10 replies to this topic

[Amilauh]

So yes, like many people I play and play and after a while I go 'hmmm...'

To the point? Right after playing Gavin in BG for the first time. Adorable. I can't imagine how great banter's with Gavin and say oh..Edwin and Xan in BG2 would be. But it made a little nagging thought pop up. What if I tried to make my own?

Starting off with a girl though because well, I have more experience thinking in that mind set. Almost all things in this are subject to change but this is what I have so far...

Name: Shialn
Stats: (subject to change)
Strength: 16
Dexterity: 17
Constitution: 15
Intelligence: 7
Wisdom: 7
Charisma: 12
Class: fighter (may be tweaked but unlikely)
Alignment: Chaotic good
Race: Human
Romance yes
Quest Yes

BIO: Shialn is a predator through and through for all she doesn't seem to mention her heritage overly much, it's still noticeable. With slit feline eyes and nails more like claws, there is little point in hiding her apparently feline background rather, she flaunts it. Her hair is marked with natural spotted patterns declaring her of a jaguar bloodline, and there are tattoos that curve stylized about her limbs that echo the sentiment. When you ask about her past she gestures to those same things that set her apart and smirks with a comment that obviously in her family there is the blood of cats. She has traveled far and seems willing to join with you, preferring the safety in numbers while she stalks her own prey.

it is my intention to make her a romance mod for a male PC of any alignment and of human/elf/half-elf. I am toying with putting in either a CHA or STR requirement however.

This is not going to be an all around cute and fluffy mod though there will be plenty of idiocy. At times she will display bloodthirsty and rather sadistic comments especially in Ust Natha. Shialn is more like a cat then a human right down to the laziness, ruthlessness with her prey, and tendency to be utterly idiotic or full of herself. Your heritage of being a Bhaalspawn doesn't bother her, though she isn't going to be happy when you turn into (quoting the delicious Edwin mod) Spikey the lobster.
She's a chaotic good however because she is still a decent person, just like most cats she loves to hunt and sometimes that leads to killing for fun. It really depends on which 'persona' of hers is in charge, the woman or the cat.
On the other hand Shialn has a biting sense of humor, she will harrass and yet befriend most of the NPC's by bioware and hopefully some of the others. She starts out for instance, bashing Anomen and reaches a grudging respect with hints of a friendship.
She is constantly in a state of joking with Minsc and I recommend bringing him along, after all he has a plaything named Boo that tortures her constantly.
As to her unusual appearance she's with a group that's rather like the shadow druids. A group of shifter's who became overly enthralled with a wildshape and left society to pursue life with the animals. Eventually some bred with those animals (you'd think druid's would pay attention to mating seasons!) and it's diluted a great deal now. Shialn's a fourth generation descendant and cannot hold the form permanently like some of her family. The feline side is what affected negatively her thoughts and wisdom. It's quite likely she'll walk into the same trap four times or be unaware of any subtleties going on about her. Her CHA is higher then I was considering due to a friend's comment that she would appear 'exotic', and I figured she'd need to be charming to have not ended up in a zoo just yet.

sample banters

Minsc: Ho! Keep your eyes away from Boo, Shialn! Do not think we have not seen your hungry gaze sweep over his plump little form!

Shialn: Really Minsc I am not going to eat him.

Minsc: That is good news!

Shialn: He's too small for anything more then chewing on....

Minsc: W-w-w-WHAT?!


Anomen: Why is it, Shialn, that you bear such animosity towards myself?

Shialn: Hn..probably the pompous self righteous egotistical emotionally needy and abusive chip on your shoulder aura you emanate that's like that of an antisocial spoiled teenager looking for attention.

Anomen: I most certainly do not!

Shialn: And...there he goes to sulk.

Edited by Amilauh, 26 October 2007 - 10:05 PM.

[Azkyroth]

So yes, like many people I play and play and after a while I go 'hmmm...'

To the point? Right after playing Gavin in BG for the first time. Adorable. I can't imagine how great banter's with Gavin and say oh..Edwin and Xan in BG2 would be. But it made a little nagging thought pop up. What if I tried to make my own?

Starting off with a girl though because well, I have more experience thinking in that mind set. Almost all things in this are subject to change but this is what I have so far...

Name: Shialn
Stats: (subject to change)
Strength: 16
Dexterity: 17
Constitution: 15
Intelligence: 7
Wisdom: 7
Charisma: 12
Class: fighter (may be tweaked but unlikely)
Alignment: Chaotic good
Race: Human
Romance yes
Quest Yes

BIO: Shialn is a predator through and through for all she doesn't seem to mention her heritage overly much, it's still noticeable. With slit feline eyes and nails more like claws, there is little point in hiding her apparently feline background rather, she flaunts it. Her hair is marked with natural spotted patterns declaring her of a jaguar bloodline, and there are tattoos that curve stylized about her limbs that echo the sentiment. When you ask about her past she gestures to those same things that set her apart and smirks with a comment that obviously in her family there is the blood of cats. She has traveled far and seems willing to join with you, preferring the safety in numbers while she stalks her own prey.

it is my intention to make her a romance mod for a male PC of any alignment and of human/elf/half-elf. I am toying with putting in either a CHA or STR requirement however.

This is not going to be an all around cute and fluffy mod though there will be plenty of idiocy. At times she will display bloodthirsty and rather sadistic comments especially in Ust Natha. Shialn is more like a cat then a human right down to the laziness, ruthlessness with her prey, and tendency to be utterly idiotic or full of herself. Your heritage of being a Bhaalspawn doesn't bother her, though she isn't going to be happy when you turn into (quoting the delicious Edwin mod) Spikey the lobster.
She's a chaotic good however because she is still a decent person, just like most cats she loves to hunt and sometimes that leads to killing for fun. It really depends on which 'persona' of hers is in charge, the woman or the cat.
On the other hand Shialn has a biting sense of humor, she will harrass and yet befriend most of the NPC's by bioware and hopefully some of the others. She starts out for instance, bashing Anomen and reaches a grudging respect with hints of a friendship.
She is constantly in a state of joking with Minsc and I recommend bringing him along, after all he has a plaything named Boo that tortures her constantly.
As to her unusual appearance she's with a group that's rather like the shadow druids. A group of shifter's who became overly enthralled with a wildshape and left society to pursue life with the animals. Eventually some bred with those animals (you'd think druid's would pay attention to mating seasons!) and it's diluted a great deal now. Shialn's a fourth generation descendant and cannot hold the form permanently like some of her family. The feline side is what affected negatively her thoughts and wisdom. It's quite likely she'll walk into the same trap four times or be unaware of any subtleties going on about her. Her CHA is higher then I was considering due to a friend's comment that she would appear 'exotic', and I figured she'd need to be charming to have not ended up in a zoo just yet.

sample banters

Minsc: Ho! Keep your eyes away from Boo, Shialn! Do not think we have not seen your hungry gaze sweep over his plump little form!

Shialn: Really Minsc I am not going to eat him.

Minsc: That is good news!

Shialn: He's too small for anything more then chewing on....

Minsc: W-w-w-WHAT?!


Anomen: Why is it, Shialn, that you bear such animosity towards myself?

Shialn: Hn..probably the pompous self righteous egotistical emotionally needy and abusive chip on your shoulder aura you emanate that's like that of an antisocial spoiled teenager looking for attention.

Anomen: I most certainly do not!

Shialn: And...there he goes to sulk.

First observation: that is NOT INT/WIS 7 dialogue. O.o

More to follow.

[Amilauh]

First observation: that is NOT INT/WIS 7 dialogue. O.o

More to follow.
[/quote]


Hrn. Point but she WILL have extreme moments of stupidity so I was either going to raise the INT/WIS and have her be a stupid cat at points, or leave it and allow her to have some intelligence at others.

Still I admit WIS/INT aren't stats I generally pay a ton of attention to i generally shamefully take whatever I get rolled out in PC making. What would you consider a sample of that level of dialogue? Does not need to be my character either. I didn't want to overpower her stats too much and those were ones that to me made sense to lessen.

Example I had for one of the more 'cat like' moments...


Minsc: Minsc was wondering, Shialn, do you like to be petted?

Shialn: Wha?...petted??

Minsc: Yes Minsc remembers that most kitties like their heads petted, or scratched by the----er, Shialn why are you leaning into my hand?

Shialn: Pet.

Minsc: Look Boo, Shialn purrs if you scratch her ears! Just like you!

Shialn: *Purrrrrrrr*

Still thanks for the input!!

[Tassadar88]

I like the cat banter:)

And as for the previous dialogues - Minsc was cool, but - teenager is not really a FR word - the whole Anomen banter seemed somehow inappropriate :S

Shialn: Hn..probably the pompous self righteous egotistical emotionally needy and abusive chip on your shoulder aura you emanate that's like that of an antisocial spoiled teenager looking for attention.

[Pain Elemental]

You might want to watch out with the Anomen bashing, as this is done a lot and modded NPC's are not supposed to outwit a certain person everytime.
Also, because it's a bhaalspawn joinable NPC, do try and keep the spotlights on charname, as this is his story and it's about his/her conflict.
About the intelligence stat, I believe a character with 9 or less intelligence isn't able to form sentences correctly, while your banter are quite intelligent.

Edited by Pain Elemental, 27 October 2007 - 12:38 AM.

[Azkyroth]

You might want to watch out with the Anomen bashing, as this is done a lot and modded NPC's are not supposed to outwit a certain person everytime.
Also, because it's a bhaalspawn joinable NPC, do try and keep the spotlights on charname, as this is his story and it's about his/her conflict.
About the intelligence stat, I believe a character with 9 or less intelligence isn't able to form sentences correctly, while your banter are quite intelligent.

Given that 9 is average, that would be rather odd (unless the character is a 20th/21st century American). However, her sentence structure as written is more sophisticated, her use of big words more prevalent and accurate, and her viewpoint more nuanced and insightful, than would be expected of someone with her mental ability scores. I'm not entirely sure what to offer as an example, though...Minsc has similar INT and WIS scores, but he has both an accent and a rather flat (in the sense that his character is adequately described in a grammatically unawkward sentence and the general tone of his reaction in almost every situation is quite predictable, not to be confused with "cardboard") yet intense characterization.

[Pain Elemental]

Given that 9 is average, that would be rather odd (unless the character is a 20th/21st century American). However, her sentence structure as written is more sophisticated, her use of big words more prevalent and accurate, and her viewpoint more nuanced and insightful, than would be expected of someone with her mental ability scores. I'm not entirely sure what to offer as an example, though...Minsc has similar INT and WIS scores, but he has both an accent and a rather flat (in the sense that his character is adequately described in a grammatically unawkward sentence and the general tone of his reaction in almost every situation is quite predictable, not to be confused with "cardboard") yet intense characterization.

Yes, I see what you mean. I remembered something of NWN that stated that a character cannot perform normal sentences with 9 or less intelligence.

[Crazee]

I like the cat banter:)

And as for the previous dialogues - Minsc was cool, but - teenager is not really a FR word - the whole Anomen banter seemed somehow inappropriate :S

Shialn: Hn..probably the pompous self righteous egotistical emotionally needy and abusive chip on your shoulder aura you emanate that's like that of an antisocial spoiled teenager looking for attention.

Just thought I'd pop in and say that in an early Viconia LT, she refers to Imoen as a teenager, so if bioware uses it, I'd think it's okay.

[berelinde]

Mental agility, whether intelligence, wisdom or charisma, is difficult to portray in dialogue. Which is annoying, because that's the only way we have to show it. It's also difficult for a person who does have one of the three to write for someone who does not, and vice versa.

These are the definitions I use. There's a bit of overlap, and these definitions are by no means accepted as universal truth.

Intelligence: aptitude for learning, ability to comprehend complex ideas, memory, verbal articulation, ability to understand spatial relations, comprehension of symbolism.

Wisdom: perception, judgment, foresight, willpower, self-control, empathy, ability to navigate interpersonal relationships, ability to understand cause-and-effect relationships.

Charisma: personal magnetism, facility in navigating social situations, leadership ability, power to command sexual attraction, ability to connect with others (charisma attracts others to you, wisdom allows you to keep the friends you make), physical beauty.

A person with the highest scores in each of the attributes must be the best at all of those things that constitute each, and a person with the lowest scores must be the worst, but within those parameters, there's a lot of leeway. A character with a 12 intelligence might learn easily, be able to understand even the most complex ideas or symbolism, and might be well-spoken, but might have a badly faulty memory and might be forever using a bowl too small for the salad he's making, or rent a truck too small for the load it has to carry. A person with a 7 intelligence, using the convention of intelligence X 10 = IQ, would be legally considered intellectually challenged (formerly called mentally retarded). Koko the gorilla tested at an IQ of 65.

The scale might be considered exponential, rather than linear. There is less difference between 9 and 10 than there is between 17 and 18.

So, with a 9 intelligence, Shialn might be a moderately slow learner, might not understand complex issues or symbolism, might have a middling-to-poor memory, but might have a good command of the languages she's managed to learn. If her wisdom is as low as 7, which really is quite low, she might be quite impulsive, and might not be perceptive enough to form her own opinion of Anomen, but might simply parrot what others have said of him. It's quite possible that she might have heard her companions use those words to describe Anomen, and could have formed her initial impression of him based on that.

Edited by berelinde, 28 October 2007 - 05:20 AM.
So, where does spelling fit in my definitions list?

[Azkyroth]

Mental agility, whether intelligence, wisdom or charisma, is difficult to portray in dialogue. Which is annoying, because that's the only way we have to show it. It's also difficult for a person who does have one of the three to write for someone who does not, and vice versa.

These are the definitions I use. There's a bit of overlap, and these definitions are by no means accepted as universal truth.

Intelligence: aptitude for learning, ability to comprehend complex ideas, memory, verbal articulation, ability to understand spatial relations, comprehension of symbolism.

Wisdom: perception, judgment, foresight, willpower, self-control, empathy, ability to navigate interpersonal relationships, ability to understand cause-and-effect relationships.

Charisma: personal magnetism, facility in navigating social situations, leadership ability, power to command sexual attraction, ability to connect with others (charisma attracts others to you, wisdom allows you to keep the friends you make), physical beauty.

A person with the highest scores in each of the attributes must be the best at all of those things that constitute each, and a person with the lowest scores must be the worst, but within those parameters, there's a lot of leeway. A character with a 12 intelligence might learn easily, be able to understand even the most complex ideas or symbolism, and might be well-spoken, but might have a badly faulty memory and might be forever using a bowl too small for the salad he's making, or rent a truck too small for the load it has to carry. A person with a 7 intelligence, using the convention of intelligence X 10 = IQ, would be legally considered intellectually challenged (formerly called mentally retarded). Koko the gorilla tested at an IQ of 65.

The scale might be considered exponential, rather than linear. There is less difference between 9 and 10 than there is between 17 and 18.

So, with a 9 intelligence, Shialn might be a moderately slow learner, might not understand complex issues or symbolism, might have a middling-to-poor memory, but might have a good command of the languages she's managed to learn. If her wisdom is as low as 7, which really is quite low, she might be quite impulsive, and might not be perceptive enough to form her own opinion of Anomen, but might simply parrot what others have said of him. It's quite possible that she might have heard her companions use those words to describe Anomen, and could have formed her initial impression of him based on that.

A few observations of my own:

1) I've found it's helpful to conceptualize stats as being composed of sub-elements; my usual formula for Wisdom is Insight, Willpower, Guile, and Prudence (this particular formulation is useful because my own NPC is high in the first two, moderate in the third, and somewhat lacking in the last, for an end-result score of 15).

2) Charisma I especially associate with the ability to influence others at an emotional level - to persuade people in a fashion that's not reliant on logical arguments. As such, it's connected to the ability to give the impression of empathy, not necessarily to empathy itself.

3) There is a rather strange perspective in some corners that Wisdom and Charisma are linked, IE that a high score in one implies a high score in the other, and vice versa. I'm not sure where this idea came from, but it's inconsistent with the conceptualizations above.

4) Using "big words" is consistent with a low-average to high intelligence score. Using big words in moderation in a fashion that appears natural and is grammatically correct and appropriate for the context is generally associated with high intelligence scores.

5) Another common mistake seems to be difficulty separating Wisdom and Intelligence. In many cases the two scores are linked, but this is by no means necessary; it's entirely possible for a person to have a high WIS and low INT, or high INT and very low WIS. The fictional character Forrest Gump is a good example of the former, whereas this young man is a spectacular example of the latter.

[AnnabelleRose]

My thoughts mirror much of what Berelinde has already said.

I would like to add the concept is a bit too close to anime cat-girls (what little I have been forced to watch anyway).

Just never been a fan.

BUT!

There are more people then just me who play mods, and not all of them have the same taste.