184 replies to this topic

[Merja]

Jason - feels strange calling you so, since I don't know you, but Mr. Compton hardly seems appropriate either...LOL, did you miss the point I was trying to make or just avoid it gracefully? 'Twas a wonderful dodge, however I think you're reading more into this then there actually is. The romanceable Edwin is a version of Edwin among other versions of Edwin. The Book of Mastering the Odesseiron Bracket Pattern has not been passed by congress therfore is not yet law, LOL. Don't you want people to like Kelsey? or doesn't Weimar want people to like Sola (Oh, he remains my sweety...) And I know I'll like Valygar, especially if he gets a voice I know It's the prerogative of a writer to present their protagonist in a pleasant light.... Did you see that movie Bonnie and Clyde? dem innocent bystander shooting, convenience store robbing guys, who ended up sad heroes because the writer of the screenplay wanted them to be so?

Which one? Does this happen before or after Midnight's ascension? (I know, I have a dirty little mind, but I"m curious

Elminster was the long time lover of Mystra, who gifted him those horribly inflated stats....In medical terms, elephantiasys

[dorotea]

I just want to warn everybody to keep the discussion civil and stay on topic, otherwise I will be forced to lock the thread and delete the posts I find irrelevant. Just to remind you - I am one of the moderators.

Thank you for your cooperation.

And Merja! I am glad to see you here - I am sure you will like the mod.

[Aurelius]

Elminster was the long time lover of Mystra, who gifted him those horribly inflated stats....In medical terms, elephantiasys

WHICH Mystra? The LN one, that was killed by Helm during the Time of Troubles? Or the NG one, that was known as Midnight before ascending and taking over Mystra's portfolio and name? I doubt he was Midnight's lover, since by that time he was already one of the Chosen.

[Laufey]

The point to this, strangely enough, is my attempt of drawing your attention to the fact that there are no carved in stone characterizations of an NPC and that everyone is, in my opinion allowed to emphasize whatever pleasant qualities the NPC has. All we have to go by in writing more banter for any NPC is the banters they have in the game. And I assure you that all I've seen in the romance so far does not stray much from the original thing, at least in tone. Is Edwin transformed by the romance? indeed he is, but then, to me, Jaheira is transformed by her romance as well...Why? the simple fact that she reveals more of herself through the additional talks should be enough.

I am not an Aerie fan, and still I enjoyed Domi's portrayal of her, though it is not word by word accurate to the original NPC. I am less a fan of silly and pleasantly humorous Edwin than most of the people that will probably download the mod, but although my view of Edwin differs signifincantly fom Laufey's, I am enjoying the romance. So Laufey makes Edwin a bit more likeable...So? If you didn't play the Viconia romance, you might be tempted to say she is irrevocably evil....

C'moon you guys! modding I thought was meant to be fun and not nerve consuming! Why should we turn a simple difference of opinion over what a character should be like into a war ? Variations over what real flesh and bone people are truly like exist, and, in the words of Picasso, even if there was one single truth, we could probably make a thousand different paintings of it.

Thank you Merja, I agree with just about everything you said. Welcome to this forum btw, and I hope you'll enjoy the mod once it's done.

[Laufey]

Elminster was the long time lover of Mystra, who gifted him those horribly inflated stats....In medical terms, elephantiasys 

WHICH Mystra? The LN one, that was killed by Helm during the Time of Troubles? Or the NG one, that was known as Midnight before ascending and taking over Mystra's portfolio and name? I doubt he was Midnight's lover, since by that time he was already one of the Chosen.

I may be mistaken about this, since I haven't read those books and my information is second hand. As I have understood it, Midnight for some reason needed to have sex with Elminster in order to assume her divine post. Whether that had something to do with the Chosen thing or not, I don't know. And as I said, I could be mistaken.

[Aurelius]

Lol, I don't know who gave you that information, but I don't think he/she is right. During the Avatar trilogy Midninght is Kelemvor's garl. And she didn't need Elminster to become a godess, Ao himself appears and elevates both her and Cyric to the rank of deity. I think people got confused by the fact that there are actually two Mystra. The current one is NG, and believes magic should be use to do good and protect, the old one was LN (and Helm's lover btw) and believed that magic should be used by anybody for any purpose.

As to Edwin, I definetly see Midnight/Mystra taking his magic away. It would be perfectly in accordance to her beliefs on the use of magic. While evil spellcasters are accepted, they are not allowed to get out of hand.

[Laufey]

As to Edwin, I definetly see Midnight/Mystra taking his magic away. It would be perfectly in accordance to her beliefs on the use of magic. While evil spellcasters are accepted, they are not allowed to get out of hand.

See my own, and Riona's previous comments. According to sourcebook material, she is very reluctant to use that power, and only does so when somebody threatens the existence of magic itself. Which isn't the case in the Elminster/Edwin situation.

Oh, and regarding one of your previous comments that I only just noticed, I really hope you weren't calling me 'illogical' because I happen to want to do things my way, and see things differently than you do. I would have to regard that as an insult, you see. I believe that by now I have made my opinions perfectly clear regarding Elminster for anybody who reads this thread from beginning to end, and I have no particular desire of having to repeat myself.

It bears repeating: It is the author's prerogative to write whatever he or she pleases, and do accept or reject criticism. In this case I have said more than once that I will do as I please with Elminster, and I will not repeat myself one more time.

[Aurelius]

Oh, and regarding one of your previous comments that I only just noticed, I really hope you weren't calling me 'illogical' because I happen to want to do things my way, and see things differently than you do. I would have to regard that as an insult, you see. I believe that by now I have made my opinions perfectly clear regarding Elminster for anybody who reads this thread from beginning to end, and I have no particular desire of having to repeat myself.

It bears repeating: It is the author's prerogative to write whatever he or she pleases, and do accept or reject criticism. In this case I have said more than once that I will do as I please with Elminster, and I will not repeat myself one more time.

I didn't say you were illogical. I only stated that logic no longer played a part in the debate, since you had already decided what to do and any argument, however structured, will not change your mind. The whole thing would have degenerated into " I want to do it!" "You mustn't do it!" type of arguments. I really don't get it why you want to trash elm so much, but I only have one suggestion: if you refuse to accept any arguments pointing to the fact that edwin defeating elminster is a bit exaggerated, why not lock the topic? it would spare us all a lot of trouble and you would not have to waste time replying to posts.

It's the same old problem. If you want to make this mod only for edwin lovers, great. if you aim it at the general gaming population you should have a good explanation as to how was edwin able to defeat elminster.

That's all. Over and out

[Laufey]

Oh, and regarding one of your previous comments that I only just noticed, I really hope you weren't calling me 'illogical' because I happen to want to do things my way, and see things differently than you do. I would have to regard that as an insult, you see. I believe that by now I have made my opinions perfectly clear regarding Elminster for anybody who reads this thread from beginning to end, and I have no particular desire of having to repeat myself.

It bears repeating: It is the author's prerogative to write whatever he or she pleases, and do accept or reject criticism. In this case I have said more than once that I will do as I please with Elminster, and I will not repeat myself one more time.

I didn't say you were illogical. I only stated that logic no longer played a part in the debate, since you had already decided what to do and any argument, however structured, will not change your mind. The whole thing would have degenerated into " I want to do it!" "You mustn't do it!" type of arguments. I really don't get it why you want to trash elm so much, but I only have one suggestion: if you refuse to accept any arguments pointing to the fact that edwin defeating elminster is a bit exaggerated, why not lock the topic? it would spare us all a lot of trouble and you would not have to waste time replying to posts.

It's the same old problem. If you want to make this mod only for edwin lovers, great. if you aim it at the general gaming population you should have a good explanation as to how was edwin able to defeat elminster.

That's all. Over and out

Read back, and you will see that I don't refuse to listen to arguments, as long as they are politely and constructively expressed, such as Riona did. I don't have a problem with people disagreeing, as long as they are polite and don't, as you say, limit themselves to 'you mustn't do that'. And listening to arguments doesn't mean that I have to change my mind, you know.

As far as explanations go, you will have to determine once you have read all the epilogues if you consider them sufficient or not. The same goes for anybody else taking an interest of course. What the 'general gaming population' thinks is anybody's guess. Bear in mind though, they may not necessarily agree with you. Or with me, for that matter.

And finally, I would prefer not to lock the thread, but from now on, if I feel remarks get too personal I will not hesitate to delete them.

[Aurelius]

As far as explanations go, you will have to determine once you have read all the epilogues if you consider them sufficient or not. The same goes for anybody else taking an interest of course. What the 'general gaming population' thinks is anybody's guess. Bear in mind though, they may not necessarily agree with you. Or with me, for that matter.

Sure. Just to clarify: I consider that "the general gaming population" are the neutral ones. Probably each character has about 20% fans, 20% haters and 60% of the gamers don't feel very strongly about the cahracter either way(very simplified and generalized percentages). I for one don't love Edwin but I don't hate him either. This I believe makes my part of the 60%, thus part of the "general gaming population".

[Laufey]

As far as explanations go, you will have to determine once you have read all the epilogues if you consider them sufficient or not. The same goes for anybody else taking an interest of course. What the 'general gaming population' thinks is anybody's guess. Bear in mind though, they may not necessarily agree with you. Or with me, for that matter.

Sure. Just to clarify: I consider that "the general gaming population" are the neutral ones. Probably each character has about 20% fans, 20% haters and 60% of the gamers don't feel very strongly about the cahracter either way(very simplified and generalized percentages). I for one don't love Edwin but I don't hate him either. This I believe makes my part of the 60%, thus part of the "general gaming population".

Yes, you may be right about those percentages. However, just because you are in what we might call the 'neutral' camp doesn't mean that your opinions on various things will be shared by everybody else in the 'neutral' camp. For example, you may perhaps like the music we have selected for Edwin's lovetalks, once you hear it. Will everybody else in the 'neutral' camp like it? No, probably not. And perhaps you will not enjoy the additional quests included in the mod, but other people in the 'neutral' camp will. See what I mean now? It is very easy to assume that other people share your tastes and opinions, when in reality you can't be certain of that.

And to sum things up: I will write in my own preferred way. Of course it will make me happy if lots of other people like it, but I'm not trying to achieve some sort of 'majority vote' here. B)

[dorotea]

blow Aerie's head off...or castrate Cernd...[

Now that's a thought ... my dear, you have a wickedly creative imagination. I don't think I would go for coding these kind of things - and Elminster is not being castrated or even turned into a frog - just publically humiliated, and not much at that. So, relax and don't worry, we still have a minisqular grain of good taste I think.

[Laufey]

In other words, does the highlighting of the pleasent qualities in the protagonist require an increase of unpleasent qualities and subsequent violence towards the other characters, who are percieved by the author as enemies of the protagonist?

No, they don't require that as such, nor did I ever say so. Nasty things happening to Elminster is just a pleasurable extra. And also, I should perhaps mention, not including atomic bombs, death, mutilation or torture. Nothing worse than temporary inconvenience really - as I have said before, and more than once. If you disapprove of that, then that's too bad.

[Laufey]

I have just deleted a post that went far into the 'personal remarks' area. This will be repeated as often as necessary.

[Laufey]

I am glad that the mod does not include NPC bashing.

Whether we define that the same way remains to be seen, but is something you will have to determine for yourself, should you decide to play the mod once it's done.

[Laufey]

Can I ask then will the PC be required to kill/mutilate/assult any of the following characters if the crachter is in romance with Edwin:

Aerie
Cernd
Valygar
Mazzy
Elthan
Ellisime
?

Not unless you want to.