Bluenose, on Aug 20 2007, 12:30 PM, said:
It seems that they aren't talking about making as big a change as they did from 2nd to 3rd edition. "It's still going to be the D20 system." is more or less a direct quote from the Gencon announcement. Some things are going to change though. If it's similar to the way the latest Star Wars ruleset went, then they're going to simplify some things while making others rather more complex. Some changes that seem likely:
Classes are changing so that you have to select which abilities you want to develop, rather than automatically gaining the same ones as every other member of the class. So a rogue won't necessarily gain sneak attack, if you don't want it, but might gain some abilities that are now available only from particular prestige classes. If you've enough ranks in Stealth, you might be able to gain some of the abilities of a shadowdancer, or ones similar to an assassin if you select different talents.
Skills are being simplified. Some are merging - Stealth will probably replace Hide and Move Silently, Perception(?) will replace Spot, Search and Listen. There also won't be skill points any more. Instead, you'll get a certain number of skills that you are Trained in, and others that you Focus on. Anyone will be able to use a skill with a bonus of 1/2 level + characteristic bonus, but you'll get a bonus if you're trained and a larger one if you're focused.
No more iterative attacks - if you want to attack more than once in a round you'll need to select Talents or Feats that enable it.
At least one of the races from the PHB is going, probably replaced by the Tiefling.
One of the current base classes is going, with my bet being on the Monk.
More racial abilities come into play and can be developed, and it's possible that there will be racial classes, rather as there were in Original D&D.
It's likely that characters will have special abilities that they can use a certain number of times in an encounter, or per day, or at will. This suggests something like the Tome of Battle system, or along the lines of the Reserve feats from Complete Mage.
Yeah, I looked a bit into it now all over the place. I doubt about the common strategy for most of it though. What I mean?
Well, they want to simplify the system (as IMO they already tried from 2 to 3/3.5 E) as to also attract new customers. I doubt this will help. Roleplaying is something you are attracted to or not. Simplifying the system like that will actually, I reckon, hold people back as too game like and not realistic.
I doubt if the different choices at different levels do not actually make it easier to play. Of course it gives freedom, but it also makes experienced players that teach the new ones overwhelm them with info (something of which I always get the complement for bringing it slowly and managable) of choices and 'paths' they can take.
Yeah, racial classes I can remember, but I wouldn't mind a book more like a compendium for racial substitution levels as they stand in the 'Races of...' books. I don't by these books for I don't like all the material in it... too much half freaky races (though you also have a third party book for that with even half-corpereal races... but they worn for this) and things that go a bit far. I don't see the Illuminati develop from humans via evolution... what brings blue glyphs around your head? I just don't think they need to put that all back.
I rather like the Monk, but I can understand the descision, if it would be this class.
I actually have no trouble with the Gnomes identity. Seeing them, to as they say in my country go quick around the corner (which means saying something rough), as a more friendly type of Dwarf with love and joy for nature and gems, but not for true hard work. They are in between the halflings and dwarves in my eyes... If they would through them away they will take away their setting Dragonlance though as there they play a very special role. I wonder how they would convert it. Actually, for many pure races this indeed true, Ebberon would be annoyed if the Halflings go and so on... their the half race of Half-Orcs play a role in one of the Dragon Markes houses. Still I agree with Kellen that half-races are more easily made (add stats devide by two to do it simply) thus such a race can be easily scraped... still adding Tiefling. They are nice, but just as much sub-race as half-race. Why them instead of Aasimar, I do not understand unless you want a more dark world...
I have my doubts as well about abilities usuable per encounter. Those that have it like i.e. Warlock and Dragon Shaman are now called under the very powerful, if not overpowered classes. If it goes that way that means we have very powerful classes and lot of things are going to be slightly over the top. Certainly if they introduce the new
HP system of the Starwars thing. This is quoted from internet: You gain your hit dice back per hour, only critical hits cause now wound points of which you have much less.... That doesn't sound realistic, and thus right to me,
hp is already a bit odd, but to let it come back per hour and only criticals do real pain. That means you can combat unendlessly and takes the edge away from it.
Bluenose, on Aug 20 2007, 12:30 PM, said:
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P.s. I wouldn't be surprised if they did because they need better cash flow. As of late books weren't selling that well as well... they weren't bringing out that good books as a lot of people also state in forums and reviews.
They've probably lost my money, although I'll but a PHB just to look through the rules. Looking back overe release dates in the past though it isn't that strange that there's a 4th edition 10 years after the 3rd. It's 3.5 that really looks like an anomaly.
I actually enjoyed 3.5 for its well deserved given upgrades to things like some classes, the very complicated jump check making people wanting always to be 'very large for their race' and a few spells that got, IMO, nice overalls (though I was more for the Mordakainen, Melf, Bigby etc. names from Greyhawk).
I can understand the new version in years, but I always had the feeling 3.0 was short lived and 3.5 was it well made upgrade. That is out shorter and I rather enjoy this system, whereas
AD&D i.e. had all those things with armors having different protection values against different weapons. Given in that makes it more realistic, like also the wound penalty to THACO (no that is not in
BG2), but made it game with just a bit too many rules. I am afraid 4th edition is just going to be a bit too over the top with cutting down the rules.
Solar, on Aug 20 2007, 09:00 PM, said:
Or better yet where in nine hells have some willingly demonic races gone, such as the Fey'ri.
Fiend Folio in 3.0 Edition if I am correct
Tempest, on Aug 21 2007, 12:37 AM, said:
My friends and I have agreed, though-we're sticking with 3.5E. We like it, and don't see the need for a new system.
With my stated doubts and such I indeed will certainly stick with 3.5. I may look in 4, but even if it better than I thought I probably (99,5%) stick with it cause of all the material that is already there and I am not going to buy the upgrade.
Maybe when they have seen their errors, refert some things back. Make it good compatible with 3.5 again... then I'll buy 4.5 stuff
That was my, as much as I tried, argumental opinion.
Last thing that crosses my mind is that it is of course a subjective opinion and I rather enjoy 3.5 seeing the changes from
AD&D (miss some stuff though, but Unearthed Arcana can help with that... for some parts, as well as house rules), but it always was indeed a steep learning curve. More so because we experienced lot get all books in there that we can get... Renewal might be good thing and perhaps I will be proven wrong. If not, I won't trade my books this time so I always will have them for a good round of 3.5
D&D
scary picture that 
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