67 replies to this topic

[Clarion]

Allow me to open my ideas up for uber-flaming

Lonnie and Talasphir, friends forever:

Talasphir Elandinai, male Avariel Diviner. The only winged elf in the Realms afraid of heights. Chaotic Good. Romanceable by males of any race/stats, of any Good/Neutral alignment. Talasphir likes everyone, tries his best to get along. He'll chat with Keldorn and Mazzy as easily as Edwin and Korgan, though, not everyone will like him in return. Well, such is life. Bioware's elves are all so angsty and woe-is-me, or at least extremely serious. Talasphir is decidedly not serious.

His own Stats:

Str: 9
Dex: 14
Con: 10
Int: 18
Wis: 14
Cha: 16

Lonnie, male tiefling(there's so many lady tieflings out there, and HD's not always everyone's cup of tea...), kitless Fighter. Chaotic Good. Born to a human mother on the Prime, has no idea what the Planes are like and doesn't really care. Romanceable by females of any race/stats/non-evil alignment. Affectionately known as Lonnie the Lush, Lonnie is possibly the happiest, goofiest drunk you'll ever meet. Maybe he's not the brightest plate in the kitchen sink, but he's (at least he's supposed to) got a charm all his own.

Str: 17
Dex: 14
Con: 15
Int: 9
Wis: 8
Cha: 14

If anyone ever wanted to go looking for these two, assuming they ever make it to mod status, they would be found in the Den of the Seven Vales, Lonnie finishing patrons' leftover drinks, and Talasphir working as a prostitute to work up the funds to pay for a magic liscense. Assuming anyone would want to take them along, there would be much bickering between the two. Best friends they've been for several years, and picking at each other is a hobby.

There aren't any real bios, and won't be unless someone finds these two interesting, but I do have a way to explain Talasphir's lack of wings. His last lover was a wild mage. Their breakup was ugly, and Ellis(the wild mage) challenged Talasphir to a mage duel. Ellis lost, riding the crest of a wild surge. He turned Talasphir's wings invisible, and then turned himself into an imp.

I know elves and tieflings have been over-used. On that note I wanted to make some a-typical characters, mostly just there to make people smile. Romances that start physical (if that's what Charname wants) and grow into emotional, romances where you don't have to help your lover through some epic problem (Aerie's wings, Anomen's sister/knighthood, Khalid's death, etc...). The most dramatic sub-quest would probably be dinner with Lonnie's family. Of course, his mother's the south-bound end of a north-bound ogre with a penchant for collecting unusual mates, but she's no Lord Cor.

So, flaming/shooting down season is officially opened Think fun-loving Lonnie and Talasphir would be fun to play with despite everything? I'd try to make their mod myself, but there's just certain things I shouldn't be trusted with. Like playing with anything technical. On that note, I'm going to hide now...

[berelinde]

I tried, I really tried. But there's nothing here not to like.

These guys sound great. I wish this were in the Mod Ideas board instead of the Orphanage.

[Clarion]

You...wouldn't be open to...um

You know anyone who might be interested in doing the technical stuff, would you?

[berelinde]

All I can say is start writing. I can't promise that I can code it for you, but I can help you learn to write code yourself.

Read some of the tutorials, check out some mods for examples, and then check the tutorials again. And if that doesn't work, send some PM's. You can do this.

These guys sound like a good addition to BG2. I'd certainly download the mod.

Edit: I've read a bunch of your posts, Clarion, and I can tell you've kissed the blarney stone. Your posts suggest that you would write decent dialogue, and I'd like to see what you can do with a mod.

Edited by berelinde, 20 September 2007 - 05:21 PM.

[Clarion]

Thank you, berelinde! You're a really nice person, you know that?

I've tried reading some of the tutorials, and it just seems to suggest you need some degree of, if not technical know-how, than at least technical non-stupidity, and therein lies my problem. That, and I'd have to feel comfortable writing dialogue banters with other peoples' characters. All the same, I greatly appreciate your words. I'll give it a try, I think... So, I guess these guys should be moved if they're not orphans anymore?

So much for cutting the apron strings...

[berelinde]

Moving to mod ideas because it isn't dead yet!

[berelinde]

I'm moving this to mod ideas because you've got enough to run with.

Check out the tutorial threads, and then shoot me a PM if you get stuck. We can work through this.

[Clarion]

Wow, coolness!

You're awesome, berelinde. Well and truly awesome.

I'll be getting back to you after I re-read the tutorials, take notes, and wander headlong into a tarpit

And anyone else who wants to comment on Lonnie and Talasphir, Friends Forever? After this boost of self-esteem, I doubt any amount of shooting down could actually take me down, so have at it!

[Azkyroth]

Speaking as someone who learned dialogue coding in the past two weeks, I can probably be of service here. ^.^

(Incidentally, is it a bad sign that the first thing that comes to mind every time I see a decent or better idea for a new NPC mod is evaluating the likely direction of crossmod banter? O.o)

Edited by Azkyroth, 20 September 2007 - 07:05 PM.

[Solstice]

Nope, Azzy, I'm the same way (and the thought of crossmod banter between Talasphir and Darian, SHS' homegrown Avariel, makes me chuckle).

Got a question, though, Clarion: do you have to take them together? I'm not fond of the mechanic, because it leaves me less room for customizing the rest of the party. I would certainly take them both my first time, but I find myself very rarely taking linked npc's after that first run (Kiara-Zaiya, Kova-Kiyone, probably the Luxely brothers).

[Azkyroth]

Nope, Azzy, I'm the same way (and the thought of crossmod banter between Talasphir and Darian, SHS' homegrown Avariel, makes me chuckle).

Got a question, though, Clarion: do you have to take them together? I'm not fond of the mechanic, because it leaves me less room for customizing the rest of the party. I would certainly take them both my first time, but I find myself very rarely taking linked npc's after that first run (Kiara-Zaiya, Kova-Kiyone, probably the Luxely brothers).

Yeah; unfortunately, a lot of players aren't real fond of this set up--I suspect this is why Bioware discontinued it after BG1, and broke the links for NPCs they carried over by killing off the less popular of the two (at least, I'm pretty sure it's the case for Dynaheir, and I hope that's the reason they killed Khalid, as opposed to for the sole purpose of allowing the PC to screw Jaheira without starting a fight in the party--which the author of the wretched BG1 novelization reportedly did, only to have him come back and die again in the beginning of BG2. Or something like that; I never wasted my time reading them, personally). That said, if your characterization ideas demand it, it's probably worth going along with. Although, it occurs to me that one or the other of them going with the party, and the pair spending some time apart for the first time (for quest/plot reasons), would actually make for a lot of interesting character development opportunities.

[Tempest]

I have to agree on the linked-npc thing, though I would certainly take both characters together my first run anyhow.

That aside, this does look like it could be interesting, but I'd like to point out that Talasphir being a prostitute to work up enough money for a magic license, aside from me wincing at the idea, doesn't work very well. The bribe for a magic license is *expensive* in the DnD world, and while the party doesn't have much trouble working up that much money, it is far more than a prostitute anywhere in the Realms is likely to earn in their entire lifetime-even an elven lifetime.

I also have to agree there are far more dark and brooding characters than there are light-hearted ones, and I am only contributing to that imbalance, but I don't mind-overly "fun" characters wear real thin on me real fast (Imoen and Alora in BG1, Peony in IWD2 NPC Project, and so on and so forth). Regardless, I will be watching this with interest.

[Clarion]

Let's say Lonnie and Talasphir would rather you take them together, but hey, you don't have to. If you need a mage but not a fighter, tell them that. If you need a fighter but not a mage, tell them that too. They'll understand. Distance won't stop them talking about each other, though. I'll see what I can do about a dialogue option along the lines of, "So, tell me about that guy you were traveling with..."

And you're right, Tempest, about the fact that prostitution isn't going to raise the money properly...but it's the best thing he can think of considering that his only other marketable skill is magic, and we're talking Athkatla here.

I'm not planning on making them too fun, just not too angsty, if there's a difference. Although, Lonnie will probably be a lot less lighthearted than Tal. On the bright side, if you're planning on making a half-orc of any non-evil alignment, these guys'll offer a new option for loving.

Cross-mod stuff... Hmm, I'd been contemplating that, but I'm really, REALLY open to ideas and suggestions. Though I'm not sure what Tal would have to say to another Avariel, considering he was born outside of any Avariel community, and knows very little about the Avariel culture. So, on conversing with Darian, it would depend on whether or not Darian was interested in talking to him. On that note, it would depend on any mod NPC having any interest at all, or rather, their creators having any interest at all in conversation with Tal and/or Lonnie.

I think I'm predicting questions about romance conflicts... Well, let's see. Maybe I'm not predicting anything and I'm getting rusty as a psychic...

But romance conflicts! Talasphir really won't have any. Considering that he's male, and only romanceable by males, when competing with the ladies, his thoughts are, "Well, Charname's either going to like her, or me." If there's any cross-mod stuff with Nathaniel, Talasphir would likely step aside. And then there's Solaufein to think of...

Lonnie conflicts, well, there's Anomen from Bioware, and so very many mod NPC's. But, if you're planning on playing a gnome/half-orc/dwarf, that cuts the options for conflict down considerably. He's likely to butt heads with Anomen unless PC isn't to Anomen's liking, but cross-mod conflicts will depend on what the writers of the other mods think.

Now that I've thoroughly jumped in over my head, I'm going to go back to arguing with my computer over just what I AM and AM NOT authorized to do. Does anyone else hate Vista as much as I do?

[Tempest]

Let's say Lonnie and Talasphir would rather you take them together, but hey, you don't have to. If you need a mage but not a fighter, tell them that. If you need a fighter but not a mage, tell them that too. They'll understand. Distance won't stop them talking about each other, though. I'll see what I can do about a dialogue option along the lines of, "So, tell me about that guy you were traveling with..."

Sounds like a good compromise.

And you're right, Tempest, about the fact that prostitution isn't going to raise the money properly...but it's the best thing he can think of considering that his only other marketable skill is magic, and we're talking Athkatla here.

Then you might want to rethink his background-he could be stopping in the inn after being a hired wizard for a caravan guard detachment or something along those lines. The only mages in Athkatla that practice magic openly are Cowled Wizards and those with the contacts to ensure they don't have interference (Edwin's contacts within the Shadow Thieves, Nalia's family connections, Haer'Dalis/Jan I don't think care, and Aerie wouldn't know magic is restricted).

Though I'm not sure what Tal would have to say to another Avariel, considering he was born outside of any Avariel community, and knows very little about the Avariel culture. So, on conversing with Darian, it would depend on whether or not Darian was interested in talking to him.

A wingless Avariel born outside the Avariel community working as a prostitute in Athkatla with same-sex interests... the best Tal could hope for would be Darian utterly ignoring him as being beneath his notice. If Tal were to strike up a conversation, Darian, for his part, would almost certainly react with open disgust and hostility, and Aerdrie Faeyna help him if Tal identifies himself as an Avariel. I see some potentially interesting Tal-Aerie stuff in the making, though. And don't let this discourage you-this is just a case of one npc with a half mile of steel rod up his posterior who would consider Tal to be about a half step above a growth of green slime.

Absolutely nothing against Tal or your idea, mind, and I'm certain Tal would get along well with many, if not most, other mod characters, depending on how he turns out. Take it from someone writing his own mod-a finished character can look very different from the character you had on paper when you started.

[Kaeloree]

I can imagine him resorting to prostitution. Prostitution in the right places can earn you a *lot* of money; you just have to know where to go.

Considering he is very charismatic, I can't see it as a huge stretch.

[Clarion]

@ Tempest: Tal isn't wingless. His wings are there...you just can't see them, but you can feel them if you ask nicely. You can thank Ellis (his wild mage ex-lover) for that one. And I plan on a special friendship between Tal and Aerie - she reminds him of his sister Icaria. Icaria also presents an interesting track of conversation with Anomen, considering she's dead.

Tal and Lonnie have been the best of friends for roughly eight years, and they've been traveling. Funds were never an issue until they came to Athkatla... home of the Shadow Thieves. Now they're broke. Thieves these days. No respect for other people's property. Tsk tsk.

A wizard with no connections and no license, yes, Talasphir resorts to prostitution, at least until a better idea presents itself. He also sweeps floors occasionally for Miss Patricia, and Lonnie passes for a guard, so that's how they manage to keep rooms at the Seven Vales, that, and he's the one male Patricia(at least, I think that's what her name is...) likes. He's sufficiently girly that she's actually rather fond of him.

Darian sounds like the kind of guy Tal would have a good laugh at, really. Tal likes to poke fun, not mean fun, just fun at people who think he's a half-step above a growth of green slime

EDIT: The caravan guard idea thing would have been great if it weren't completely out of Tal's character. It's a little too merc for him. Coming along with Charname to help Charname get their little sister back is very Talasphir. Being a hired sword, er, spell isn't really him.

Edited by Clarion, 20 September 2007 - 10:10 PM.

[berelinde]

I like the idea that Tal's working as a prostitute to scrape together some funds. Sure, he knows that he's in for a long haul, at current Athkatla rates, but it allows a lot of really cool dialogue possibilities with other NPCs and with the PC. There are prejudices to be overcome, stereotypes to be overturned, opportunities for even monochromatic BioWare NPCs to take on a little personality. (I imagine that poor judgmental, repressed Anomen would have a good deal to say on the subject!)

Is he an expensive prostitute or a cheap one, though? He doesn't strike me as quite sophisticated enough to be *too* exclusive, but he doesn't seem like he'd sell himself for pennies just to afford another hit of black lotus, either.

Arrrgh! Now I'm doing it! The thing with a character with such an original background is that it's easy to get tunnel-vision and focus only on the quirks. These guys are great, both of them, and I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with them.

[Miss Sakaki]

Hey Clarion, I'd just like to add another voice of encouragement at this point. Learning to code is a big task (and one that I still have problems with) but I can't put it any better than Berelinde - read lots of tutorials, look at mods for examples (don't look at the current SoA Nathaniel, it's a script shambles), and ask if you have questions. The worst thing to do is to try to struggle on without help. Although I have enough on my plate that I can't do large chunks of code for you, I'd be happy to help if you run into problems or just have questions generally. As someone who has (for my sins!) done a bunch of NPC-pair coding and scripting in the Luxleys, I've pretty much got my head around the mechanics of it.

Aaand now for the idea itself. You've got a lot of stuff in this mod: two fully-fledged NPCs - who will banter between themselves - plus two romances. I remember reading Berelinde saying somewhere that the best idea is to write friendship tracks for your NPCs and then the romance - that way, you'll make sure you have a character that doesn't need the romance to be fully enjoyed by the player. I'd definitely recommend that approach! Just bear in mind that this will be a LOT of work.

Class-wise: cool. Having a fighter and a mage should make people more likely to spare two party slots for them, rather than having two mages or whatever.

The prostitution thing makes me raise my eyebrows a bit, not because I think it's too shocking but because I wouldn't really want to see a light-hearted approach to it. It's a nasty job, and he's doing it because he can do nothing else, which seems at odds with the fun NPCs rather than angsty NPCs concept. I think I'd prefer him to be waiting tables or as you said sweeping, rather than getting into issues that will be more gritty. And! I'd want to have repercussions in the romance about the prostitution.

I'm kinda not sure about Tal being Avariel. I have issues with elves because of their long lifespan (which is not really explored in the game) and their different ways of life to humans - but then lots of players do like elves a lot. Still, if I were working on this I think I'd try imagining Tal as human and seeing whether it would affect his dialogue and his story with Charname, and if it didn't make a lot of difference I'd switch him.

Anyway, good luck!

probably the Luxely brothers

They're cousins. I need to get K'aeloree to change that!

[Tempest]

Can't really say much the others haven't. I've learned coding from tutorials, posting chunks of code and getting feedback on what I've done right and wrong, and how to fix it. Always look for help if you're having trouble-we won't bite, I promise.

Darian sounds like the kind of guy Tal would have a good laugh at, really. Tal likes to poke fun, not mean fun, just fun at people who think he's a half-step above a growth of green slime

Yep, easy enough to see, though this is one of the few situations in which I can ever forsee Darian getting outright nasty-if Tal were to try striking up a conversation, it would not be out of character for Darian to immediately cut him off with something along the lines of "Do not presume to speak with me, saura'vas." Saura'vas, in case you're wondering, is the elven word for "filth".

[Solstice]

He's likely to butt heads with Anomen unless PC isn't to Anomen's liking, but cross-mod conflicts will depend on what the writers of the other mods think.

If it has female plumbing and isn't a gnome, Anomen's interested.


I really do have to second concerns about Tal being an elf, though-especially an Avariel. Elves find the concept of prostitution absolutely abhorrent, and would never resort to such a thing unless there were truly no other option. And in Tal's case, I'm not sure if being an elf, let alone an Avariel, would add much to his character. You've got a great personality and concept in mind, so work with that-I don't think you should arbitrarily make him an elf. You've got plenty of material to work with as it is with him being human.

And on an unrelated note, I'm a little surprised Darian would be so vehement. He's amicable enough with other characters, even those who like to poke fun at him. But seeing someone from Tal's background poke fun at him would be wonderfully entertaining.

Er, didn't mean to sidetrack anyone with the Darian-Tal stuff. Just occured to me as interesting.