103 replies to this topic

[berelinde]

Couldn't have said it better myself, but in this case, it turns out that the character I want to write is more or less what others seem to want written. In this case, it has proven to be encouraging.

I like writing for humans. There is something visceral about them, in the gaming world. They are the most emotional of the races of Faerun. They live in the moment, for the moment, because their lives are short, relatively speaking.

But part of it is that I would like to write one mod for every race before I retire, even if it's only a one-day NPC. I've certainly got ideas for each. So, the question then isn't which do I write, it's which do I write first. I don't think I have it in me to write eight or nine romances before I retire. So, since I do have several characters in my head, which gets the romance?

This time, I think it will be a human, but I'm still not sure if she's going to be a fighter, a ranger, or an arcane spellcaster. Leaning toward fighter or ranger, tho. Next time, maybe a halfling, class TBD.

[SConrad]

Couldn't have said it better myself, but in this case, it turns out that the character I want to write is more or less what others seem to want written. In this case, it has proven to be encouraging.

Well, then it's a completely different matter.

I'm just opposed to the idea of people feeling public pressure to do something they don't want - or instead of something they'd rather do. If the public wants something that badly, the public can do it themselves.

It's your time, and you should spend that time doing what you feel like. I'm glad that's what you're going to do, too!

[GeN1e]

Ranger-archer. They are good fighters but not frontline ones. Afaik it's males who get the hardest work. Why to force a girl to soak up blows while her friend murmurs under his breath?

[berelinde]

Sometimes, you want to give the PC the opportunity to ask the hard questions, and you want to give your NPC the opportunity to answer them.

Naturally, you're going to want the male PC to have an opportunity to be gallant, but it doesn't have to be limited to combat. I, personally, would greatly appreciate the pc sorcerer who was able to take out the spellcasters while said NPC dealt with the minions.

Ladies in the Forgotten Realms can hold their own with the men. Not exactly like real life, where women do have physical limitations that prevent them from achieving the strength males can achieve.

Which is kind of ironic, because IRL, I'm a tall woman who happens to have a rather muscular frame. I had nothing to do with this phenomenon, but sometimes, genetics spits in the face of the romantic ideal. At work, I am routinely asked to do the heavy lifting.

[Celestine]

Sometimes, you want to give the PC the opportunity to ask the hard questions, and you want to give your NPC the opportunity to answer them.

Naturally, you're going to want the male PC to have an opportunity to be gallant, but it doesn't have to be limited to combat. I, personally, would greatly appreciate the pc sorcerer who was able to take out the spellcasters while said NPC dealt with the minions.

Ladies in the Forgotten Realms can hold their own with the men. Not exactly like real life, where women do have physical limitations that prevent them from achieving the strength males can achieve.

Which is kind of ironic, because IRL, I'm a tall woman who happens to have a rather muscular frame. I had nothing to do with this phenomenon, but sometimes, genetics spits in the face of the romantic ideal. At work, I am routinely asked to do the heavy lifting.

Well, maybe that's because some men are well, insensitive? I am skinny, and petite but I have to carry heavy CPUs as well, sometimes two at a time.

In game-wise, personally, I always play a spellcaster for my PC, so I'll take any NPC that can fit into the party gaps nicely.

[Solstice]

Personally, I think a female dwarf fighter/cleric would be right up my alley. I've always liked the class combination, and it works well for a dwarf. Besides, name the last female dwarf npc you've ever seen... in *any* DnD game.

[Kellen]

Dorna. Cleric Thief. Very Fun.

[Kulyok]

But I'm not ruling anything out yet. Well, maybe Branwen. Yes, she deserves to be written, but I don't know if she's the NPC I want to write. The idea of combining beauty, strength, seductiveness, and goodness appeals to me. Branwen's probalby got the first three, but she's TN, and I want to write for a good character.

I think Branwen is much like Jaheira: essentially a good character who's got a TN alignment. But that's how she was written before I joined BG1 NPC Project, so my perspective might be coloured by that.

[Gabrielle]

Do what you need to do berelinde. Asking for input or what fans want to see is a waste of time. You either get nothing in reply or way too many suggestions and you end up getting nothing done because you are trying to please everyone else. Your mod, your hobby, do what you want.

[Magnus_025]

yep, I agree with Gabrielle. Do it as you wish, it will be good anyway. The community is so big and there are too many different opinions and tastes that you will end with a very bad headache if you try to satisfy we all! You just need to please yourself. Go for it! (after of course, giving us the opportunity of destroying Joneleth, Bodhi and Melissan with Gavin by our side!)

Edited by Magnus_025, 26 April 2007 - 07:13 AM.

[berelinde]

Heh. Working on that, at the moment, although I should really be working on something with a closer deadline.

Never fear, I'm not likely to be pressured into doing something I wouldn't want to do, or give up on something I do.

Like anyone else, I've got more than one idea I want to develop. It was more a question of which I want to do first. And like anyone with several viable choices, I was looking to see if any of those happened to coincide with anyone else's wish list. Fortunately, they do.

To date, I've really only done modding for male NPCs. It's going to be different writing for a female one, but I'm looking forward to the challenge.

[Azkyroth]

Argh, Azzy late to party it seem. O.o

I don't want to *replace* any BioWare NPC. I don't want to make the PC choose between her and Imoen, for example. But I can safely guarantee a few things. She won't need therapy, and she won't try to mother you. She'll definitely be "all woman." Hadn't considered the need of the male PC to rescue her, but it's definitely presenting some interesting possiblities. She's probably too passionate to be elven, but I'm willing to hold off on that decision for a while.

A little more detail? Some of this (IE, "all woman") could mean anything.

Well, it's as I told you: as long as we're not talking about 15-year-olds, half-drow-half-dragons, Aran Linvail's/Saemon Havarian's children, "she's all about sex" and "she's your sister really", everything else is fine and dandy to me, as long as the writing is decent.

Famous last words...

I'm not talking about the legitimate question about SF, NK, though. That one is worth answering, and it's really a bit of 4th wall breakage right there. It shows up on published personal adveritisements, and it's shorthand for "single female, no kids." Often, it takes the form of SWF, or includes some other racial reference, but that's kind of the point: I am undecided on race.

[Insert "single wight female" joke here]

I *can* say that in my opinion there is a grand sight more dialogue and involvement with mature romance available to female protagonists than to male protagonists.

I'm curious; why do you say that?

Ranger-archer. They are good fighters but not frontline ones. Afaik it's males who get the hardest work. Why to force a girl to soak up blows while her friend murmurs under his breath?

Because at least some girls find being treated like weaklings extremely patronizing, the result being that doing so substantially increases the number of blows the PC is likely to soak up?

Which is kind of ironic, because IRL, I'm a tall woman who happens to have a rather muscular frame. I had nothing to do with this phenomenon, but sometimes, genetics spits in the face of the romantic ideal. At work, I am routinely asked to do the heavy lifting.

*eyebrow, purr, cough* anyways...

berelinde, I don't wish for you to take this the wrong way, but... I think you should care less about what the community's opinion is, and more about what you really want to write/create. Personally, I believe it'd be a terrible waste to spend lots and lots of time doing something because the community asks for it, when you'd be happier doing something your heart tells you.

SConrad is right. Between the people who think anything that's been done should automatically be avoided, the people who whine about elements that are different from PnP, the people who complain about this or that being too challenging, the people who complain about the same thing being too easy, the people who really like exotic characters, the people who hate exotic, unusual, or unusually capable characters, the people who have truckloads of weird or trite assumptions about certain races, classes, or genders, the people whose sensibilities are so delicate and inhibitions so ironclad that pushing their boundaries is about as entertaining as hunting dairy cows with a scoped high-powered rifle, ad nauseum putting too much emphasis on community feedback in your decision-making can really kill creativity. You wind up with a product that everyone's sort of lukewarm on. Blech. x.x

[berelinde]

OK, so maybe my priorities are a little wacky, but the truth of the matter is that I have several viable NPC ideas, any of which could easily include a romance.

The important thing would be that the NPC could stand with or without the romance. So if I can't be motivated to write one without it, I certainly won't bother to write one with it.

I've never been one who only ever gets one idea, unless I'm grasping at straws, and then I'm lucky if I get one. But the NPC pool hasn't even begun to be exhausted. There are still so many things that haven't been tried, or not to my satisfaction.

Any of the following ideas would make a viable NPC. I want to do all of them, but I don't know if I'll ever get to them all. I like all the ideas, or I wouldn't have bothered considering them. Thing is, which to tackle first? Why not find out where there is a perceived lack, and use that as a starting point.

Perceived lack: good-aligned, romanceable female with ToB content who would satisfy the more mature gamer.

What NPCs have I got on deck that might fill the order:
1) human fighter type - full of contradictions (principled but easy-going, disciplined but passionate, independent but considerate, thorough but not brutal, strong but not stupid)

2) human vanilla mage - clever, miscevious, and fun. She doesn't take the PC too seriously, but she doesn't take herself too seriously, either

3) dwarven cleric - serious, soft-spoken, and mystical. She's a rune-reader, and she's worried. She's wise, and she knows it. She likes a challenge.

4) vague ideas about a halfing fighter, but this one's most likely to be male, and isn't really well developed enough to go forward with

The purpose of the poll wasn't to decide which I should do, but rather which of several choices that I already wanted to do should go first.

Oh, and about the "all woman" thing, none of the ladies that I intend to write for are men in dresses, or the stereotypical male idea of what a woman should be. None of this BioWare goodness=prude thing. I hate that. Also, I don't buy into the belief that a woman has to surrender her femininity before she can don armor.

I am certain that it will come as no surprise that men consistently fail to live up to the stereotypes handed down through the ages. Most have been taught to walk upright, and some acknowledge that they do, in actual fact, possess the capacity to understand abstract thought. These guys like to befriend women who can appreciate these qualities.

I'm not badmouthing men here. I just happen to think that BioWare might have shortchanged the guys. They get three choices, and none of them are all that satisfying. Viconia comes the closest, but she's a far cry from a paladin's ideal companion.

There have been some LG/NG/CG NPCs written, but of those *actually released,* how many have ToB content? There is room for one more.

Maybe it was because BioWare only gave us ladies Anomen, but there have been some really decent mod NPCs written for the female protagonist, and they have ToB content.

Oh, and for the record, I don't worry too much about offending people's sensibilities. People have all kinds of ideas about what the FR races are like, and I have my own, too, but they are what they are. Also, I don't write smut, but I'm not about to pretend that <CHARNAME> and the NPC are Ken and Barbie, going through life with unformed, anatomically neuter plastic bodies.

I write the way I write. Anyone who wants a preview could always download Gavin and take a peek at the D's. That mod was a learning experience, and the first time I'd ever written anything, but it's true to style.

Edited by berelinde, 26 April 2007 - 02:12 PM.

[Chevalier]

3) dwarven cleric - serious, soft-spoken, and mystical. She's a rune-reader, and she's worried. She's wise, and she knows it. She likes a challenge.

Sound really cool, but for me not romanceable. My PCs are not into dwarven women.

[SConrad]

berelinde, I don't wish for you to take this the wrong way, but... I think you should care less about what the community's opinion is, and more about what you really want to write/create. Personally, I believe it'd be a terrible waste to spend lots and lots of time doing something because the community asks for it, when you'd be happier doing something your heart tells you.

SConrad is right. Between the people who think anything that's been done should automatically be avoided, the people who whine about elements that are different from PnP, the people who complain about this or that being too challenging, the people who complain about the same thing being too easy, the people who really like exotic characters, the people who hate exotic, unusual, or unusually capable characters, the people who have truckloads of weird or trite assumptions about certain races, classes, or genders, the people whose sensibilities are so delicate and inhibitions so ironclad that pushing their boundaries is about as entertaining as hunting dairy cows with a scoped high-powered rifle, ad nauseum putting too much emphasis on community feedback in your decision-making can really kill creativity. You wind up with a product that everyone's sort of lukewarm on. Blech. x.x

Fully agreed. No matter what you do, you can't please everyone - so you might as well please yourself instead.

[Kaeloree]

Ooooh, dwarven, mysterious, wise Rune Cleric? With a friendship path, and I'll bake you cookies.

[Miloch]

So... no wood nymph ranger/cleric of Mielikki? Damn, I guess I'll have to create her myself (heh, right).

[Azkyroth]

Oh, and about the "all woman" thing, none of the ladies that I intend to write for are men in dresses, or the stereotypical male idea of what a woman should be. None of this BioWare goodness=prude thing. I hate that. Also, I don't buy into the belief that a woman has to surrender her femininity before she can don armor.

For the sake of argument, just keep in mind that the only trait that can really be said to be "universal" among men or women is having a male or female (respectively) body; there's a lot more variation in attitudes, worldviews, priorities, values, mannerisms, etc. within a given gender than most people I meet, whether they belong to that gender or not, seem willing to grasp. I'm mildly curious what you mean by "men in dresses" but I think I get the idea (though the idea I'm getting would, I think, go without saying, so maybe not. O.o)

I am certain that it will come as no surprise that men consistently fail to live up to the stereotypes handed down through the ages. Most have been taught to walk upright, and some acknowledge that they do, in actual fact, possess the capacity to understand abstract thought. These guys like to befriend women who can appreciate these qualities.

You're preaching to the choir here.

I'm not badmouthing men here. I just happen to think that BioWare might have shortchanged the guys. They get three choices, and none of them are all that satisfying. Viconia comes the closest, but she's a far cry from a paladin's ideal companion.

I assume you mean aside from her avoidant-attachment behavior. I think you'll like Arkalian, though for a number of reasons she's not necessarily a paladin's ideal companion either.

Oh, and for the record, I don't worry too much about offending people's sensibilities. People have all kinds of ideas about what the FR races are like, and I have my own, too, but they are what they are. Also, I don't write smut, but I'm not about to pretend that <CHARNAME> and the NPC are Ken and Barbie, going through life with unformed, anatomically neuter plastic bodies.

I don't worry too much about offending people's sensibilities either, though it often makes for a gratifying side-effect.

My PCs are not into dwarven women.

Well, if the PC is female, that wouldn't preclude a romance...

Edited by Azkyroth, 26 April 2007 - 03:47 PM.

[berelinde]

@Miloch: yeah, I think I'd like to clear the decks of some of my more mundane ideas before tackling any of the exotics.

Not that it isn't a good idea, because it is, but I'd probably tackle that one as a swan song NPC. And you just play for the strategy, so you'd be SOL anyway.

@anybody who likes the Dwarf, but not for romance: anything I write will have a friendship path. Always. NPCs need to be able to stand on their own, whether there is romance or not.

Edited by berelinde, 26 April 2007 - 04:06 PM.

[cmorgan]

I am certain that it will come as no surprise that men consistently fail to live up to the stereotypes handed down through the ages. Most have been taught to walk upright, and some acknowledge that they do, in actual fact, possess the capacity to understand abstract thought. These guys like to befriend women who can appreciate these qualities.

Hmmm.... walk upright? Check. Well, unless we are peering into a console or screen to swing that blade ...one...more... time.... *got him*!!!. Then we still kinda bend over a little.
Acknowledge the capacity for abstract thought -- HEY! Who broke the Code of Silence???? You females are not supposed to know that.... does that mean we have to start paying attention to timers, or actually knowing how to get somewhere or god forbid *ask directions*? There better not be a follow up revelation that we actually do know that the toilet seat has two positions when leaving a bathroom. It is the end of the male hegemony on carefully cultivated stupidity .

ahem...

Back on topic, sounds good. I have never been one for the removal of the battle of the sexes, as there is way too much of the human condition tied up in its full play of ideas. I will admit to enjoying my Paladin romancing Aerie onoccasion, in spite of the preeteen or teen feel of the romance, with my role always in the driving seat (now don't go there.... Paladin, remember? ). But the chance to have a real exploration of character and ideas in an equal partner romance is a great goal, and if it is even half as strong as Gavin's reactions and abilities, you are going to have a solid winner.

(just in case, you might think about attributes for dual classing to a class of your choice, so the powergamers can have fun too...)

Edited by cmorgan, 26 April 2007 - 05:13 PM.