67 replies to this topic

[Brad]

Another thought about the prostitution thing. I have no idea how it would fit with your thoughts on the characters, but they could be working a con game. Rolling the guys they ensnare. seems to me that would get the money coming in quicker. This would require the cooperation of those at the inn, but hey, as long as he left the regulars alone, what do they care?

[Clarion]

Elves on the whole fight the idea of prostitution, yes, but Tal fights the idea of being an elf. And the situation is only temporary until a better situation comes along. Athkatla is a very human-oriented city... where is an elf to work? Any work Tal might find is probably hiding in plain sight, where he can't find it. About him being Avariel, one, I'm planning special content for Aerie, and two, I wanted to make him a-typical. Tal has got to be the only winged elf in the realms whose one, true, most paralyzing fear... is heights. Trying for comedy value.

There are a lot of aspects to Tal's life that shouldn't be lighthearted, but Talasphir finds a way to smile anyway. The murder of his little sister, for instance. Tal prefers to remember Icaria's life rather than dwell on the fact that she's dead, and he focuses on heeding her dying wish to him, which would be, "Smile for me... big brother..." So he does, and no matter how bad things get, he still smiles.

Mm, berelinde asked about his price. Think about it this way. He's new to the city, and new to the business, so he can't charge too much, but he's not *that* cheap either. I think it would depend mostly on what he was asked to do. But if the PC needs him as a mage, well, I guess how expensive he is as a prostitute doesn't really matter:)

Wow, it seems people are forgetting all about Lonnie. Poor guy. Or is it that he's simply less controversial, and therefore less interesting? For those of you expecting the elf/half-elf avatar and paperdoll, be in for a surprise. Lonnie is no fey'ri, and therefore he'll be looking like a human with extra...well, horns, for one. But I don't think game graphics allow for that, so that'll be probably up to your imagination.

I don't think Anomen likes gnomes, dwarves, or half-orcs. But Lonnie judges more by character than by appearance.

Thanks everyone whose offered to help me learn the technical stuff. I'm working on it as I can. I'll get back to you if(when) I get stuck... Might be a while. Real life is bound and determined to get in the way.

[berelinde]

Well, Lonnie might be a tiefling, but he isn't quite as... well, you know. (shuffles feet uncomfortably, trying to find a way to change the subject)

Thanks for the reminder about writing the friendship path first. It's still valid advice. That way, you don't use up all your ideas on the romance and find yourself with a character that is only any good if you romance him.

[Tempest]

@Solstice: No Bioware npc's have anything like the background and nature that Tal does (a point in his favor). Darian's initial reaction to someone like Tal would be to kill them and put them out of their miserable existence, as well as removing a general walking affront to his people.

(Note: Again, nothing against you or your characters, Clarion!)

I'm afraid I'm with Solstice on the idea of Tal being an Avariel as awkward as hell, as there are plenty of other ways you can go for comedy value and I find his concept interesting enough as it is, but it's your call.

However, if you want some input on the friendship/romance tracks, what I did with Darian was make them actually progress along the same track-the only difference being that if you switch to the friendship path, you won't see certain talks that would otherwise appear. I have no idea if this would work for either of your characters or not, as Darian's SoA romance is very slow-building and up until a certain point could easily be mistaken by the player (if they didn't know better) for nothing but a friendship. If your characters are more straightforward in their romances, this obviously wouldn't work very well, unless they're the time to be hitting on anything that moves.

And I think Tal will always attract more attention than Lonnie. There are many more mod front-line types than mages, and in terms of character concept, Tal definitely overshadows Lonnie in terms of attracting attention.

[berelinde]

To tell you the truth, there are more mod mages than fighters. But that's neither here nor there.

There is currently only one avariel in the game. Darian will make it two, but Darian does not exactly follow cannon avariel lore. In other words, if Clarion says there's a good reason for him to be an avariel, that's good enough for me. That, and I like the idea that he's an avariel afraid of heights.

[Miss Sakaki]

I like the sound of Lonnie too, but have a tendency to pick at what I have issue with so I may have seemed like I wasn't interested in both of them - sorry if that was the case! They sound a nice complementary pair, and they also sound like they're not going to be hanging off the PC's every word because they can't cope with things (I especially like what you said about Tal's sister's death). Self-sufficient NPCs are very nice in my book.

Also, don't worry, less controversial =/= less interesting. Often if something is implemented *because* it's controversial, it ends up just seeming like it's done for shock value.

Edited by Miss Sakaki, 21 September 2007 - 01:07 PM.

[Clarion]

Ooh, shock value, thanks for the reminder. Just a note for anyone lurking who thinks either of these two are here for shock value, they're not. I'm trying to put original spins on old ideas - that, and Lonni and Tal have been floating around my head for months. About Tal's sexual preference, well, Nathaniel's nice, but he's a wee bit pickier than Tal.

Darian's reaction to Tal seems like the reaction Lonnie would have to Darian. ("Listen, you stuck-up, pompous, self-important windbag...!" "Lonnie! Try and be civil, will you?!") If there was ever any cross-mod conflict there, Talasphir would likely be holding Lonnie back from taking a swing at Darian. Lonnie doesn't quite have Tal's tolerance for people. Tal is all about life and the living of, and he's so focused on living life to the fullest that he doesn't have time to get mad at people. That, and you'll notice that his wisdom score is a wee bit higher than your standard mage's. Lonnie is about looking out for who and what he cares about. This doesn't always leave room for tact and diplomacy.

Both of them are good for friendship. Of course, on the topic of friendship, Tal is going to relate better to female characters, just like Lonnie will relate better to a fellow man. A little taste of normality, I think.

And Brad, I think you've taken my characters a little out of context...

[Tempest]

Sounds like you're set on your course. I'm still skeptical, but I've been proven wrong before, and I'll be happy to see myself proven wrong again-one of my favorite BG2 mods out there was one I almost skipped because I thought it sounded silly. I'll be happy to lend you any help I can-I've built up a great deal of the canon info on the Avariel if you need it (since Darian plays by his own rules to an extent). Good luck, which I hope you don't need.

Darian's reaction to Tal seems like the reaction Lonnie would have to Darian. ("Listen, you stuck-up, pompous, self-important windbag...!" "Lonnie! Try and be civil, will you?!") If there was ever any cross-mod conflict there, Talasphir would likely be holding Lonnie back from taking a swing at Darian. Lonnie doesn't quite have Tal's tolerance for people.

Ironically, I think Darian's respect for Lonnie would shoot up after an incident like that. And Darian can a stuck-up, pompous, self-important windbag at times.

[Clarion]

Well, if they're to your tastes, they are, if they're not, they're not. I'm not out to please *everybody*, because then I'd please no one and end up miserable.

Given your description of Darian, I don't know if Tal could keep Lonnie from trying to kill him. Nothing against Darian, just that Lonnie would be kinda set off by a guy like him. Okay, really set off. "Okay Featherhead, back off slowly and I *won't* introduce my weapon to your neck," sort of set off. "Lonnie, you have better things to do than bait perfect strangers. Now play nice, or I won't bail you out of having dinner with your mother," Tal would most likely snap back before turning to Darian, finally a little miffed, and saying, "Okay, sir, you should know that I *can* and *will* turn you into a squirrel if you can't keep your problems with me to yourself and away from Lonnie."

Maybe a lack of cross-mod stuff would be wiser Especially considering that Darian is pretty far along, and my guys are still hatching. And they'd try to kill each other. Or Tal would try something embarrassing but decidedly non-lethal. Yeah. Um...

No thanks on the Avariel lore. I mean, I well and truly appreciate it, but Talasphir doesn't need much. Not only was he born outside of Avariel society, he was likely dropped on his head as an infant, which likely re-wired his brain, hence the fear of heights, etcetera... that makes him strange.

Whee, I need sleep, and food, and then I'll start making more sense of myself. Until then, please bear with me and decipher what you can...

[Tempest]

Not only was he born outside of Avariel society, he was likely dropped on his head as an infant, which likely re-wired his brain, hence the fear of heights, etcetera... that makes him strange.

Fair enough. Again, I will be watching this with interest, and feel free to ask for help here at SHS if and when you need it.

[Clarion]

Still no sleep and barely any food since my last post, but I'm glad you found my comment amusing, Tempest. Trying to think of some other reason for Talasphir to be as strange as he is was making my head, well,

I'll probably be needing help when I get around to fumbling my coding. Right now, the ideas for banters and talks and such are zinging around my skull like rabid, manic hummingbirds, and trying to guide them to paper is like trying to get a firm grasp on smoke in a strong wind.

Gah, I'm getting sappy. Someone whack me, please...PLEASE.

I got an idea for something while I was out on a walk around my neighborhood. Part of a friendship path between Tal and a female PC, wherein Tal is going to talk about how he's been accused of thinking like a woman, and that'll lead into Tal talking about an affinity for shiny things. Would it be within reason for Tal to enchant a necklace for "one of the most amazing women he's ever met"? I was thinking, wearer under effect of True Sight, Infravision, and (possibly, POSSIBLY) Negative Plane Protection, though that last one is totally iffy. It's just that a female Charname is going to be someone Tal likely relates to, admires, and genuinely likes, and come one girls, lurkers and posters alike, you have to admit most of us love shiny objects!

[Tempest]

Gah, I'm getting sappy. Someone whack me, please...PLEASE.

*Takes a nearby wrench and begins to cackle maniacally*

I was thinking, wearer under effect of True Sight, Infravision, and (possibly, POSSIBLY) Negative Plane Protection, though that last one is totally iffy.

A permanent true sight effect? That strikes me as a bit too overpowered, especially for something acquired as a friendship gift-it would render all illusion spells completely useless, including the ever-popular improved invisibility, shadow door, and mirror image spells. Negative Plane Protection and Infravision, sure-Fade gives the player a fairly powerful necklace with similar effects-but I'd call a true sight necklace out of line.

[Clarion]

Interesting. I just thought Infravision and True Sight because Talasphir is, after all, a Diviner, and those are technically spells of divination... Maybe True Sight once/day instead of a permanent effect? And here I thought it was the Neg. Plane Pro. thing that would hang people up... Tal just wants his friend, who constantly has enemies flinging themselves at her, to see them coming. So, charges, somewhere between 1-3?

And Tempest, about the wrench, I said "whack", not "completely obliterate"!!!

[berelinde]

True Sight is rather a high octane spell. Maybe 1x/day?

[Clarion]

1/day sounds reasonable. I had originally thought constant effect because (at least on my machine) True Sight is crap and it doesn't kick in for several turns, if at all. My enemies can cast Invisibility and stay invisible despite True Sight, so I hadn't considered it an over-powering effect. Actually, I'd thought it a moot point, but if the spell works for other people, I guess it would be somewhat overpowering. And Infravision is moot unless PC is human. Wow. Sounds like I need to sleep before I open my mouth and say something about an idea that turns out to be reeeeeeeally stupid...

[Azkyroth]

Let's say Lonnie and Talasphir would rather you take them together, but hey, you don't have to. If you need a mage but not a fighter, tell them that. If you need a fighter but not a mage, tell them that too. They'll understand. Distance won't stop them talking about each other, though. I'll see what I can do about a dialogue option along the lines of, "So, tell me about that guy you were traveling with..."

And you're right, Tempest, about the fact that prostitution isn't going to raise the money properly...but it's the best thing he can think of considering that his only other marketable skill is magic, and we're talking Athkatla here.

I'm not planning on making them too fun, just not too angsty, if there's a difference. Although, Lonnie will probably be a lot less lighthearted than Tal. On the bright side, if you're planning on making a half-orc of any non-evil alignment, these guys'll offer a new option for loving.

Cross-mod stuff... Hmm, I'd been contemplating that, but I'm really, REALLY open to ideas and suggestions. Though I'm not sure what Tal would have to say to another Avariel, considering he was born outside of any Avariel community, and knows very little about the Avariel culture. So, on conversing with Darian, it would depend on whether or not Darian was interested in talking to him. On that note, it would depend on any mod NPC having any interest at all, or rather, their creators having any interest at all in conversation with Tal and/or Lonnie.

I think I'm predicting questions about romance conflicts... Well, let's see. Maybe I'm not predicting anything and I'm getting rusty as a psychic...

But romance conflicts! Talasphir really won't have any. Considering that he's male, and only romanceable by males, when competing with the ladies, his thoughts are, "Well, Charname's either going to like her, or me." If there's any cross-mod stuff with Nathaniel, Talasphir would likely step aside. And then there's Solaufein to think of...

Lonnie conflicts, well, there's Anomen from Bioware, and so very many mod NPC's. But, if you're planning on playing a gnome/half-orc/dwarf, that cuts the options for conflict down considerably. He's likely to butt heads with Anomen unless PC isn't to Anomen's liking, but cross-mod conflicts will depend on what the writers of the other mods think.

For my own NPC's part, I can say that Arkalian would have less of a problem with him than most of the other NPCs are likely to. All cheerful, lightheared characters tend to get on her nerves, but she doesn't really have a problem with people who are various synonyms for "weird." Her thoughts on his prostitution would be "you're really ok with that...?" and that would be about it. If he's not terribly familiar with his people's background, they'd have that in common (Arkalian is, to simplify slightly, a third-generation half-elf, and has never had any significant contact with full-blooded elves of any sort), and I'm sure he'd appreciate her non-judgemental view if he could see past her often sardonic demeanor. As for romance conflicts, Arkalian will definitely have a romance option for male protagonists and a romance option for female protagonists is a definite possibility (read: it's on my to-do list...somewhere near the bottom *shrugs*), but she won't compete for the player's affections, and won't pursue a romantic relationship if the PC indicates interest in someone else (and won't seriously pursue a relationship--romantic or platonic--at all if the PC doesn't indicate interest in such).

Now that I've thoroughly jumped in over my head, I'm going to go back to arguing with my computer over just what I AM and AM NOT authorized to do. Does anyone else hate Vista as much as I do?

I've never touched it. Who the hell's computer are you using? O.o I would STRONGLY suggest getting yourself a copy of XP if it'll work on your computer.

Then you might want to rethink his background-he could be stopping in the inn after being a hired wizard for a caravan guard detachment or something along those lines.

That...was eerie. O.O

I was thinking, wearer under effect of True Sight, Infravision, and (possibly, POSSIBLY) Negative Plane Protection, though that last one is totally iffy.

A permanent true sight effect? That strikes me as a bit too overpowered, especially for something acquired as a friendship gift-it would render all illusion spells completely useless, including the ever-popular improved invisibility, shadow door, and mirror image spells. Negative Plane Protection and Infravision, sure-Fade gives the player a fairly powerful necklace with similar effects-but I'd call a true sight necklace out of line.

Maybe for TOB? O.o

BTW, something I think someone mentioned, but that I strongly recommend: write bios. In detail. What I've found helps a character's believability enormously is to make a list (mental is fine) of all their personality traits that stand out, and try to fit a plausible influence on the development of each into the character's backstory. I'm not sure this can be emphasized enough. O.o

[Clarion]

Oooooookay. Necklace of many overpowered and/or useless effects -> back burner to simmer a while, will come back to it if something useful and balanced can be made of it.

LONNIE: Hey, do I get to give my buddy a gift?

TAL: You've never really been the gifting type, Lonnie. Besides, for a friendship track, what would you give another *guy*?

LONNIE: Oh. Um... Hey, how 'bout a drink?

TAL: (affectionately annoyed) You lush, you take *every* opportunity to drink. Do you really want to be relating potentially humiliating anecdotes about yourself...again?

LONNIE: Oh, shut up Tilasiphuzzy.

CLARION: Boys, shut it, both of you! And a sample of just how these two interract. Of course, we three will be trying not to break the fourth wall and all that, but they shall snipe at one another. Lonnie will continually slaughter Tal's name, Tal will persist in prodding at Lonnie's drinking habits, and I hope people get a good laugh out of them. Go ahead, ask them questions. It'll help me think, and the "Ask Lonnie/Tal" won't be in another thread for just that reason. I'm trying to scrape together some idea of where I want to go with them before I mire myself in over my head.

[Tempest]

And Tempest, about the wrench, I said "whack", not "completely obliterate"!!!

Tempest: Oh, if I wanted to "completely obliterate", I wouldn't use a wrench. *Spies a chemical thrower out of the corner of his eye, grabs it, and loads it with liquid nitrogen*

Darian: Tempest, I'd say your particular brand of insanity is rubbing off on people.

Tempest: I already know that. Cmorgan and Berelinde were proof enough.

Xarana: An effeminate Avariel prostitute, though? Oh, Darian, the look on your face is worth a thousand gold.

Darian: He is not an Avariel, much less one of the Menel'Quessir. He is simply a piece of wretched filth whose miserable existence should be brought to a swift and permanent end. And as a practical matter, I cannot see you being remotely happy with him or his friend, either.

Xarana: True. He is little more than detritus-a product of the corruption of civilization, and when I bring that civilization crashing down, he will either adapt or be cleansed with the rest. And his mixed-breed friend is an abomination of nature.

Darian: I am duly stunned by the irony of your last comment, seeing as how you yourself are a half-elf.

Xarana: I am one of the Shadow Circle.

Darian: Nevermind, then.

Tempest: Sorry about that. Their bickering occasionally gets a little out of hand. But for the record, I did find the Ask Darian thread to be well worth the trouble-people ended up making good questions that made me think a little harder than I intended, and I found it was overall a good idea, even if it does have occasional side-effects like having two characters running around inside your head constantly bickering with each other.

And the necklace as a true sight 1x per day item sounds good to me-as you said, Tal is a diviner, and it makes sense.

[berelinde]

Tempest, you've got a special thread for PVP posting.

[Clarion]

Working on bios. In my head, at least, because actually getting things down on paper is something I'm not very good at. I'm on Vista because this is my mtoher's computer - I pretty much blew mine up in a wild surge concerning a program for running .rar files.

TAL: Darian, who said my existance was "miserable"? Live is for the living man, even the temporary setbacks. What I think is that yours is the miserable existance. Are you always this angry? If so, I pity you. I do. And I am an Avariel - here, have a feather. For some reason they get visible after they're plucked.

LONNIE: *Why* do you even bother with this...this...(and here we see that drinking has fried Lonnie's brain a bit. Please wait ten minutes while he searches for the right word...) jackass?! And Xarana, if you so much as look at me, I'll show you who's 'detritus'!

TAL: Do you...even know what that means, Lonnie?

LONNIE: Uh...no, not really.

TAL: Then you should *really* stop picking fights. And by the way, I don't effeminate *that* much, do I?

LONNIE: (grinning wickedly) Did you really want me answering that?

TAL: No. Ah, but Tempest, people are free to ask us anything here. Clarion likes keeping everything in one jumbled mess, after all. I swear that girl needs *help* with her organization.

CLARION: Hey! Okay Tal, you're right, but still, someone resorting to prostitution shouldn't be pointing out *my* flaws and mistakes!