48 replies to this topic

[Bluenose]

Announced at GenCon, the 4th edition D&D rules will be released next year with the Players Handbook coming out in May, the DMG in June, and the (first) Monster Manual in July. And I think this is the point at which they finally lose me. I may buy a copy of the new PHB to see what it's like, but given the amount of money I've spent on 3rd/3.5 supplements I don't think I'll be moving on to a new edition. More information will probably be available on the Wizards of the Coast website, but it's currently down.

[vilkacis]

WizaaaaaaAARRRRDS!


I still haven't bothered to learn 3E rules.

[Tempest]

Wow... I think I'm just going to stick with 3E. I don't even want to think about the amount of money I've spent on DnD stuff (various handbooks being the big offenders)-4E is just too far.

[berelinde]

No wonder I couldn't get the Monstrous Compendium for Faerun.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Arg, for a creature of Chaos, the rules have always been the same, there are none!

[Azkyroth]

Arg, for a creature of Chaos, the rules have always been the same, there are none!

Isn't a commitment to a lack of rules a rule in itself?

Anyway, I hope this means they'll be making some of the 3E supplements available like they did with 2E :/

Edited by Azkyroth, 17 August 2007 - 12:40 PM.

[Pandæmonium]

The best part about any new edition is all the bitching and moaning from the players. Dragon magazine was probably at its most entertaining around late 2001 when pretty much every letter was somebody BAWWWing about the new rules and how much they hated WoTC.

[Solar's Harper]

I guess its just a matter of how some people interpret these rules. I for one am still kinda pissed with some of the 3rd edition changes, some heavy overbalancing and underbalancing in some places.

Ah well, life's tough. Get used to it.

[Lord Ernie]

The best part about any new edition is all the bitching and moaning from the players. Dragon magazine was probably at its most entertaining around late 2001 when pretty much every letter was somebody BAWWWing about the new rules and how much they hated WoTC.

Quoted for Truth.

I'm curious as to what they'll do with things. Also, as someone who tends to play most of D&D online these days, the announced 'digital tabletop' sounds very, very interesting.

[Bluenose]

The best part about any new edition is all the bitching and moaning from the players. Dragon magazine was probably at its most entertaining around late 2001 when pretty much every letter was somebody BAWWWing about the new rules and how much they hated WoTC.

Quoted for Truth.

The same thing happened when 2nd edition came out, and 3rd, and 3.5. Nowadays I find it quite funny to watch, if not to participate in.

For sheer vitriol nothing I've seen can match the reaction to Traveller: The New Era got from many old CT/MT fans.

I'm curious as to what they'll do with things. Also, as someone who tends to play most of D&D online these days, the announced 'digital tabletop' sounds very, very interesting.

It does look that they're trying to make playing online a major part of the game. That's actually a bit off-putting for me, but I'm lucky enough to have a good group of players around. Certainly though some of the Digital Initiative proposals look like making online play really practical. Though I hope it will be possible to use 3.5 rules with this, since I'm a little worried about the direction the 4E rules may be going. I have a feeling that they will be similar to the Star Wars: Saga Edition rules, which took the game in a direction I don't really like. But until there's more information out it's not really possible to judge things fairly.

Though having looked at a few of the previews, Dwarf as a class is a real blast from the past.

[Solar's Harper]

It does look that they're trying to make playing online a major part of the game. That's actually a bit off-putting for me, but I'm lucky enough to have a good group of players around.

Ah, the greater emphasis on online roleplaying, the more a product is likely to die once people grow tired of it offering only problems for one reason or another.

I'm not really a fan of wide internet play either, but a bunch of people like you said really make the experience worth it. Tis the one problem with online though, always uncertain about some important outcomes, and consequences could be very real with some people that you don't really want around.

Let's just hope they find a balance between the two, online is good, but not so good if you go to extreme of extremes, y'know?

[Deathsangel]

Hm... I wonder what rules they change... I am quite happy with the 3.5 rules edition. They are quite logical and straightforward. I reckon I will stick with those. I ain't going to trade again like I did for my 3.0 corebooks to 3.5 corebooks (I kept the rest).

P.s. I wouldn't be surprised if they did because they need better cash flow. As of late books weren't selling that well as well... they weren't bringing out that good books as a lot of people also state in forums and reviews.

Edited by Deathsangel, 19 August 2007 - 11:38 PM.

[Bluenose]

Hm... I wonder what rules they change... I am quite happy with the 3.5 rules edition. They are quite logical and straightforward. I reckon I will stick with those. I ain't going to trade again like I did for my 3.0 corebooks to 3.5 corebooks (I kept the rest).

It seems that they aren't talking about making as big a change as they did from 2nd to 3rd edition. "It's still going to be the D20 system." is more or less a direct quote from the Gencon announcement. Some things are going to change though. If it's similar to the way the latest Star Wars ruleset went, then they're going to simplify some things while making others rather more complex. Some changes that seem likely:

Classes are changing so that you have to select which abilities you want to develop, rather than automatically gaining the same ones as every other member of the class. So a rogue won't necessarily gain sneak attack, if you don't want it, but might gain some abilities that are now available only from particular prestige classes. If you've enough ranks in Stealth, you might be able to gain some of the abilities of a shadowdancer, or ones similar to an assassin if you select different talents.
Skills are being simplified. Some are merging - Stealth will probably replace Hide and Move Silently, Perception(?) will replace Spot, Search and Listen. There also won't be skill points any more. Instead, you'll get a certain number of skills that you are Trained in, and others that you Focus on. Anyone will be able to use a skill with a bonus of 1/2 level + characteristic bonus, but you'll get a bonus if you're trained and a larger one if you're focused.
No more iterative attacks - if you want to attack more than once in a round you'll need to select Talents or Feats that enable it.
At least one of the races from the PHB is going, probably replaced by the Tiefling.
One of the current base classes is going, with my bet being on the Monk.
More racial abilities come into play and can be developed, and it's possible that there will be racial classes, rather as there were in Original D&D.
It's likely that characters will have special abilities that they can use a certain number of times in an encounter, or per day, or at will. This suggests something like the Tome of Battle system, or along the lines of the Reserve feats from Complete Mage.

P.s. I wouldn't be surprised if they did because they need better cash flow. As of late books weren't selling that well as well... they weren't bringing out that good books as a lot of people also state in forums and reviews.

They've probably lost my money, although I'll but a PHB just to look through the rules. Looking back overe release dates in the past though it isn't that strange that there's a 4th edition 10 years after the 3rd. It's 3.5 that really looks like an anomaly.

[Solar's Harper]

Well to me it sounds like they're starting to head in the right direction, but then again I'm easy to convince

At least one of the races from the PHB is going, probably replaced by the Tiefling.

Wonder which one.
Still one thing has always annoyed me.
Is that under the 3E set, Tieflings are a subrace under human almost everywhere I look. C'mon that ain't right, whatever happened to those with elven or dwarf bloodlines?
Or better yet where in nine hells have some willingly demonic races gone, such as the Fey'ri.

Ah well don't mind my rant, I can rest easy knowing most of my fears about the changes are put to the side for misplacement, that's enough for me.

[Kellen]

I'm actually somewhat worried about them replacing a race. I've not had an opportunity to try everyone of them, but for one of them to vanish, and to be replaced with a Tiefling...

[Isilven]

As if $20-$40 a book for 3E-3.5E wasn't enough, now I have to replace my and my husband's combined collection (worth hundreds, if not a thousand, dollars)

[Tempest]

If a race gets replaced (of the core races-every new book and its grandmother included a new race and half a dozen new [mostly prestige] classes), my bet's on gnomes. DnD's never quite decided just what they are-the Races of Stone and Complete Handbook on them disagree sharply, and they just fail to stand out very well. Granted, there have been some memorable gnomes, but they really don't have a strong, coherent identity as a race.

[Kellen]

Aye, I would have to agree with that, well the lack of Racial identity bit. I'd much rather see the loss of Half-Elves, Elves, or perhaps Half-Orcs.

Half-Orcs because they are such an underpowered and underused race, and if you don't have Half-Dwarves, and Half-Gnomes, Half-Halflings why should you have Half-Orcs and Half-Elves. Elves because they are over-used, and have the strongest link out. They just finish retreating to their cities.

Or not. Anyways, here's hoping they don't destroy something good.

[Tempest]

They'd never remove elves, I'm afraid. DnD without elves would be like coffee without caffiene-it just isn't right.

I'm hoping they don't remove any races, though. Keep tieflings and aasimar as human sub-races, and maybe toss the Illumians in as well for a third human subrace. Dwarves have shield, mountain, and duergar. Elves have moon, sun, wild, and drow. Gnomes have rock, forest, and svirfneblin. Humans, too, have their subraces plotted out.

I don't understand wanting to make tieflings a full core race, either. The race itself lacks merit for inclusion as a core race, in my opinion, and there are worthier choices. Goliaths (of Races of Stone) could work with some real fleshing-out, satyrs could make for a nice new core race that's classified as fey, not humanoid, and orcs or other demihumans could also work.

Sadly, I can easily see monks and the entire psionics system going the way of the winged elves. Monks are neither especially popular nor easy to play, and have special gimmicks, for good and ill, coming out of their ears-if 4E is more of a dumbing-down for easier online play, monks don't easily make the cut. And for psionics... much as I love them, they've always been a very iffy subject for DnD, and not many folks ever used psionics. I felt their 2E incarnation was the best, as a completely different system from anything else out there that demanded its own unique usages and tactics. In 3/3.5E, psionics really just came off as another type of magic. And I'm not at all certain they'll survive the transition into 4E.

My friends and I have agreed, though-we're sticking with 3.5E. We like it, and don't see the need for a new system.

[Mike1072]

I'd be happy if they replaced any race with Half-Halfings. Quarterlings?