250 replies to this topic

[kismethawk]

Kismet, Freedom is a 9th level wizard spell, and I want this thing to have some utility besides.

Eek, sorry! *bows* sorry sorry. I'm still in Neverwinter Nights gaming mode...uh...I forget the D&D edition rules used for that , but there it's something like a six/seventh level cleric spell with a different affect, since they don't have that really annoying spell imprisonment (die imprisonment die!) - Nice spell for yourself, but soooo annoying in the hands of the enemy.

Um...yeah death ward is good shows Darain's concern for Charname

I'm just gonna hide under my rock now whilst I familiarise myself with BG2 again...

[Kellen]

Freedom of Movement? Birdlike. Helpful.

Permanent or X times a day.

[Tempest]

*Shrugs* Still just an idea at this point, though one I am definitely warming to. I'm more inclined to think Darian would give it a more directly protective enchantment, but freedom of motion would work, too. It would have to be a x# per day, however, unless a quick slot item can be used to grant a permanent effect-I'm not sure if they can or not.

[kismethawk]

*clicks fingers* Yes! Freedom of movement was what I was getting at!

Silly me...uh yeah I came back from my stone; wasn't too comfortable under there with the drow, umberhulks and all...

[Kellen]

I'd suspected, but as I wasn't sure, didn't want to put words in your mouth.

[Solstice]

I second the freedom of movement enchantment. I know I certainly would have a reason to keep it regularly in a quick slot, as compared to a death ward or defensive harmony item. I'd say giving it FoM 3x per day would make it a helpful little item in Chapter Six and beyond, if that's when Darian will give it to Charname.

[Kellen]

And rangers can actually get that spell (in 3rd ed, but you aren't looking here!).

[Tempest]

Feedback seems positive, and it doesn't seem too difficult to create an item like this (going to be reusing graphics from an existing item-the harper bird item), so the enchanted handcarved bird is now officially on the to-do list. For the moment, it's set to be a result of a player-initiated dialogue-in Chapter Six, ask Darian about his hobby, and if RomanceActive is 2, he'll blush and give you a bird he carved for you. And y'all can count on another progress report update and banter preview (with Viconia this time ) later this evening-just about finished with all the "ask Darian" player-initiated dialogue questions.

And unless there are any further objections from the peanut gallery, Freedom of Movement 3x per day it is.

[Tempest]

Got another thing I'd like feedback on: I understand that most npc's use a random number function to determine how the npc responds to a player-initiated flirt, so there are multiple possible responses to the same repeatable flirt. Anyone know how many responses npc's tend to have to each flirt?

[berelinde]

"So, Gavin, can you tell me more about yourself?" has 4 responses, but they vary with each stage of the relationship. Informing him that he needs to see to the needs of the PC has dozens of area dependant ones that are at least partially influenced by a further PC response.

It all depends.

[Tempest]

That's a non-issue with Darian, though, (for SoA, anyhow). The most intense the relationship will get in SoA is kissing, and only that towards the end, though Charname will certainly have somewhat more... provocative options. I'm asking in terms of responses to general flirts.

When you force-talk to Darian, you get four options: one for flirting with him, one for getting-to-know-you questions (many taken from the Ask Darian thread-I will give credit where it is due in the readme!), one for starting a more serious talk, and one to do nothing. For this example, Charname chooses the option to bring up the flirt menu.

From the menu of flirts, Charname chooses "(Try to catch Darian's gaze)". Darian then responds with "(Darian turns his eyes toward you-you have his attention)". Now from here, you can choose one of four or five variations on the "smile at him" theme, plus a more provocative response or two. All of the possible responses (aside from the special one or two) lead to the same "pool" of possible responses-I simply give Charname several options, depending on whether she wants to give him a mischeivous grin, easygoing smile, or simply blush at him. They all lead to the same pool of possible responses from him.

[berelinde]

I was using that example to illustrate the variability in the number of possible responses, not necessarily content

Of course, Darian is very different, and his PID options will be different, too. Still, at least now you know what I did with Gavin: somewhere between 4 and 40.

[Tempest]

Life has taken a turn for the hectic lately, but I'd say I'm about halfway done writing the player-initiated RA = 4 flirts. For the repeatable ones, I'm aiming for four to six different responses from Darian on average.

Some things to look forward to:

Bards will be able to say/sing poetry to him-I found several different poems that you can choose from, depending on what you want to say-there's one praising his devotion and duty, a light-hearted one poking fun at Darian's general lack of a sense of humor, a playful one hinting that you and he have feelings for each other, and a couple of other choices.

Thieves and bards will have some sleight of hand tricks they can play on him, both playful and provocative (you'll see what I mean when you see them).

For those who have requested it, the flirts to simply smile at him, take his hand, and the ilk will not go away in RA 2, though Darian's responses may be a little different

And there are some downright silly flirts I have in mind for a particularly playful Charname-the kind that will make Darian think to himself "By Aerdrie Faeyna, I think I may be coming to have feelings for this woman, if I manage to restrain myself from killing her!"

[Kulyok]

Bards will be able to say/sing poetry to him-I found several different poems that you can choose from, depending on what you want to say-there's one praising his devotion and duty, a light-hearted one poking fun at Darian's general lack of a sense of humor, a playful one hinting that you and he have feelings for each other, and a couple of other choices.

These are not existing poems by existing (famous) authors, are they? Because when I recognize a real life classic in the mod(Solaufein is infamous for that, and some of BG1 NPC, unfortunately), it's a huge immersion-breaking thing for me.

On the other hand, some modders, as far as I know, do their own poetry(or ask around for help), and do it very successfully indeed.

[Neferit]

These are not existing poems by existing (famous) authors, are they? Because when I recognize a real life classic in the mod(Solaufein is infamous for that, and some of BG1 NPC, unfortunately), it's a huge immersion-breaking thing for me.

On the other hand, some modders, as far as I know, do their own poetry(or ask around for help), and do it very successfully indeed.

Well, nothing againts modders' own poetry but as a member of Sigil translation team I have to say that I'm really happy when I found that the poetry in translated mod is from some existing author (Shakespeare, Rimbaud, Verlaine,...). It's much more easier to use already existing translation than make your own. (although we have pretty hard time while searching translation of "To his coy mistress" )

[Kulyok]

If I remember correctly, some Russian translator decided not to translate one of Soulafein's poems, but to replace it with one by Pushkin, instead. Needless to say, it was quite, um, refreshing. "Why, Soulafein, you studied Pushkin in the eighth grade, too?"

[Neferit]

Heh... I'll try to suggest this to Raz/another translator of Solaufein But I have absolutely no idea with whose poetry we should replace it :-/ Neruda? Vrchlický?

And Pushkin (eh, I wanted to write in Czech - Pu?kin) is nice choice - I quite like his poetry or his other writing. You in Russia have good writers

But back to the Kulyok's question - own or assumed poetry?

[Tempest]

Currently using existing poems, but I'm trying hard to stay away from the instantly-recognizable "famous" poems. I may end up deleting the poetry flirts altogether-it's something I'm really not all that comfortable with. I might leave it as a generic "(Write a poem praising Darian's steadfast resolve)" or some such, to leave the details to the player's imagination (if they had a specific poem in mind, for example). There is going to be a fair amount of ambiguity in the flirting anyhow, for much the same reason: I prefer to leave the details to the player's imagination. In romances in BG and other games, I've always preferred the ones that give the player freedom to imagine whatever they want, rather than spelling out word for word everything that was said and done-if you read Perspectives, I tend to use the same technique.

[berelinde]

Yeah, I've got a Shakespeare poem in Gavin, too, and a well-known one, to boot, but my skills as a poet are so utterly pathetic I wouldn't dream of inflicting them on the reader.

Couldn't you have a bardic PC "recite poetry" by just giving her a nice first line and letting the player make the connection that the rest of the poem follows? Cheesy, but you could let her pick from a choice of several: romantic, suggestive, or even mocking?

[Tempest]

Another question: about how many player-initiated flirts are there usually for each stage of the romance?

I'm currently going for eight or so repeatable flirts, most of which have variations you can choose from that don't affect Darian's response, save for the more suggestive/provocative variant(s) I have for most of them (about the only one that doesn't is the smile flirt). There will also be a number of non-repeatable, "special" flirts-these include the aforementioned poetry and sleight of hands flirts, some other class-specific flirts, as well as some more involved flirts and area specific ones. For example, when you're in a forest area, you can join Darian as he stretches and exercises-doesn't start very romantic, but, well, you can imagine-you'll be able to do it at RA 2 as well, in which case it will be one of the more... suggestive flirts, depending on the choices you make...

I'm also now introducing, for lack of a better term, a silliness meter-if you consistently act girlish, playful, and generally silly around Darian, especially when flirting with him, you'll have some very light-hearted options when you speak to Darian. Case in point: if you're in an outdoor area with water, feel free to shove him in. He'll forgive you eventually.