368 replies to this topic

[Shae]

Forgive me for kinda sneaking into the thread here and throwing something in but...

On the subject of a foot-bow, using two feet just seemed like it would be a little inaccurate not to mention difficult to see your target. After reading the comments about bows and archery an alternative (but probably more awkward) pose popped into my head. So here you go:



(The spyglass is only there so the other arm can actually be doing something useful. And as you can see I decided that the whole thing should really be silted down more but was to lazy to redraw it all)

Anyway regarding this thread, so I can just pick something, ask for any details and try sketching it out?

If that is the case, then I might give Iconic Characters - VII a go (I take it 'bard race' means a race that can be a bard, as in not an elf) though did you have anything specific in mind for 'odd clothes?' (as in a different culture, a mix of things, completely bizarre or a very mismatched mix of things)

[Orthodoxia]

Jaz, having a quiver at the back of the leg might be very very uncomfortable as it would probably hit their butt every time they crouched or bend their leg. And making the quiver longer isn't the problem, this is still just a sketch. The Boss has yet to approve it

[Jazhara7]

Jaz, having a quiver at the back of the leg might be very very uncomfortable as it would probably hit their butt every time they crouched or bend their leg. And making the quiver longer isn't the problem, this is still just a sketch. The Boss has yet to approve it

Of course. These are all just suggestions (an a large part of it is hyperactive happy-ranting, which you may or may not ignore. Remember, I love knowledge, and I sometimes forget that others might not be as eager as I am to gain new knowledge at all times, once I get going. )

Oh, and I realised that the back of the leg quiver might not be a good idea either, as you said. Not only because it might hit their rear when they're crouching (I was only thinking of when they're flying or standing, in which case the angle of the lower bird leg would be perfect to stop that), but because with long arrows, that would mean it could get in the danger of hitting their wings. So, back to the drawing board, as they say, with that idea.

And of course it's Deathsangel decision that counts in the end. And we have to remember this is all fiction. We don't actually have to construct it, though it would be good if things would work at least in theory.


Oh! And I just realised that the shield of the second one is an owl! Awww! That's so awesome! I love owls.




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Edited by Jazhara7, 24 September 2008 - 02:49 AM.

[Orthodoxia]

Jaz, having a quiver at the back of the leg might be very very uncomfortable as it would probably hit their butt every time they crouched or bend their leg. And making the quiver longer isn't the problem, this is still just a sketch. The Boss has yet to approve it

Of course. These are all just suggestions (an a large part of it is hyperactive happy-ranting, which you may or may not ignore. Remember, I love knowledge, and I sometimes forget that others might not be as eager as I am to gain new knowledge at all times, once I get going. )

Oh, and I realised that the back of the leg quiver might not be a good idea either, as you said. Not only because it might hit their rear when they're crouching (I was only thinking of when they're flying or standing, in which case the angle of the lower bird leg would be perfect to stop that), but because with long arrows, that would mean it could get in the danger of hitting their wings. So, back to the drawing board, as they say, with that idea.

And of course it's Deathsangel decision that counts in the end. And we have to remember this is all fiction. We don't actually have to construct it, though it would be good if things would work at least in theory.


Oh! And I just realised that the shield of the second one is an owl! Awww! That's so awesome! I love owls.




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Don't mind me, you know I like when you start ranting, although that wall of text was pretty damn frightening. You made me worry if I even could draw a bow and arrow properly

It's a stone idol. It's an owl but it's also a stone idol My skills in drawing fail.

[Galsic]

Also, I agree on the wings. That's a common error with wings. People don't realise how large wings would have to be to carry a human, at least one that has a normal human body structure. Sure, the needes size could be reduced by streamlining the body, removing all necessary fat (sorry guys, I'm afraid that means no boobs on the ladies. And no curvy buttocks either. Not many curves at all, actually. Only the necessary things. ), stronger muscles in the chest area (we would need a larger sternum too, most likely. Those muscles have to be attached to something, after all. Maybe there's be some upper chest area after all, though I'm afraid it would be on both genders. Also, no squishyness, just firm muscle. ) and saying that they have hollow bones. The final result could still look human, though it would be in an eerie, lithe kind of way. That way you could get away with slightly smaller wings, though still not too small. But no, people insist on simply sticking a pair of undersized wings on the back of a normal human, and call it a day. Heck, it's not even with winged humans. Did you see Dragonheart? Watch the trailer, and see that scene where Draco appears over the hill, with the sun in his back? Great wings, right? Well, you know what? They are too small! Yes, they look right, and in proportion. And they do, and are. They're just too small for lifting a creature of that size in the air, if that would even possible. (The developers actually admit that in the making of, though they tried to do their best. But since it's only a movie, I think they did a pretty good job). Though the wings of the birdmen in your example really are an extreme.

I've always wondered a bit about the logic of trying to apply human (or realistic altogether) conventions to various areas of fantasy. Perhaps this isn't necessarily the case with the archery bit, but the size of wings, for example, could probably be explained in a number of ways. I've rarely seen dragon's wings bigger (at least in proportion to body size) than those on Draco. Perhaps the hydrogen gas he builds up in his belly to breath fire also helps to lighten the weight of his body for flight. Also note that many animals, like chimps, are much stronger for their size that humans. Perhaps the bird people simply have a different muscle structure superior to that of humans such that they don't require the level of "streamlining" that you suggest. If you want, you could look at other known fictional races, like Vulcans or Klingons. Elf ears and bony ridges aside, they look like humans and yet they have 3 or 4 times the strength, no? Or maybe magic has something to do with it. Yeah, in fantasy, magic can explain away everything .

As for the last sketches that Orthodoxia posted, they seem to display her usual artist charms (yes, that's a good thing). And her wings are certainly more impressive than those on the other bird people shown. I wonder, though, whether Deathsangel just wanted birdy claws or if he wanted the whole legs. Plus, they might not be very conducive to the use of the foot bow. Either they're too long for the purpose of drawing the bow or the knees threaten to get in the way. Those questions aside, I likes where the sketches are going.

[Deathsangel]

Poof, one day off line... and all go japping and talking that makes me need 15 minutes to catch up with what is going on....

I am touched. Didn't know you would miss me that much

Okay, now my own very long mail
I won't quote everything of Jahzara, I will just here and ther comment on it through all this, because I am not going to quote all that text... Heck, I love discovery and learning, but here it is going to go bonkers. Perhaps MSN or PM might be wise

So many helpful advices

Ok, here are some preliminary pencil sketches. So you know, I was planning to put them together when done and colored.

Oh, where to start... showering you with kisses...?
They are so good, I am slightly adjusting my setting.
Okay, it is hard to begin somewhere so I will just go on ranting so to say.

First of all. Please, stop calling me 'boss'... it makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. It makes me feel like I am a slave driver.
About the drawings (and sideway comments to that.

* At first I had envisioned them with only bird like-claws instead of feet. Not the entire leg. However, seeing that now, I reckon it way better than I first imagined.
I will change my other subrace (with the butterfly wings) to have probably normal legs than, but this is a good way to go. Unlike Galsic his worries, this also aids in the bow drawing now that I think of it. The legs can be folded now half under the body, whereas the bird part still goes sideways down, where the bow can be stringed on. In that way the quiver comes sides ways of their hip seeing how the joints can bend, and wings in Hovering with all birds tend to take a hollow stand to keep lift (yes, they can always Hover Jazhara, they get that feat for free).

* The wings are nice in size in this case. Though the left wing (right for us) of the lady is too low at the connection point, though that might be my skewed vision on as we see her trois-quart.
The bend might be a bit too low (tiny bit, I believe the hip is the lowest point If you calculate it back... also the bend may be a bit rounder; less of a sharp angle.
(Jazhara, they are indeed described to have have hollow bones (-2 Con, as they are more fragile - after all they break easy). Unlike Jazhara's comment ladies may show breasts - after all there are more birds with fat. They are, however, more rare. Think of the walking birds)
(Galsic, the Faëlicae are said to have -2 Strength as they need put part of their muscle development from their arms into their wings... that is actually quite limited so yeah, a bit strong wings )

* The lady looks a bit too haughty looking if you don't mind me saying; like in she may have a warmer smile

* To help with what is in her hair, Faëlicae like simple things. They rather where rings of carved oak or so, than gold.

* To be honest I also thought it was a shield... Still I am sure you can make it into a symbol

* P.s. I would love to have the divided and collected version.. This as that gives me freedom where to put them in the book.

Forgive me for kinda sneaking into the thread here and throwing something in but...

On the subject of a foot-bow, using two feet just seemed like it would be a little inaccurate not to mention difficult to see your target. After reading the comments about bows and archery an alternative (but probably more awkward) pose popped into my head. So here you go:



(The spyglass is only there so the other arm can actually be doing something useful. And as you can see I decided that the whole thing should really be silted down more but was to lazy to redraw it all)

Anyway regarding this thread, so I can just pick something, ask for any details and try sketching it out?

If that is the case, then I might give Iconic Characters - VII a go (I take it 'bard race' means a race that can be a bard, as in not an elf) though did you have anything specific in mind for 'odd clothes?' (as in a different culture, a mix of things, completely bizarre or a very mismatched mix of things)

Shae, thanks for dropping in. I don't mind at all more started that way. On the Faëlicae however, those are now for Orthodoxia so to say. Your way of drawing the bowdraw looks ... uncomfortable, but thanks for sharing that is for sure.
P.s. You do know you claw on the bow is faced wrong right? Otherwise the entire joint can shift 180 degrees in your drawing
Also... what do you think of getting new arrow with the other hand?

And yes, pick one ask for details if necessary. Sketch, show, constructive critiscim as much as I can (not in much criticism but critiscism you hopefully can follow and have some use for), and than go ahead.
And no, Elves can be bards, this is a Setting based on D&D, not the AD&D rules BG2 uses. Bard races are races that take to the bard class, so Human, Half-Elfs, Gnomes and Elves in particular. Half-Orcs do not take to it, and Halflings have no special need for the Bard Class, Dwarves do not have an extensive music culture. You may try a Faëlicae, but they are now going to look the way Orthodoxia drew them. Unless you want to try the other genus; Faëyawyn.
The clothes are meant to be odd like that off a court Jester. This is meant for a setting unique prestige class. It is called the True Jester, and is like the Jester of BG2. A bard that instead of aiding his allies, adversely effects his enemies.

P.s. Did I cover it all?

P.p.s. Orthodoxia and Jahzara your eggs have been clicked

Edited by Deathsangel, 24 September 2008 - 02:02 PM.

[Jazhara7]

Don't mind me, you know I like when you start ranting, although that wall of text was pretty damn frightening. You made me worry if I even could draw a bow and arrow properly

It's a stone idol. It's an owl but it's also a stone idol My skills in drawing fail.

I'm sorry if I scared you. Don't worry, you did very well. In fact, you did very well - There's not much you can do wrong when drawing a bow - if it looks like it works, especially how the material strains against each other (a bow is permanently under stress, obviously.). Bows don't even have to be symmetrical, Some Asian bows are definitely not symmetrical, especially some horse bows (as otherwise they'd be too large for use on a horse. This doesn't apply to all horse bows, of course.).

Oh, that reminds me. If you ever draw a bow that is being transported at a time the owner is not planning to use it at a short notice, draw it unstrung. You should never store a bow strung, as not giving the material time to relax in-between use will damage it. For shorter periods, it can be left strung. But when you turning in for the night, anyone archer who knows what they are doing will unstring their bow.

Also, it is I who should have realised that that's not a shield he's leaning on. He's using a bow after all, so he won't be using a shield. Feel free to hit me over the head for that, okay? O.o

Also, I agree on the wings. That's a common error with wings. People don't realise how large wings would have to be to carry a human, at least one that has a normal human body structure. Sure, the needes size could be reduced by streamlining the body, removing all necessary fat (sorry guys, I'm afraid that means no boobs on the ladies. And no curvy buttocks either. Not many curves at all, actually. Only the necessary things. ), stronger muscles in the chest area (we would need a larger sternum too, most likely. Those muscles have to be attached to something, after all. Maybe there's be some upper chest area after all, though I'm afraid it would be on both genders. Also, no squishyness, just firm muscle. ) and saying that they have hollow bones. The final result could still look human, though it would be in an eerie, lithe kind of way. That way you could get away with slightly smaller wings, though still not too small. But no, people insist on simply sticking a pair of undersized wings on the back of a normal human, and call it a day. Heck, it's not even with winged humans. Did you see Dragonheart? Watch the trailer, and see that scene where Draco appears over the hill, with the sun in his back? Great wings, right? Well, you know what? They are too small! Yes, they look right, and in proportion. And they do, and are. They're just too small for lifting a creature of that size in the air, if that would even possible. (The developers actually admit that in the making of, though they tried to do their best. But since it's only a movie, I think they did a pretty good job). Though the wings of the birdmen in your example really are an extreme.

I've always wondered a bit about the logic of trying to apply human (or realistic altogether) conventions to various areas of fantasy. Perhaps this isn't necessarily the case with the archery bit, but the size of wings, for example, could probably be explained in a number of ways. I've rarely seen dragon's wings bigger (at least in proportion to body size) than those on Draco. Perhaps the hydrogen gas he builds up in his belly to breath fire also helps to lighten the weight of his body for flight. Also note that many animals, like chimps, are much stronger for their size that humans. Perhaps the bird people simply have a different muscle structure superior to that of humans such that they don't require the level of "streamlining" that you suggest. If you want, you could look at other known fictional races, like Vulcans or Klingons. Elf ears and bony ridges aside, they look like humans and yet they have 3 or 4 times the strength, no? Or maybe magic has something to do with it. Yeah, in fantasy, magic can explain away everything .

"A twelve ounce bird cannot carry a one one pound coconut!"

The same goes for a 4 metre wingspan not being able to carry a 2 metre human!

You make some good points. Things like the hydrogen gas, for example, could work. But it probably wouldn't be enough. The problem with muscles is that they weigh a lot, due to being more dense (hence you can't really lose weight by working out, just volume. Once you start getting those muscles in shape properly, your weight is bound to go up again.). So, while you can have stronger, larger muscles to lift you up, that also means you will be more heavy...and thus require more strength to lift you up. So the solution cannot be in the muscles alone. Of course you can train to gain the muscles and strength required to lift yourself in the air, but once you've reached that goal, you will weigh more. You have to make up for that added weight in some other way. One example would be the hollow bones of birds. That already makes up for a lot of weight. Also, like I said, "unnecessary" things such as curves. Then of course there's feathers, which I recall make it possible to not have the wings themselves create a larger wing area, while not adding too much extra weight (if you've ever eaten a roast chicken, you will probably have noticed that the "wings" look rather puny, if you think how large feathered wings look in total.). The shape of the flight feathers serves helps to cut the air, as well as form the general shape of the wing, which serves to create a *drag* upwards (the same principle is used in plane wings, with the bottom of the wing being more flat, and the top being more curved, causing air below the wing to flow more quickly than the air on top of the wing, thus causing a suction upwards.

Different birds fly in different ways. Pigeons and Humming Birds (Good gods! Especially Kolibris!) have relatively small wings compared to their size. They make up for that with fluttering (A *lot* of fluttering for Humming birds.). At least pigeons don't seem to have too much difficulty taking off from the ground (it's also interesting to note that their feet are adjusted to *walking*. Other birds have to hop, while pigeons have to walk. Dodos were close relatives of the pigeons we see every day, but they of course had lost the ability to fly.). I don't know how well a Kolibri could take off from the floor. I just know that they drop dead if they go without food foor too long (like, more than an hour, going by a story a teacher told us from his military time, where they were camped in the jungle, and a Kolibri got stuck inside their tent. They were unable to get it out, though they did try, and after about an hour it died, much to their dismay, because it didn't have any energy left. Birds have a high metabolism to start with, and I guess combined with speed at which Kolibris move their wings, that requires a constant intake of food to make up for that consumption of energy.)


Other birds, like most larger birds of prey and scavengers (the Condor being the supreme example) have huge wingspans. As a result, they have no problems soaring (given that there is currents to soar on, which is why the larger ones live in areas where those are to be found. Smaller birds of prey can make do with the smaller air currents found over the general landscape, but a Condor needs quite strong currents to carry its weight effectively. It would be doomed in relatively flat lands, except maybe flat deserts, though that also only during the day.), not requiring to beat their wings at a fast rate. I don't know how well they can take off from the ground. I think the larger the predator, the more likely it is they require a ledge or branch of a certain size to take off properly. I recall a bird trainer saying something about how they have to "launch" these birds into the air by either throwing them (that was a wild bird being released into freedom, after being treated for illness earlier), or moving the arm they perch on up forcefully - it's not just for show, but serves a purpose.
For these birds, a large part of their body is wing, and thus feather.


So, it is most likely phsyically possible to some of these creatures to fly with the wing size they are given, but most likely it would not have developed that way. Dracos wings at least would have reached farther back along his body (don't misunderstand me, please. Dragonheart is one of my top favourite movies.) - and he's definitely more streamlined than the dumpling shaped dragons you see so often. If they had designed him more streamlined, it would have been more realistic, but it would have lead to his appearance giving a much different impression. Instead of majestic and imposing, he might still look majestic (though in a different way, but rather intriguing. And seriously, some of the scenes in the movie wouldn't have worked with a streamlined dragon.

Soo, you can't really change much *different* about muscles. There's only so many different types of muscles that are known on Earth. Klingons and Vulcans might have different kinds of muscles, though that is likely due to different natural influences: Be it slightly higher gravity requiring stronger muscles to allow upright walking, or maybe a different atmosphere (though this is out, since they don't require space suit in oxygen atmosphere. Also, I recall humans on Vulcan without space suits.) that would cause a different development of muscles. But most dragons and other fantasy settings are based on what we know from Earth. Even those from other dimensions. Sooo...I guess magic really is the key.


Doxie's sketches really are good. And that's a larger wingspan than just 4 metres. So no complaint from me.


And I think we should get back on topic. Sorry for derailing this topic so much.





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Edited by Jazhara7, 24 September 2008 - 01:32 PM.

[Deathsangel]

Can't resist nature lover and bioligist in me.... must say stuff...

... I don't know how well a Kolibri could take off from the floor. I just know that they drop dead if they go without food foor too long (like, more than an hour, going by a story a teacher told us from his military time, where they were camped in the jungle, and a Kolibri got stuck inside their tent. They were unable to get it out, though they did try, and after about an hour it died, much to their dismay, because it didn't have any energy left. Birds have a high metabolism to start with, and I guess combined with speed at which Kolibris move their wings, that requires a constant intake of food to make up for that consumption of energy.)...

Untrue, that is more probably due to stress. Actually you could have known this from the BBC documentary you link to. They sometimes fly over great vastness of waters, like the Gulf of Mexico. They can live for several hours without food, though they eat a much higher quantity of sugar for their need for energy. Hummingbirds hardly ever sit still, but can take of with incredible ease.

. I don't know how well they can take off from the ground.

Poorly, they tend to used ledges. They can take of from the ground, I have seen them do it, but they tend to hop first before really flying.


P.s. Faëlicae have poor ground movement. Yes, I take a lot into account.

.... Star Trek stuff...

I am not a Trekkie myself, but my friend and he is scientific... funny thing. In several of the old episodes Spock claims his world has a less dence air (he climbes out of sphere while being in the startosphere) and stuff like that... while humans walk their with ease.
Denser gravity would indeed cause thicker muscles, but also the Klingons to walk on all fours.
Star Trek is not a good place to use biology on

Okay that is enough with all this off topic rant. Seriously I mean it...

Edited by Deathsangel, 24 September 2008 - 01:56 PM.

[Galsic]

Meh, muscle mass isn't everything in strength, but I won't elaborate on that here. The point of my last post was that it isn't necessarily a good idea to apply human biology to things that, well, aren't human, especially where the fantasy genre's concerned.

Unlike Galsic his worries, this also aids in the bow drawing now that I think of it. The legs can be folded now half under the body, whereas the bird part still goes sideways down, where the bow can be stringed on. In that way the quiver comes sides ways of their hip seeing how the joints can bend, and wings in Hovering with all birds tend to take a hollow stand to keep lift (yes, they can always Hover Jazhara, they get that feat for free).

Well, my worries were based on my lack of knowledge of how the faelicae actually work them foot bows, which likely would have to be reworked if you adopt Orthodoxia's version. In fact, I still can't quite picture how it would work based on your above description (a simple illustration would probably help on this matter).

[Shae]

Ah, I didn?t mean to seem like I wanted to take over the Faëlicae. I was just suggesting a different pose for the footbow that popped into my head.
Ps: I? don?t think the foot is backwards? The leg holding the bow has its knee facing away from the viewer, probably doesn?t look like it much because the sketch is rough.
I guess the other hand could draw arrows? Though if they were ambidextrous (and had a quiver strapped to the side of each thigh) then they could alternately shoot with either hand.

Rightyo, that all makes sense to me. I?ll see what I can sketch up for the bard

[Orthodoxia]

Oh, where to start... showering you with kisses...?
They are so good, I am slightly adjusting my setting.
Okay, it is hard to begin somewhere so I will just go on ranting so to say.

First of all. Please, stop calling me 'boss'... it makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. It makes me feel like I am a slave driver.
About the drawings (and sideway comments to that.

* At first I had envisioned them with only bird like-claws instead of feet. Not the entire leg. However, seeing that now, I reckon it way better than I first imagined.
I will change my other subrace (with the butterfly wings) to have probably normal legs than, but this is a good way to go. Unlike Galsic his worries, this also aids in the bow drawing now that I think of it. The legs can be folded now half under the body, whereas the bird part still goes sideways down, where the bow can be stringed on. In that way the quiver comes sides ways of their hip seeing how the joints can bend, and wings in Hovering with all birds tend to take a hollow stand to keep lift (yes, they can always Hover Jazhara, they get that feat for free).

* The wings are nice in size in this case. Though the left wing (right for us) of the lady is too low at the connection point, though that might be my skewed vision on as we see her trois-quart.
The bend might be a bit too low (tiny bit, I believe the hip is the lowest point If you calculate it back... also the bend may be a bit rounder; less of a sharp angle.
(Jazhara, they are indeed described to have have hollow bones (-2 Con, as they are more fragile - after all they break easy). Unlike Jazhara's comment ladies may show breasts - after all there are more birds with fat. They are, however, more rare. Think of the walking birds)
(Galsic, the Faëlicae are said to have -2 Strength as they need put part of their muscle development from their arms into their wings... that is actually quite limited so yeah, a bit strong wings )

* The lady looks a bit too haughty looking if you don't mind me saying; like in she may have a warmer smile

* To help with what is in her hair, Faëlicae like simple things. They rather where rings of carved oak or so, than gold.

* To be honest I also thought it was a shield... Still I am sure you can make it into a symbol

* P.s. I would love to have the divided and collected version.. This as that gives me freedom where to put them in the book.

NOTE: I've edited that post where the images are.

All right all right, no more "Boss" calling, though you're sure an excellent substitute for one

I don't know how fair it is that something I draw changes bits and pieces of your world but as far as the legs go I can tell you one thing. Only those with firm grasp on both human and bird anatomy can pull off bird's feet on human legs otherwise it would look hideous, I know I've seen. When I've read the description it never crossed my mind to draw them like that.

Now, let's see, as far as perspective goes I think that the joint on her left wing is now in good place otherwise it wouldn't make much sense. And I do draw wings with intention that the joints be flexible enough for a humanoid creature, as I've often done on my bhaalspawn. As for decorations, I'll add them when I start coloring. I'll use earthly and warm colors on them. And on the male birdie picture the other wing will fade into background because it didn't have nay more space on the paper >.< and I detest drawing on the computer.

Also, [Force Persuade] You like the cute owl idol. You like the cute owl idol.

Edited by Orthodoxia, 25 September 2008 - 02:14 AM.

[Deathsangel]

All right all right, no more "Boss" calling, though you're sure an excellent substitute for one

I don't know how fair it is that something I draw changes bits and pieces of your world but as far as the legs go I can tell you one thing.

I don't know if the substitute thing is a good thing or a bad thing... Are you sure you like drawing this stuff for me?

Haha, bits and pieces of my world? The only fact I changed is bird-like legs and made the claw damage to 1d6 instead of 1d4
Here is a picture of another creature with bird like legs , if anyone ever wants another reference. I had imagined the legs more like that, though a bit more human in the upper part of the lower leg and more wide. Like the picture I showed. However, I like it this way. It is not a major difference and makes them more satyr and centaur like, which is actually what I want them associate them more with than with Elves.

So many helpful advices

EDIT: Inked versions.

.... Still hoping you will make the bend in the wing (at the joint on the right wing (left for us)) a little rounder. This as I would like it to be a ball-and-socket joint. If it will be that way, they can bend their wings to cover them as well in the front. Yes, I deviate here from the normal bird anatomy.

Good Bow Nice big one, with two handles flanking the shaft area. Might be nice to have the outer two be even a bit more segmented into three, so it is more clear.

Now, let's see, as far as perspective goes I think that the joint on her left wing is now in good place otherwise it wouldn't make much sense. And I do draw wings with intention that the joints be flexible enough for a humanoid creature, as I've often done on my bhaalspawn. As for decorations, I'll add them when I start coloring. I'll use earthly and warm colors on them. And on the male birdie picture the other wing will fade into background because it didn't have nay more space on the paper >.< and I detest drawing on the computer.

Also, [Force Persuade] You like the cute owl idol. You like the cute owl idol.

The skin color may vary from simply caucasian to a mediterranian darkness (both would be appreciated to show difference in the race).
Warm colors are perfect! As for normal clothing as to show a bit their class.
They live in mountain and mountain valleys, mainly temperate mountains, sometimes cold ones.
They need not have decorations, but I saw you added them to woman so that is why I told you so...
Wing fading to black is fine.

I... I... seem to like the owl symbol very much... somehow it is sooo pretty (seriously I like the idea, no worry)

@ Galsic... man how to draw that? There is a reason I ask for artists... Unless you promise to draw a correct one for me whilst in the air trying to shoot an arrow I really don't want to humiliate myself

Edited by Deathsangel, 25 September 2008 - 02:43 AM.

[Shae]

Okay sketch done, I quickly added blocks of shades to show what various things will be:


So... Likes, dislikes, suggestions? (Oh and I know one hand looks three-fingered, I'll see what I can do to fix that) Also didn't know if a background was needed or not so I threw one in

[Deathsangel]

I love it.

Especially the expression on the face are really nice.
I don't know if the man on the (our) left is having a pistol holder around his leg, but I would like that. After all it is a steampunk setting.
As for the color patterns. Although a much done scheme, I would suggest red and white for the socks.
Problably shades of toxic green, bright yellow and orange for the suit. Perhaps you know some other extravagant combinations?
Perhaps logical, but when the final one is done, can the link to deviantart be removed?

For the rest you are good to go my androgynomous non-aging artist


@ Orthodoxia. Someone of my play testing group suggested using feather on the upper part of the legs of the Faëlicae to make it less compact. Do you think that would look well on them? (or Jazhara7 or Galsic? Seeing you also thoroughly enjoyed the discussion)

[Galsic]

@ Galsic... man how to draw that? There is a reason I ask for artists... Unless you promise to draw a correct one for me whilst in the air trying to shoot an arrow I really don't want to humiliate myself

Well, seeing as this would be for demonstrational purposes and not for showing off your artistic sKeeLz, um, draw a stick figure ?

As for the feathers-on-upper-leg suggestion, I think a bit of the transitional quality of the man-to-bird appearance would be lost if you put the feathers on, but that's really not an issue for me. I think it would look cool either way .

Edited by Galsic, 26 September 2008 - 02:26 AM.

[Shae]

Yep, a pistol holder was my intention, I drew it with a flat that closed over the top. However I can change that so you can see the gun. You say steampunk, so are there any specific guns that you have in mind? Since they tend to differ in appearance the more modern they get.

Those colours sound great, a royal purple would work well with them too (goes well with all three, orange, lime green and bright yellow).

I just have a habit of including the link, it can be removed with no problems

I was thinking black or brown for the hair (or even red), unless they had some unusual hair dye colours around too.

Alrighty, onto the colours it is.

[Deathsangel]

@ Galsic... man how to draw that? There is a reason I ask for artists... Unless you promise to draw a correct one for me whilst in the air trying to shoot an arrow I really don't want to humiliate myself

Well, seeing as this would be for demonstrational purposes and not for showing off your artistic sKeeLz, um, draw a stick figure ?

As for the feathers-on-upper-leg suggestion, I think a bit of the transitional quality of the man-to-bird appearance would be lost if you put the feathers on, but that's really not an issue for me. I think it would look cool either way .

Okay, a stick figure it is. Proably tomorrow though I need to go to a party.

Hm... Do you think so, perhaps it is better without feather than. A biologist in my group thought it too much weight, but it also a bit of fantasy right?

[Orthodoxia]

Ok, I'm back (don't know for how long) and this is an unfinished sample. I still have to add deeper shadows and what not. Just tell me if I'm on the right track. I'll be honest, now that I look at it I kind of like it.

EDIT!

Edited by Orthodoxia, 28 September 2008 - 09:30 AM.

[Deathsangel]

Oh you are definately on the right track!
The feathers are just the right colours, and the colour scheme makes it nice and warm, although a few small things I would ask.

* The knee pads of metal are logical but I would still request to be as metalless as possible. So the hair strings rather of bark, and the necklace more of flowers or so?
* Her hair a few shade more towards black. Seeing the race differts less in hair colour. Her eyes can remain.
* Drop the pants slightly over the bird-leg part here and there. Otherwise it looks like the leg is joined to the green pants
* Seeing she is supposed a druid, you may want to mess her hair a bit by a few strands here and there forward? She looks a bit too clean, if you know what I mean
* I reckon the claws need to be a dark yellow, as that is more bird like... but I wonder if that will aid the picture and race... keep that as a final change and see which is best

@Shae: Well I rather mean a pistol naturally, but not one in specific but older ones with a revolving chamber or one shot. Not a modern clip pistol.

For the rest (mainly Galsic though) attaching my horrible stick figure... The bow is not drawn in the correct perspective, but I thougth it otherwise hard to see what I meant. The arrow is supposedly between the legs.

Attached Files

•  horrible.bmp   758.72K   378 downloads

Edited by Deathsangel, 28 September 2008 - 03:41 AM.

[Orthodoxia]

Right, I'll get to it. Though I wish you've told me straight away about the knee pads