52 replies to this topic

[Slumlord]

I love your attitude! /Mad grin/ I simply love it! You are an ideal player for my evil path. Thank you for posting this.

Glad to be of assistance.

[Althernai]

I think people who worry about how NPCs will react to Irenicus in the party are missing the point. There is a person who has suffered more at the hands of Irenicus than any of them -- namely the PC.

I cannot see a way a Good or Neutral PC would bring him back in any form. (His actions as the original elf: tried to attain godhood by merging with Tree of Life thus hurting every elf in Suldanesselar; his actions as a "human": tortured you and Imoen, killed several of your associates, kept people in glass jars, stole part of your soul; his actions as whatever he becomes after the soul stealing ritual: incited a drow invasion, invaded Suldanesselar, Tree thing again, tried to kill you multiple times and dragged you down into the Abyss). Would you really bring back any of those to plague you (even if you don't hold grudges, he certainly does) and wreak havok on the world? Furthermore, it would be impossible to trust any promise or Geas he agrees to -- remember, he found a way around a Divine Curse -- chances are he'll worm his way out of anything.

For the final reason above, I don't think an Evil PC would bring him back either unless he was not smart enough to see it. It's not a matter of holding a grudge -- it's a matter of self-preservation. With an Evil PC, I don't like the idea of bringing Sarevok back either -- but the game really leaves you no choice.

All of this is to say I am really looking forward to your argument for bringing Irenicus back and taking him with you. If the PC can be convinced to resurrect Irenicus, I am sure the NPCs can be appeased.

[dorotea]

All of this is to say I am really looking forward to your argument for bringing Irenicus back and taking him with you. If the PC can be convinced to resurrect Irenicus, I am sure the NPCs can be appeased.

For the reasons of my own I would remain silent on the issue. If you think my dialogs in the finished mod would not justify the events that will follow - you are welcome to ignore the mod altogether. I am not interested in heated discussion, since I already had a very bad experience with these, and prefer to leave arguments to the players after they see the final product. These said - I am not denying that your arguments are not valid ones, and just hope you will find my solution satisfactory.

[Althernai]

My only intention was to point out that if the argument convinces the PC, the NPCs will probably be convinced as well. I apologize if the above post implied that I was interested in an argument or that I was asking for a spoiler.

[fallen_demon]

But while what the pc went through was horrible, its over now. Even if she was convinced he could be redeemed, Jahiera still has to deal with the fact that Kahlid was left dead, while his murderer is given a second(arguably third) chance.

[fallen_demon]

it should be also pointed out that in RL you cannot teleport to Hell and bring that said murdered back to life after extricating them from the lava pit

What, you've never done that.

But i'm not saying that burning for all eternity is a just punishment, or that khalid won't be reincarnated, just that to Jahiera it wouldn't be right, she still lost her husband, even with his soul reincarnated the person who had develped from that soul and that she fell in love with is still dead, and she still has to trek with his murderer across tethyr trying to give irenicus a second chance.

[fallen_demon]

Srry if it sounded if i was arguing with your dirrection in the mod, i agree with what ive seen of it and think it looks great, i was just jumping in on an already started debate.
And even if people do argue with the direction your taking the mod, that dosn't neccessarily mean their trying to sway your oppinion, its just that they also want to be able to say theirown.

[dorotea]

Hey, no offense taken. I think the conversation here was rather mild, compared to some older days flame wars I used to endure in the Attic. Sorry if I sounded harsh - I guess I remembered the olden days.

Please be aware that I am interested in every shred of opinion, it is just the mod plot is basically finalized by now, but surely I can take some more input.

In fact I was planning to write more Jaheira dialogs - for the final part. She is the hardest one to write of course, but so far I am pretty happy with what I have for her.

I do Irenicus, Jaheira, Imoen and Sarevok myself - the rest of the npcs are collective effort, although I heavily edit all the banters after they are written, to fit the style of the mod.

[Elan Morin Tedronai]

Well, long time no seen dorotea, but... I really think that there should be proper reactions of the characters. Most notably Minsc, Jaheira and Imoen, who were "favoured" by Jonoleth's methods...

I think that Imoen should make sarcastic comments about disbelief, hatred and so on shit like that.

Jaheira will quit immediately. I don't see other option. Her husband is murdered, I can't see how she can forgive Irenicus. You see, I've seen people just being inflamed with the presence of a guy they don't like. Imagine what will be their reaction if they've lost close relative. Jaheira... I think is an emotional type of woman. Maybe I'm bad psychologist, but when she needs - she express her emotions deeply. Proof for this was her cry when she saw Khalid's dead body. So... with this fact I can't see other possible option for her. But... if you're conception is different - ok, I'll wait and see it.

Minsc will make some roars, but after some consideration (with CHARNAME's help of couse) he'll stay with the party. After all he's not that smart.


P.S:oooh, what a nice avatar, you have...

Edited by Elan Morin Tedronai, 24 July 2004 - 03:10 PM.

[Michel]

Minsc may not be smart but he isn't stupid. He very well knows the difference between good and bad and between a murderer and a friend. Afterall, Irenicus did kill Dynaheir. I don't think Minsc will ever fogive Irenicus.

[dorotea]

Jaheira hs a strong reaction to JI's appearance... (as well as Imoen). I personally feel it is adequate. You shall see for yourself though.