204 replies to this topic

[SeV]

Hi everybody, it's me. I hope everybody's enjoying the new stay here so far. SC, Liam, and everybody at SHS has been so gracious to us, lets try to take some time to thank them for the new haven.

As you know, the move over here to SHS was a bumpy one, but I think it was good for all parties involved. The ESF got their thread "back", and we're here with a great new group of people, an open board and all the freedom in the world. With freedom comes responsibility, and so I'd like to take some time to address a few issues that have been plaguing us, maybe before we moved over here. I'm sure we're all grown-ups here, and if we aren't we know how to act like it, and I'd really like to encourage a community atmosphere where we as a group can come to decisions we all agree upon, instead of relying on a moderator to hold our hands and make all the decisions for us. Lets set a benchmark with this thread by displaying poise and demeanor as we talk about these issues. If anybody has any other issues they feel like they should bring up, feel free to do so.


1. The first issue I'd like to address is the rate of postings. I know, I probably sound like Tegger right now, but hear me out: I've noticed that a lot of people are amazed by the rate that these threads are moving in. A lot of it has to do with the comments/general chatting we're doing in the threads, along with the shots. One option that we didn't have before that we have now is the ability to post any thread we want to. So I was thinking, and of course it would be if everybody's in agreement, we could do like the 100th PooC thread and make two threads: one for comments/general chatting on screenshots, and the other for screenshots/stories. Now this wouldn't be a nazi "you off-topic! no soup for you!" thing, but I think a lot of people's works are being looked over because the thread is moving at such a fast rate. I'd love to hear feedback on this.

2. The second issue is perhaps a little bit tougher to deal with, but I'd like to get it out in the open right now so there's no doubts. Unfortunately, we've discussed this over and over and I think some people will never accept it, and so we'll always be battling the stigma but I'm giving it another try. There is no "inside" and "outside" group. I really hadn't even heard the term until a few weeks ago when Mirrors messaged me about it. We (and I mean every last person that has ever posted in the thread) are a group of friends. For some reason, people feel alienated and excluded from us. I don't really understand why they feel that way, but it's more than one person, and I would like to squash this right now because we want to promote SHS as a place where anyone and everyone should feel welcome. The last thing I want to do is scare off new people from participating or joining in because they feel there's an "in crowd"

I'm sure all of us at some point in our lives have felt alienated, left out, singled-out. We know how much that feeling sucks. The last thing I want to do is make someone else feel like that. I know some of you like Kalia, and Shadow', and GF1 (oh how we miss your presence GF) have tried to take time out of their day to make sure and comment on everybody's pictures. That's extra-special coming from Kalia, bless her heart, I feel honored, and grateful she uses the energy she's allotted on us That says a lot. I also understand that people like Floydian, and Spike, and JazzJR aren't very good with words, as are a lot of us.

I think a good example of what can come from just mustering up the courage to open your mouth and participate is Popcorn. He wanted to post, we welcomed him. He had questions and problems with importing faces, we tried to accommodate him. Now he's taking great shots, and joining in on the rest of the discussion like we all love to do.

So the question here is, what can we as a group do to obliterate this notion that there's an "inside" click? Of course there is only so much we can do, 99% of it is just people speaking up and participating. Like my dad always used to say, closed mouthes don't get fed. Regardless, I'm hoping we can come up with some sort of gameplan here to include everybody in the fun. Lets discuss this, and get it out of the way so we can move on with our postings.

Thanks for reading.

7

[kalia]

What a wonderful post, SeV! Thanks for starting this.

I actually really really like the idea of a separate comments thread. Seemed to work just fine with the 100th thread. What about also having a "works" thread. Or something. So that things people specifically are requesting feedback on could get attention. A new character, a new race, a retexture. Maybe?

[Hector the Hooded]

Fair enough on the comments thing. Not to hard, but let us not forget, on the 100th thread, people still posted comments on that one.

As for the inside outside thing, I mean come on!

I joined the screenshot thing late in the game (no pun intended!) and I was welcomed with open arms. Many times, people do not want to join for fear they will be "hazed" or ignored, however let us not forget, these threads move fast, and because we do not have time to comment on every post does not mean we do not notice an appreciate them!

Just because people do not get a comment on every screen should not feel "excluded" just keep posting! Someone will see, someone will comment, then others will see and comment, ect.

I almost belive some of that should be posted in the opening post on the screenshot thread.

And I too would like to thank Kalia, who has spent much energy on us! We all love ya'!

Edited by Hector the Hooded, 08 May 2007 - 11:18 AM.

[Kaelis Ebonrai]

I don't have much to add to this, because SeV has said all I would've said. I agree wholeheartedly.

I too, was one of the people who plucked up the courage to post, and, I was, indeed, welcomed. As will any other poster who wishes to post on that topic. We're all nice people, and we have no intentions of making anyone feel left out. Everyone is welcome! Absolutely everyone. There's a guideline here, at SHS, "Treat all members with respect, be they admin, moderator, or normal member." (I'm probably (slightly) misquoting that) Treat everyone with respect, that they do so wholeheartedly deserve, and, things will be fine. They should also treat you, with respect, as well. As I've been known to say:

"Respect goes both ways."

Be yourselves, be friends, and, above all, enjoy yourselves!

[kalia]

Thanks all. I'm sure there are people even in this relatively small community with issues that are equally as hard in their lives, or even worse. I certainly do appreciate the understanding and kindness folks have offered me - it's been a great source of support during a somewhat tough time in my life.

On the sep comments thread: my picture, perhaps wrong, would be that it wouldn't need to be hard-and-fast, and no getting in trouble if someone misunderstood or forgot. But it'd be kinda nice to have a thread that was all the pretty piccies, and a sep thread for all our conversing & commenting & whatnot. At least it seems like it would. We could always try it, right? Could discontinue if it didn't work. As someone who does try to comment (even if only one word or one emoticon) on every pic when I have the time, it'd be easier. I think.

But we need more folks in here discussing this!

[tavishhill2003]

What a wonderful post, SeV! Thanks for starting this.

I actually really really like the idea of a separate comments thread. Seemed to work just fine with the 100th thread. What about also having a "works" thread. Or something. So that things people specifically are requesting feedback on could get attention. A new character, a new race, a retexture. Maybe?

For my machinima project especially, that is a GREAT idea. I think a lot of people who are working on textures or characters or mods in general (like mine) would benefit greatly from a feedback thread.

[Kaelis Ebonrai]

Indeed, I love that idea, it'd certainly help, I believe. =)

[Rumpleteasza]

I like the idea of a separate comments thread, too. I thought that worked really well in the 100th thread at ESF.

I think a lot of this feeling is coming from people being too shy to post and then working it up into something bigger than it is. Like I said over at the official forums, I personally felt shy and apprehensive myself when I made my first few posts, but I recognised and greatly appreciated the efforts, particularly of people like Kalia, GF1 and Shadow, to include absolutely everyone and comment on as many posts as they could. Typing up that length of post takes a lot of time, and they do it again and again and again. I have been posting regularly in the screenshot threads for only a couple of weeks, but already I feel like I've made good friends with many of you.

I just think it's a shame that people could be missing out by feeling too intimidated to post. If you give them half the chance, the people here are incredibly friendly. It's not possible for everyone to have everything they post commented on, but that's just the way it goes sometimes. If you post your pictures, they're up there for everyone to see, which is what really matters, isn't it? You may have inspired someone without even knowing.

[SeV]

well, there's also the option of extending the divisions of the board into a WIP or RELz section. Remeber, the guys over here at SHS are willing to accommodate us with almost anything (reasonable) of course, be it blog spacing, whatever we can come up with. I think we should utilize this to our advantage by coming up with some cool ideas on how we want to setup this board. Hopefully we can turn it into something so cool that it will attract other members here.

Tavis, you of course should have your own thread for your machinima release. I was looking at some screenshots of that graveyard site yesterday, all I have to say is "wow". That's very impressive.

[Spike4072]

I think the sep thread idea is a good one. If someone does mistakenly post a shot in the comment thread or a comment in the shot thread I am sure it can be transplanted to the correct thread with out to much trouble. Atleast I think mods can move single posts.

[SeV]

It's not possible for everyone to have everything they post commented on, but that's just the way it goes sometimes. If you post your pictures, they're up there for everyone to see, which is what really matters, isn't it? You may have inspired someone without even knowing.

I'll add to that and say that the IMG tags really help me see things I wouldn't have otherwize clicked on before. Not that I didn't care about the shots, but because click-back-click-back-click gets annoying after a while

[Jyzabyl]

I don't have much to add to this, because SeV has said all I would've said. I agree wholeheartedly.

I too, was one of the people who plucked up the courage to post, and, I was, indeed, welcomed. As will any other poster who wishes to post on that topic. We're all nice people, and we have no intentions of making anyone feel left out. Everyone is welcome! Absolutely everyone. There's a guideline here, at SHS, "Treat all members with respect, be they admin, moderator, or normal member." (I'm probably (slightly) misquoting that) Treat everyone with respect, that they do so wholeheartedly deserve, and, things will be fine. They should also treat you, with respect, as well. As I've been known to say:

"Respect goes both ways."

Be yourselves, be friends, and, above all, enjoy yourselves!

Or as we say in the Rec Room "PLAY NICE"

And this may be off topic, but I'd like to welcome all the new members and the so called Oblivians. We're a friendly bunch here and don't much go for us and them. I for one look forward to playing the new content to be found in these threads.

And don't forget... drop by the Rec Room and say hi! You can be as off topic as you like, and it makes for a good community.

[Victoria]

Seems like a good idea about the comments thread. Not sure how I'm seen anymore to be honest there seem to be those who like me posting screenshots then some who see me as some sort of antichrist well at least over at esf. I'm pretty much sure some of the 'stigma' stuff mentioned is related to me, that perhaps I'm to blame for putting people off posting?

One a personal note I'm very much glad Kalia has joined here in the screenshooting threads, she always takes the time to comment on folks piccies and is a very kind and warm hearted person and a good friend.

[PoPc0rN]

One problem with the two different threads. People will post in both and will go up just as quick as each other. But I thought that if the General Chatting one was for talking about screen that people have posted and talk about it and whatever else, (Like we do now) and then the ScreenShots Only Thread could be ones that have been 'accepted' or chosen to be in there. Not necessarily chosen, but something like this so it isnt flooded with screens in both threads.

[kalia]

That's another point - if there were a separate comment thread, having the actual thread be pretty much just image-tagged stuff, perhaps even attached (if we wouldn't be straining the bounds of bandwith here - look at the numbers!) - that'd be an enjoyable "read".

[DIE 75]

Funny, I almost completely stopped posting in the TES Forum's thread because there were too many people posting and I felt bad that I couldn't comment on everyone's posts. Personally, I'm more of a lurker. I am a member of several boards but I do very little posting.

I guess I can understand people thinking there was a clique of some type because, after a while, most of the comments coming from regulars were more for the regulars and less towards the newbies. For instance, when I first started posting screens in the character's threads, I rarely received a comment on them. Sometimes people would comment on some of my screens in the following thread once the original one was closed. Now if I had not stuck around to see those comments, I might've thought no one cared or my screens weren't good enough to receive comments. It took a good while before people started commenting regularly and I received PM's about armor and such.

I don't know if these kinds of things really can be avoided. I think it will always seem that way whether it's accurate of not. IMO, the best you can do is try to comment and do your best to make people feel welcome. There are always going to be people that just don't get along or are not patient enough to await the feedback they came here for.

As for a comment thread, that might not be a bad idea. I usually open 2 windows so I can make sure I'm commenting on the screens I want to since refreshing could make it skip to another page. I also like the idea of a thread for people doing retexts and such. Those people are really looking for feedback when sometimes we just want to post something pretty.

Although, that could cause some clutter in the forum...

[tavishhill2003]

well, there's also the option of extending the divisions of the board into a WIP or RELz section. Remeber, the guys over here at SHS are willing to accommodate us with almost anything (reasonable) of course, be it blog spacing, whatever we can come up with. I think we should utilize this to our advantage by coming up with some cool ideas on how we want to setup this board. Hopefully we can turn it into something so cool that it will attract other members here.

Tavis, you of course should have your own thread for your machinima release. I was looking at some screenshots of that graveyard site yesterday, all I have to say is "wow". That's very impressive.

My friends call me Tavish.

And thanks for your kind words about my project. I really like your idea of having a WIP forum and a REL forum. One way to help alleviate problems with people getting upset over your supposed clique is to perhaps have open polls for things like the 100 PooC thread so that everyone can be involved in choosing/voting what pictures get in. I think some people would feel cheated if they didn't get a chance to vote on it so I saylet them vote alongside all of you! In fact, maybe a way to breed not only a more inviting and level community but also some fun competition would be to set up many contests for coolest screenshots or coolest mods or coolest characters or whatever and let everyone vote in all of those cases. Everyone has an equal shot that way. Maybe a poll for 10 best sunset images for example or 10 best action shots.

Also, I really love how the images are allowed to show up in threads here as opposed to the TES forums where only links are posted. This makes sure that viewers get a chance to see all the pics instead of just having to look at ones posted by a user they know usually posts cool pics. I know I've been pleasantly surprised a few times by clicking on random links and finding someone who doesn't post that often showing off some really impressive screenshots. I think this setup here will help do a small part in making sure people don't skip over some new person's awesome pics. At the TES forums, I admit it is a bit of a hassle to have to click on every link for every picture so I sometimes find myself concentrating on most of your posts because I know you guys and gals post cool screenshots consistently. That kind of thing can lead to everyone overlooking some new posters' stuff so I think to some extent that is already a fixed issue here.

Edited by tavishhill2003, 08 May 2007 - 11:44 AM.

[cyborgakadjmoose]

Well said SeV! I sorta like the idea of a story thead and then a general comment thread, considering how fast these threads move.

I'm rather surprised that many people felt that there was an "inside" group and didn't feel welcome. Quite to the contrary! I may not post too often due to long absences of Oblivion playing, but I felt instantly welcome the first time I posted at the ESF in the screenshot threads.
Others have said this, but the fact that gf1, kalia, and others would take the time to reply to EVERYONE'S posts is huge. If that doesn't say how welcoming the thread was, I don't what did.

[Hector the Hooded]

So many valid points. I think we should make the comment thread and see how it works out. If someone puts a comment in the picture thread a moderator can move it to the comment thread. Easy enough.

[Spike4072]

Yeah the best way to know if something works is to try it. If it doesnt then try something else.