40 replies to this topic

[GeN1e]

MONK TWEAK


I. About

This tweak allows monks to get a bonus or penalty to their AC, depending on their wisdom. The table is the same as AC bonus from DEX.

Wisdom 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
+/- AC -3 -3 -3 -2 -2 -1 -1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 6 6


II. Tech info and known problems

I included wisdom checks into main game scripts - baldur.bcs and baldur25.bcs. Depending on current wisdom monk will get one of ten spells which will add undispellable bonus to AC and will dispel any previous wisdom bonus. Since I didn't find a way to dispel a specific spell I went with assigning a "10 - Offensive damage" type to spells responsible for AC adjustments and dispelling them with 221th opcode. This type is used for damaging spells, not for protections, so it ensures that almost nothing else will be dispelled. As I've found setting spell's duration to be permanent doesn't allow to dispel it, thus i've changed it to lasts for ~6 months. To check if this time has expired (really unlikely but still possible) or monk was killed (if he isn't Charname, of course - either NPC mod or multiplayer) I've in my spells a change of monk's tracking skill. It seems to be completely unused in game so no problems here.

Sometimes you can see a message "PlayerName - Offensive Damage Dispelled". I've tried to protect target against displaying this message but game refused to hear my plea. Well, there are much worse things anyway.
Also you may get cured of poison/desease/similar which is a bug, but very unlikely one. Monks get immunity to poison and desease plus magic resistance, that the first, and it might happen only if your monk's wisdom gets changed while he's suffering from long-lasting ill effect, that's the second. Cheat if wish, that's really unlikely, so I don't care.

These bonuses works only for party members, though once gained they keep working even if you've kicked a monk out of party.


III. Installation order

It absolutely doesn't matter when you install this.


IV. Tools used

DLTCEP by Avenger
WeiDu by Westley Weimer

Attached Files

•  Monk_tweak.rar   257.14K   1164 downloads

Edited by GeN1e, 20 April 2007 - 05:51 PM.

[Kaeloree]

Fantastic idea! Will definitely try it out.

[Azazello]

Just curious: Why should AC be linked to Wisdom? Is this PnP rule?

[GeN1e]

According to 3E. Which monks have come to BG2 from.

Edited by GeN1e, 21 April 2007 - 08:46 AM.

[Bursk]

This looks pretty cool. Thanks, GeN1e.

It's nice to see you active again.

[Miloch]

I commented on this on G3 already, but was just wondering: how is this different from Sword & Fist? Also, the existing Lost Items seems to have a virtually identical component. I'm not trashing your work - just wondering how it's different from that which has gone on before.

[GeN1e]

Khm, that's quite confusing, you know... I never heard about Lost items (or at least never paid any attention to it) and I completely forgot what Sword and fist was about.

I've made a look through both of them. Lost items simply gives monks its "+3AC and +1Thac0" bonus if their wisdom is higher than 15. Sword and fist doesn't appear to include such feature at all, though I can be wrong.

My tweak allows to get a bonus depending upon monk's current wisdom (yes, potion of Insight can be useful... or harmful).

Edited by GeN1e, 25 April 2007 - 12:32 PM.

[Azazello]

What's the "logic" (wrong term to use with 3E rules) for the AC/Wisdom linkage?

[GeN1e]

I'm not sure if I understand correctly your point.
Why to use the DEX table? - I don't mind to change it if there is a valid argument for such action.
Why to use 3E rules? - Afaik monk class is entirely from 3E. Why shouldn't they follow 3E rules then?
Why 3E has got such a rule? - Ask someone else. Or smth easier

Edited by GeN1e, 25 April 2007 - 05:15 PM.

[SConrad]

I think that what Azazello is asking is why 3E has rules that ties AC to wisdom. I don't completely understand that myself, either, and would be happy if someone could explain.

[GeN1e]

Shouldn't you ask at wizards.com then?

[SConrad]

Well, I wasn't the one who originally posted the question - I just seconded it.

Besides, I kinda think it's a legitimate question to ask in this thread, seeing how the mod incorporates the rule in the game. It kinda allows the question of why the rule exists in the first place, doesn't it?

[Azazello]

Yeah, I was just asking for info purposes, not about the mod itself, as I don't know anything about 3E rules.

BTW I have the Dragon magazine where Monk class was first introduced, so it's actually a 2.5 Rule addition.

[Salk]

Well, I specifically asked in the "Sword&Fist" Forum what the changes between the Bioware Monk kit and the 3Ed counterpart (that they are proposing) are and I must say that they really differ a lot (the "Sword&Fist" monk seems to overall weaken the Monk).

See here: http://forums.gibber...?showtopic=7662

[Miloch]

Everyone seems to assume monks in BG must come from 3rd edition rules, but in fact the class was around in bogstandard 1st edition. And look at all the changes in Salk's link necessary to make them closer to 3e. So possibly the designers got the specs from 1e or "2.5" or a derivative.

As to the wisdom/AC thing, there is the suggestion monks "undergo a rigorous mental discipline" which gives them some sort of mind-over-body control. But in 1e rules, their AC simply got better by level; it wasn't linked specifically to wisdom that I know. Maybe WtC decided the mind-over-body thing was more of a function of wisdom rather than experience. Rather counterintuitive, like other such decisions to maim decent classes.

[NiGHTMARE]

Although monks did exist in 1E and 2E, they were quite different than those present in 3E. The 2E monk in particular was simply a variant cleric, with a different selection of spells, unable to wear armor, and an AC bonus every even level. Given the monk class in Baldur's Gate 2 isn't a spellcaster and has abilities such as stunning blow and lay on hands, and gains immunity to disease, poison, charm, etc (all of the monk didn't have before 3E), the BG2 class is obviously based on the 3E incarnation.

EDIT: Oh, and the changes introduced by Sword & Fist are actually based on the 3.5E monk, which has a few minor differences to the 3E one. S&F currently doesn't provide the wisdom bonus to AC, although we were going to investigate ways to implement it for future versions.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 28 April 2007 - 03:51 AM.

[berelinde]

Questionably valid argument to support applying wisdom bonus to AC:

Part of wisdom is intuition. Perhaps monks have been trained to use this intuition to better anticipate where and when their opponents will strike.

Or not. I'm not married to this explanation.

[Kulyok]

I'd install this.

By the way, does anyone know if there're any plans to introduce CHA as a major stat for a Sorcerer? Make him only choose three spells per level, if his CHA is abysmal, and whatnot? But I guess this is hopelessly hardcoded, so.

[NiGHTMARE]

The 3.5E Player's Handbook provides the following explanation for the AC wisdom bonus:

"A monk is highly trained at dodging blows, and she has a sixth sense that lets her avoid even unanticipated attacks."

[GeN1e]

Make him only choose three spells per level, if his CHA is abysmal, and whatnot?

Three - is it amount of slots of each level or amount of different spells of each leve? The first is quite similar to AC/WIS, while the second... possible but very ugly.

Edited by GeN1e, 28 April 2007 - 05:30 AM.