC who will add four different medium-sized quests to the game (one introductory one, one basic personal one, and one "for" the PC depending on his or her alignment) and a ton of dialogue and extra content. She is NOT romanceable -- there are already a lot of NPCs out there falling head over heels for CHARNAME, so I wanted to do something different. She is instead a character designed to allow the player to explore his or her alignment and personality, allowing you to speak with her in depth about any number of subjects, including herself. Giselle owns an apothecary in Athkatla, and will join you after you undertake a deceptively simple-sounding little task for her. Later in the game, there are also two temporarily joinable NPCs who will join you to take part in "your" quest, each with a different alignment to suit you. (Sorcha, for example, is a young Paladin who will temporarily join for the good aligned quest, while Frum is a ranger with a lack of scruples who will join for the evil quest.) Since she has her own store, once she has joined your party, you may return to it at any time and speak with her assistant to purchase items at a discount as long as she is with you.

There is absolutely no pressure to get involved in a friendship with Giselle -- all you will miss out on is her own quest that reveals a little more about her past, but it isn't necessary to keep her with you. She will stay with your party, regardless of alignment or reputation, until you tell her to leave. For that matter, there will be options for good PCs to "turn her in" if they feel she isn't exactly an upstanding person, or for an evil PC to turn on her. She will banter extensively with Bioware NPCs (some more than others), and, if enough interest is shown, will hopefully eventually be included in the Crossmod Banter project. There are several endings possible for her at the end of ToB, depending on how much you know about her, what she's done, and your own alignment. Don't expect her to be a perfect NPC with a godly set of stats, or even to find out everything about her. She isn't your everyday "lady of mystery everybody loves and is insatiably curious about". (That's already been done by better than me!)

Personality: Giselle is an enigmatic woman with a shadowed past. That's not to say it's been particularily disreputable, but "a lady never tells". You'll have the opportunity to find out more for yourself in game if you wish. Self-confident and assured, Giselle's mild manner and remarkable calm can make her seem non-confrontational, when in fact she is actually extraordinarily determined in getting what she wants. Despite her polite, some would say even charming manner, there is always someone who seems to find her a little unsettling . . . although they can never quite put their finger on it. She carries herself like a noble, to some extent, but treats even the most unscrupulous thieves and most pious of priests as equals. Although she is fairly popular with most people, she seems to prefer to keep her own company -- at least, she does until someone interesting comes along. In the past, by her own admission, she has frequently wound up quietly in the background on one side or another of any number of causes, with no apparent rhyme or reason to her choices. For Giselle, the world is in shades of gray -- not black and white -- and every day presents new opportunities for anyone to sieze upon -- good or evil -- if only they have the will to do it. Once she has made her decision about a side to support, she is in it to the end . . . for better, or for worse.

Full name: Giselle Amara
Sex: Female
Species: Human
Age: Looks around mid 30's
Alignment: True Neutral
Class: Sorceress (may have a custom kit)
Stats: TBA
Biography: When asked about her past, GISELLE gives you a funny little smile. She says she isn't much more than any other woman trying to make a living in the world . . . although she admits she may have been more successful than others. Indeed, she seems a little out of place even amidst the nobles; you would be hard pressed in thinking of a place where she would fit in without being noticed. When you ask her why she really decided to come along with you, she only smiles again and pats your cheek in an almost motherly fashion, saying she finds your curiosity flattering and laughing at your obvious embarassment. It isn't until she resumes her place in formation that you realise, some time later, she never actually answered your question.

Please note the following before you read the samples -- I can't stand NPCs that always get the best of every single conversation. You know what I mean, the ones who are so perfect, so witty, they always get the last word in and end the conversation smug and sitting pretty. This is NOT the case with Giselle. Both the NPCs and the PC have multiple opportunities to take her down a peg, leave her speechless, and so forth, just as she may occasionally have the chance to do the same. These are just a few examples of a more basic nature.
Banter Samples:

Anomen: Lady Amara, pray pardon my intrusion, but have you been in Amn very long?
Giselle: Oh, for quite some time, darling. Although I haven't decided whether or not to lay down roots just yet.
Anomen: I see . . . and what made you decide to open your own business?
Giselle: Why, people, of course. I adore them -- they're all so fascinating, don't you think? And you meet so many when you're in my line of work.
Anomen: Ah, so you would say you're rather a bit of a, er, philanthropist?
Giselle: Master Delryn, my dear, I wasn't aware I had done anything to warrant an inquisition from the Order. I apologise if I have given you reason to think --
Anomen: No, my Lady, it is I who must apologise. I did not mean to make you uncomfortable. I was only curious as to why a lady of your obvious stature and good standing within the community would choose to run her business in such a place as you have chosen.
Giselle: You flatter me, darling! You needn't worry about me. I assure you, I am quite capable of managing myself, and I have not yet had any alarming . . . ah, incidents that would be cause for worry.
Anomen: Ah, well, that is . . . good to hear, Lady Amara. It would be most distressing if any ill were to befall such a fine member of the city because of a lapse in judgement.
Giselle: *Although the exchange has been pleasant enough, you get the feeling you may have been missing something as you listen. Giselle's expression seems to change quality in some subtle way you can't identify, though she merely inclines her head in a humble, respectful manner. As for Anomen, you can't help but think there is an unmerritted watchful look in Anomen's eyes, and the polite smile he wears seems a little tight and artificial. Nothing seems to have changed outwardly between them, but you can't help but notice they do not speak again for some time afterwards.*

*takes place after a certain event, this is only one path showing the outcomes of one possible dialogue choice in each instance*
PC: Giselle, what was that back there?
Giselle: Hah . . . don't . . . don't worry about it. I . . . I've taken care of it. Oh, only, let me rest a moment . . .
PC: No! I need to -- I don't understand! What happened back there? What did you do? That man --
Giselle: Hmph . . . ah. I told you . . . I took care of it. Of him.
. . . Our path is now clear. We can continue, yes?
PC: . . . Giselle, you've helped me this far, and I appreciate it, but . . . I need to know. Who . . . what ARE you?
Giselle: . . . why, I'm your friend, darling. And right now . . . that should be more than good enough for you.

*one of Giselle's first initiated talks with the PC, again only showing one possible choice for each path out of several*
Giselle: CHARNAME, dear . . . are you happy with your life?
PC: Well . . . obviously there's a lot to be desired right now. I HAVE told you about Irenicus, and there's that whole thing with Imoen . . .
Giselle: Of course, things may seem dark to you now. But when you look back on your life . . . on the things you have done, the choices you made, the people you became friends with . . . are you happy with it all?
PC: That's . . . an awfully broad association, Giselle. Of course not every choice I made each and every time throughout my life was a good one -- we all do stupid things. But, I suppose . . . yes. I think I am. I think I've lived my life well, and been a good person.
Giselle: Well, then, darling. That's really all anyone can ever ask for, isn't it? And if you would like my opinion . . . I believe you ARE a good person. Perhaps one of the best I've met.
PC: Giselle . . . uh. Huh. Well! Wow. Thank you?
Giselle: Keep your chin up, darling. There's always a new day to look forward to.

Imoen: Hey, Giselle, is it hard to run a store?
Giselle: I daresay that depends on a great many things, dear. Why? Is it something you think you might like to do?
Imoen: I don't know . . . maybe. I was just thinkin' about what I'd like to do after all this is over . . . providing we live that long, heh. And, well, that seems at least as good as any other choice. Anyway, YOU seem to enjoy it.
Giselle: Oh, I do. Quite a bit.
Giselle: It can be trying from time to time . . . but life isn't worth living without hardship.
Imoen: I dunno. I think CHARNAME'd agree that we both might like a little less of that right now.
Giselle: To be sure. But a wiser woman than I once told me that without the bad in our lives, we would not know the good when we saw it, and love it for what it was.
Imoen: Geez . . . what do you do? Sit around and drink fancy wine with snooty philosophers when you're not out with us?
Giselle: Ha! Something like that, dear. Something like that.

*one of the possible PC initiated talks if the PC is of an evil alignment. Obviously there are different responses available for you, some harsher than others -- this is just a basic one, since not every evil character is constantly frothing at the mouth*
PC: Giselle. Are you ever afraid of me?
Giselle: Darling, whatever brings this on?
PC: That's just it. You keep calling me that. Well, heh, you call everyone that, but me . . . I'm nobody's darling. In fact, I've been called a lot worse names.
Giselle: Mmmm. Well, I don't know about that. What have you done to me? Have you planted some knife between my ribs I've yet to discover? Are you trying to tell me you're really some serpent in the grass, waiting for me to plant a foot unawares within striking distance.
PC: Hah. Nothing so dramatic as that. But, Giselle, my point is . . . the things I've done . . . the things I could do to you, even . . . one day. Does it worry you?
Giselle: Would it worry you if it did not? I am not an irrational woman, CHARNAME. Or a stupid one. I know where I stand. And I know my uses to you.
PC: I suppose you are useful . . . at the moment.
Giselle: Such flattery! CHARNAME, my dear, I see you. I know with perfect clarity . . . what you are. What other people may be. And I do not turn away from anyone.
Giselle: Of course . . . nor do I completely turn my back on them. *She even smiles as she says this last, her usual, coy, faint twist of the lips. She reaches out and brazenly brushes a dried speck of blood from your cheek, before returning to her place in line without so much as a backward glance.*

As of right now, I have no plans to voice Giselle. If, somewhere down the road, anybody wants to offer to voice her when everything is done (I dont want to ask someone to commit before it's done), they're more than welcome to. Attached is one of the possible portraits I had for Giselle way back when she was a NWN side character. Unfortunately, it's the only one I've been able to find since, but I thought I'd include it anyway just to give an idea.

. . . geez, that was a long post.

Attached Images

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[theacefes]

Okay a few opinions from my way:

1) Keep her as a vanilla class.
2) You may want to decrease the length of your ** action text a bit. Action text can be handy but there is no need for lines upon lines of it in one state.
3) She seems very nice and *normal* which is refreshing, however for the sake of getting your mod idea out in the open...is there *anything* else about her past you can share with us?
4) Her stats would be nice when you get them.
5) Perhaps see about getting her portrait baldurized?

[Lucia]

1)  Sounds good.  I hadn't really intended to change too very much on it anyway.  

2)  Noted.  I'm used to playing the older NWN modules where that sort of thing is the norm, but I can understand how it can get annoying when that isn't occuring anywhere else in the game.

3)  Here's some more, a bit of a longer version that still leaves some of the more important aspects of her past to be discovered later.  Some of this you can find out more in depth in the game from Giselle herself, and the rest you can cobble together from speaking with people who know her, when you run into them:
  Although Giselle would claim she doesn't even remember when she is originally from, simply tracing the trail of her past back as far as you can will eventually lead you towards Waterdeep.  Although she displayed some small innate magical ability at an early age, her parents and tutors were quick to advise her to keep it under wraps, doing their best to impress upon her how sorcerors were generally out of control, destructive creatures (well, that was the view they had back then, anyway).  
She left home fairly young, around fifteen or so, not due to any tragedy or falling out in her family, but out of a desire to simply see more than the one-dimensional people she was used to encountering around the noble houses her family frequented.  She managed to plead a ride out of a passing merchant's caravan, and although he would claim that when he awoke the entire morning half of his lightest, easiest to carry stock was gone along with his temporary guest, Giselle insists with her usual smooth aplomb it was a gift.  
However it was obtained, it served as the foundation for Giselle's financial endeavours;  first on a simple clapboard table in the marketplace, then a stall, then finally out of the back of her own caravan.  By all accounts she was a successful businesswoman for several years . . . at least successful enough to fund her tutelage under a more experienced sorceror who felt rather differently about her abilities than her family did.
Since then, she's spent much of her time travelling, often straight into the midst of conflict . . . or, as she calls it, being in the right place at the right time.  Depending on who you speak to, and the sides she's taken, her reputation is vague at best.  While she has never actually been involved in anything that would call for her capture or execution (at least, not that is publicly known), nor has she ever single-handedly stopped a war or saved a village, there are those who would either damn her or sing her praises.  Even more who had no idea she was even a factor in it -- Giselle likes to keep herself quietly in the background whenever possible, an accessory rather than the sword arm itself.  So far, she's come out of it relatively clean and unscathed.  But even she knows there will come a day when she will ultimately have to choose a side in a conflict once and for all.  It just depends on your actions what her stance will be.

4)  Her stats are a little sketchy right now.  I don't want her to be one of those insanely overpowered characters.  But here's a sort of rough outline I was leaning towards.  STR 10, DEX 12, CON 13, INT 15, WIS 12, CHA 16

5)  I'd planned on it.  That was basically just a rough idea I'd posted, since it basically fits the image I'd always had on her.  When I have all the scripting done, which is the important bit, I'll see about the portrait.  Rest assured that's not the final one, just an example of a person who looks like what I imagine her to be;  I want Giselle to look like she should actually be a part of the game.

[Choo Choo]

Oh, she sounds interesting, and a refreshing change. Very few (if any) similar NPC's out there, although I may be out bicycling, but as far as I know, at least.

I would, however, be careful with adding far too many NPC quests - <CHARNAME> has the spotlight. However, as long as they fit in nicely and seamlessly (and doesn't steal the spotlight too much), it should be fine!

I'll probably add something more when it's not 11:15PM.

EDIT:

Ah, yes, and welcome to SHS.

Edited by Choo Choo, 09 November 2007 - 02:17 PM.

[Azkyroth]

Oh, she sounds interesting, and a refreshing change. Very few (if any) similar NPC's out there, although I may be out bicycling, but as far as I know, at least.

I would, however, be careful with adding far too many NPC quests - <CHARNAME> has the spotlight. However, as long as they fit in nicely and seamlessly (and doesn't steal the spotlight too much), it should be fine!

I'll probably add something more when it's not 11:15PM.

EDIT:

Ah, yes, and welcome to SHS.

As an addendum, I would think quests that stem from opportunities related to the NPC's presence in the party but focus on <CHARNAME> rather than the NPC would be a good way of counteracting the spotlight issue; it sounds as though you're planning one or more of those?

[Lucia]

You've got it.  Giselle only has one quest that's "hers".  The two others, based on alignment, are offered to you by people who know her.  So really, if you wanted, after you'd had the quest offered to you, you could kick her out of the party if you wanted and still complete the quest.  Like Choo Choo has pointed out, the player is the spotlight of the game, so Giselle is, at heart, an NPC designed to allow you to really role play your character to your heart's content and open up new venues for you.  

Spoilers about the quests, for those of you who are interested.  These are general run-downs of the premises, and although they don't give everything away, if you want to have it all a surprise when the mod is released, don't look!

The Good Alignment:

Spoiler

Players of a good alignment will eventually be approached by a young woman named Sorcha Kennemen if Giselle is in the party.  Sorcha is a dedicated and extremely stern woman, rather like Jaheira, who has been tasked by her order to discover what happened to several caravans en route to Athkatla.  Giselle will mention to her that she believes you would be a good person to ask for aid in this situation.  If you do accept, Sorcha will temporarily join your party until the quest is resolved.

The Evil Alignment:

Spoiler

Players of an evil inclination will soon find themselves approached by a halfling by the name of Frum Brusch.  Frum has been hired by a man to murder the husband of the woman he is having an affair with, and Frum approaches Giselle to find out if she has any items in her stock that may be of use.  Despite being distrustful, Frum will accept your offer to help her -- and get a cut of the reward -- if you accept when Giselle suggests it.  Frum will then temporarily join your party until the quest is ended.

Giselle's Quest:

Spoiler

After some time has passed, if you return to Giselle's shop and speak with Key, her assistant, you will learn that a letter has arrived in your absence addressed to Giselle.  It seems that her old mentor, a man she thought was dead, is in Amn and would like to get together with her again to catch up, and perhaps get her help on a 'tricky matter'.  Giselle will ask you to accompany her.  If you refuse, she leaves on her own and will return in a week's time.  If you accept, however, your actions and the decisions you help her to make during this quest will ultimately decide her fate later on in the game.

[theacefes]

No neutral?

[Lucia]

Hmmm.  I can't believe I hadn't thought of that.      Maybe, just maybe . . . I don't want to leave anyone out.  We'll see how this first batch of coding goes before I go "HEY!  You know what would make this EVEN BETTER?  MORE things I don't know how to do!  That'd be AWESOME!"  

*grin*

[AnnabelleRose]

Sounds promising.

Welcome to SHS.

[Miss Sakaki]

She sounds really interesting - different to the Biowares without being "special" in a forced sort of way - and I'd definitely play with her. There's a lot of mystery to her character, and you've obviously thought a lot about how you're presenting her, which is all to the good! The quests also sound cool and not too overly complicated. I'd say go for it!

[Lucia]

Thanks!  I'm working on finishing the writing right now before I start coding.  (Speaking of which, thank god for tutorials -- still easier than coding some HTML or even NWN though)  I'll probably release a bare-bones version first, SoA only, since I haven't started on ToB yet.  Here's what's done so far:

All Bioware NPC banters - 3 apiece (although certain others have one or two more)
Intro Quest (required to have Giselle join you)
Giselle's Store Dialogue (including Key, her assistant)
Joining and Leaving Dialogue Trees
6 Giselle Initiated Banters With the PC
Basic "Chat Pack" (IE, "What do you think of ____ party member?"  "What should we do now?" ect)
3 PC Initiated Chats About Giselle's past
Frum's Evil Quest (complete with Frum's small chat-pack and one banter apiece with Bioware NPCs)

Small question about interjections:  I've read a lot of reviews of other mods, and it seems to come right down the middle as to how much people think is TOO much for a chatty NPC.  Would you generally prefer it if she only commented on major quest related conversations, or do you want a chattier Giselle?  I don't want it to seem as though she always needs to throw her two cents in.

I've also started roughly sketching out some conversations with some other fan made NPCs (helps to relax me when I'm going through other seemingly endless dialogue trees).  Is there anyone in particular you would like to see Giselle banter with?  I'd have to get permission from their creators, but if I can, I'd like to include a few right off the bat with her release since so many people have other NPCs in their party anyway.  She will make vanilla comments about several of them (the ones I've played) if you ask her about them directly, but so far she doesn't actually speak to them.  What are some of those NPCs you can't live without, and who would you like to see Giselle chat with?

Also, is there anyone out there who wouldn't mind making me two custom item graphics somewhere down the road?  I'm really horrible in that department.

[Kaeloree]

I would suggest coding as you go - in the long run, it's far, far easier - as several modders here will tell you who have been trying to do it.

Sounds like you have a great lot done, congratulations... I would honestly suggest slowing down the writing a little and getting the majority of it coded - and then coding as you go, adding it as you write content. This prevents large problems down the road; if you can get a stable release done, it's far easier to add content (and then be able to test it) without worrying about bugs or problems from the basic content.

For interjections, my personal opinion is going through the dialogues and saying to yourself: "Would she really interject here? Will the interjection add to the encounter or to her personality?"

We have our own Resource Request Forum - if you post about what you need there, I'm sure someone will be able to help you out.

I'm very much looking forward to Giselle, she sounds very interesting!

[AnnabelleRose]

I would suggest coding as you go - in the long run, it's far, far easier - as several modders here will tell you who have been trying to do it.

Best advice ever.

Seriously.

I got behind once on my current project and wrote alot then had to go back and code it.

Very tedious work.

Much easier to write a bit here and there, coding as we (since I come up with some of the ideas, but sistersinister almost always helps me re-write them better) write.

[berelinde]

I echo what K and MTS say completely, but I want to emphasize another aspect of the process: test your code as you write it. Always. Because bad habits are hard to break.

This is the order I work in, with the reasons behind it. Not everyone has to do it this way, but it was always easier for me. Mind you, it's far easier to test each step as it's completed than to try to go back and test everything later.

• Joining dialogue: teaches you the basics of dialogue coding. Plus, in order to get this working, you'll have to learn how to make a CRE and write an area script and a tp2.
  
• Unscripted banter: teaches you to use CHAIN, and helps you further define the personality of the NPC.
  
• Interjections: teaches you to use INTERJECT_COPY_TRANS appropriately, and how to use state weights for CHAINs in non-joinable NPC dialogue. Also teaches you to use things like EXTEND_BOTTOM, EXTEND_TOP, INTERJECT, COPY_TRANS, ADD_TRANS_ACTION, and ADD_TRANS_TRIGGER.
  
• Friendship track: teaches you the basics of dialogue scripting.
  
• Quests: combines everything else.
  
• Romance: ditto.

[Azkyroth]

I echo what K and MTS say completely, but I want to emphasize another aspect of the process: test your code as you write it. Always. Because bad habits are hard to break.

This is the order I work in, with the reasons behind it. Not everyone has to do it this way, but it was always easier for me. Mind you, it's far easier to test each step as it's completed than to try to go back and test everything later.

• Joining dialogue: teaches you the basics of dialogue coding. Plus, in order to get this working, you'll have to learn how to make a CRE and write an area script and a tp2.

Better idea. Write and compile your entire joining scene, then set up the TP2 to install it. That way you can find and fix the various mistaken inferences you've made about proper dialogue coding while it's still manageable.

[berelinde]

We're saying the same thing, Azzy. I meant that each step should be written, coded and tested before moving on to the next.

And I do it this way myself, after having made the mistake of waiting until I had the bulk of the mod written before testing it the first time.

Edited by berelinde, 01 December 2007 - 08:22 PM.

[Azkyroth]

We're saying the same thing, Azzy. I meant that each step should be written, coded and tested before moving on to the next.

And I do it this way myself, after having made the mistake of waiting until I had the bulk of the mod written before testing it the first time.

Your phrasing didn't necessarily carry the "make the minimal set of cres and items and do the scripting" that I was trying to convey, though.