250 replies to this topic

[Tempest]

Well, it's good to know that you're interested, but poke Berelinde if you want Gavin. (Sorry, Bere! ).

1. Will Darian care/react at all if my main character romances Anomen instead, or would he mind if I had a fling with Anomen, dumped him, and started flirting with Darian?

To the first part, no. Darian couldn't care less what Charname and Anomen are doing-it's not like he's developing any feelings towards her ( ).

To the second part... that's something I'm considering. Normally, if RomanceActive ever goes to 2 for any character, it kills all other potential romances (or in the case of Darian, Imoen, and probably some others, switches them to the non-romantic friendship track). However, I am seriously toying with the idea of allowing Charname to "restart" the romance if she's switched it to 5 (the non-romantic friendship). The thing is, even though Darian starts the lovetalks, Charname is the driving force in the relationship-she's the one moving things forward until Darian comes around. Now, if Charname were to fall in love with Anomen but later terminate the relationship for whatever reason, it's not out of the question that she might drift back towards Darian. There would obviously be some conflict there (even if Anomen wasn't in the party), but I think Charname could rekindle the possibility of a deeper relationship. About the only exception would be if Darian's hit RomanceActive with Mazzy in the meantime, and even if not, I might have to include a wisdom or charisma check to see if Charname can successfully reboot the romance (set it back to RA 4 if it was at 5). It's a complicated question, in terms of both how Darian would treat it, and how it would be coded, but it's definitely on my mind.

A bit of clarification on what I'm thinking about: Darian's romance is split into no fewer than five distinct settings. RA 1 is Darian being extremely wary of you, but reluctantly starting to rethink things. RA 2 is, as per the usual convention, a serious relationship. RA 3 is a completely dead relationship, and he won't even think of you as a friend. RA 4 is a friendship, but hinting at things becoming deeper. RA 5 is friendship with no possibility of going deeper. RA will go to 5 automatically if you hit RA 2 with Anomen or politely end the relationship with Darian. However, should Anomen's RA hit 3, or it's 2 but he's kicked out of the party (not sure if his romance automatically dies if you kick him out of the party or not), I'm thinking about allowing Charname to bring Darian's RA back to 4.

2. Will Darian ever actually be compelled to "take deadly action against Charname and the party" as you've put it, or are you just blowing smoke?

Darian won't ever come to that point, no. Especially since if he ever did, Darian isn't stupid: he wouldn't spontaneously attack the party, he'd probably quietly assassinate the party in their sleep without warning. Since that would obviously ruin the game, it's not going to happen.

3. Is there any reason he wouldn't romance a halfling main character, if he's willing to romance Mazzy?

Not *really*, no. But there are some parts of Darian's background that you'll find out about in the romance that just wouldn't have the same effect on a halfling Charname as they would on a human/elf/half-elf. Even though I could conceivably rewrite those parts, they're also among Darian's more important talks. And a halfling Charname also wouldn't see the edge Darian has towards Charname otherwise. There's no reason a halfling couldn't really *romance* Darian, but the relationship just doesn't work the same with a halfling.

4. How about some love for the half-orc ladies?

No. You'll find out very quickly that Darian has little-to-no respect for a half-orc. The Menel'Quessir simply kill orcs on sight, and that's Darian's first instinct on meeting a half-orc. He might develop a reluctant respect of sorts for a half-orc, but the relationship will be seriously truncated-the friendship arc won't even occur. He's willing to work with you, but that's as far as it goes. Not his most shining personality trait, but Darian's xenophobia will *really* show.

5. What would happen if I had either A) a male elf main character in the same party as Aerie, Darian and Haer'Dalis, a female main character in the same party as Anomen, Darian, Aerie, and Haer'Dalis, or C) Darian, Mazzy, Edwin, Korgan, Valygar, and a male main character?

I'll have to think about that-lots of potential for some fun "easter egg" type talks there. Darian will tell Haer'Dalis that he has no interest in Aerie, so that's not an issue, but the Mazzy-Darian-Edwin-Korgan thing could be fun. Darian is very much a "Touch her and die" kind of person (this goes for Charname, too... Salvanas will not be having a happy day if he hits on Charname with Darian present), so plenty of potential for silliness... Damn you for making more work for me!

Edited by Tempest, 27 April 2007 - 01:04 PM.

[Tempest]

I've gotten enough PM's about this that I think I'll post an explanation here:

Several people have questioned why Darian is going to stay with Charname for the Tree of Life battle. He has no loyalty towards the elves of Suldanessellar, no personal reason to want to kill Irenicus, no connection to the Tree of Life (the game never really explains just what the nature of the Tree's power is, and just how far it spreads, but I've decided the Avariel are far enough divorced from their cousins that they wouldn't suffer if it died, just as the drow wouldn't be affected), and if he's not in a romance with Charname, he doesn't have personal loyalty as an excuse either, and while Mazzy would certainly not let him leave, Darian is very much a lone wolf if he's not in a romance with either character. However, Darian *does* have very good reasons for staying at Charname's side for the Tree of Life battle. For one thing, he is fully aware that if Irenicus joins the Seldarine, he's going to be an evil god, and Darian will not hesitate to give his life to stop that from happening, Charname or no. Also, by that point in the game, Darian's outlook has changed-he knows evil when he sees it, and will do everything he can to destroy it. His own life is expendable, in his mind.

I hope that clears up any confusion.

[Solstice]

This is an interesting idea-as far as I know, no other character is willing to forgive Charname if she accidentally destroys the relationship, but I'm not sure if this fits Darian's personality as you've described it-I've gotten the impression that Darian wouldn't even think of falling in love with Charname, but now he's willing to forgive me and give me another chance if I really push his hot buttons? The idea that Darian is far more wary second time around makes sense, but I just don't think it sounds quite right that he would let bygones be bygones.

On the other hand, I do love the idea itself-it adds a new dimension to him as a character, and it makes him seem much more understanding than other characters. That you only get one second chance keeps it from being an "Oh, it doesn't matter what I say-I can always make him forgive me".

Oh, and I fully understand that the relationship with Darian is meant to be extremely slow to mature-it does make sense for him as a character. But if the Perspectives stories are any indication, when he does fall for you, he falls rather hard.

[Tempest]

This is an interesting idea-as far as I know, no other character is willing to forgive Charname if she accidentally destroys the relationship, but I'm not sure if this fits Darian's personality as you've described it-I've gotten the impression that Darian wouldn't even think of falling in love with Charname, but now he's willing to forgive me and give me another chance if I really push his hot buttons? The idea that Darian is far more wary second time around makes sense, but I just don't think it sounds quite right that he would let bygones be bygones.

On the other hand, I do love the idea itself-it adds a new dimension to him as a character, and it makes him seem much more understanding than other characters. That you only get one second chance keeps it from being an "Oh, it doesn't matter what I say-I can always make him forgive me".

Darian's a bit more complex a character than he appears to be-you have to remember that he is a very private individual. He means what he says but rarely says what he means. He does quietly and internally re-evaluate his outlook on things over the course of SoA, and Charname *can* convince him he was wrong. But it's conditional: she has to prove to him he was wrong, or he'll decide she was merely manipulating him.

But if the Perspectives stories are any indication, when he does fall for you, he falls rather hard.

That he does-you'll really see hints of this in his special scenes, then in full bloom in ToB... now leave me alone, pest.

[Kellen]

I got your pm, Tempest.

And yep. Good stuff.

Hehe, read the last line and than looked to your avatar. Heheh. Let's just say that portrait is intimidating.

[Kulyok]

This is an interesting idea-as far as I know, no other character is willing to forgive Charname if she accidentally destroys the relationship

Gavin, Ajantis, Coran, Xan(BG1/BG2) all do, either in case of her accidentally choosing another suitor(Gavin-Ajantis-Coran-Xan(BG1)), or accidentally saying something really rude(Gavin, Xan-BG2). And maybe there's someone else unaccounted for.

[Solstice]

That explains it-I never played BG1 Tutu, since I don't have Baldur's Gate 1. Sorry, Tempest.

[Kellen]

On that last preview. Perhaps an option to have Darian lead you an Elven dance would be appreciated...

[Tempest]

Good idea-was really thinking about that scene in terms of Charname dictating what was going on, but he'd certainly be willing to teach her an elven dance at that point. Mmmm... not sure whether to limit that option to just elves/half-elves, or let a human learn an elven dance as well...

[Solstice]

I don't see why you'd limit that to just elves and half-elves: it sounds like a great opportunity for Darian to really share a bit of his culture with the player-it can't be a one-way cultural exchange, can it?

[Tempest]

I don't see why you'd limit that to just elves and half-elves: it sounds like a great opportunity for Darian to really share a bit of his culture with the player-it can't be a one-way cultural exchange, can it?

Yep, it's currently planned for a human to ask Darian to teach her an elven dance (similar to the beginning of the most recent installment of Perspectives, which I admittedly drew heavily from for this flirt), though what happens will be a bit different from a Charname with elven blood.

Bit of a side question, but is there any music currently planned for Darian's theme?

Not at present. There's actually a music theme I'd really love to use, but I'm not sure if it would be legal to. It's a music theme from Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends, and I'm not sure if I could borrow the music theme in question, even if I gave full credit to where it came from. If not, I'll try to find a good music theme, hopefully a piano piece, since that's the insturment I always envisioned for Darian's musical theme.

For curious folks out there who do have Rise of Legends and want to know the music I'm thinking of, go to the RoL folder, audio folder, music folder, and the file LenoraLongAmb.

[Jenova]

There's actually a music theme I'd really love to use, but I'm not sure if it would be legal to. It's a music theme from Rise of Nations: Rise of Legends, and I'm not sure if I could borrow the music theme in question, even if I gave full credit to where it came from.

I don't think it should be a problem, there are a few mods that use movie themes (like BG1 NPC Project to name the most popular one) so why would a game theme be any different if you give credit to the developers of Rise of Nations?

[Tempest]

That's good news-I think the piece in question does suit Darian very well.


Also, I have a question: what's a rough estimate of the number of player-initiated flirts for each stage of the romance? I don't want to go overboard, but I also don't want to leave people not having as many options as they're used to. I can always come up with more, even if it is very awkward, but I don't want it to get out of hand.

Some bad news: I'd intended to attach the music file in question to this post so y'all could hear the music I was planning, but I got an "Upload failed. You are not permitted to upload this type of file". Oh well-guess you'll have to wait until I finish Darian.

[Kellen]

I would think of wind instruments for Aerdrie.

But then for my cleric I always thought of percussion, meant to sound like rain falling on the...

Okay I'm done. Anyways, perhaps you could, um. Yeah I got nothing.

[kismethawk]

Um...was not sure where to post this; did not seem to be the topic to add into the 'ask Darain' thread, even though I saw the info there, but I think the wood carving is kind of unique

I was just wondering though...if you were thinking of Charname receiving a wood carved gift from Darian? Admittedly this would also be original, compared to the selection of rings and necklaces (and other things I can't think of right now...not sure if Kelsey's make-up counts...) that are given by other NPCs - note that I did not mind receiving such gifts from NPCs I am just saying it is a nice change

Also if you were going with the gift-giving idea, maybe it could depend on Charname's class; for example a bard would receive a wooden flute with music that gives some sort of buffing for the party, a druid a carved animal/flower/plant with summon or entangle ability, a cleric a holy icon/symbol of Aerdrie that gives a type of protection (so it might not be Charname's deity, but Aerdrie is a good goodess so I doubt there would be much objection).

Uh anyway, that was just me going off a million miles an hour, maybe in a direction you would not even consider...and the fact that you would have to make some custom items would mean time...and that I am making this complicated

just a thought...um, that is...if you weren't joking about the wood-carving idea - oh dear...

[Tempest]

Hehe, it's not anything that important. You'll see Darian's pastime come up a few times, but never in a real big way-it's just what he's prone to do in his spare time, when he's not reading, writing his report, or thinking. I doubt Darian would create anything that would actually go into Charname's inventory. One of his RA 2 flirts does have Darian give Charname a gift-an engraving of her profile, but it's like Anomen's rose, and won't actually go into her inventory. I can think of several ideas for a small gift he might give at the end of the romance (meant mainly for Suldanessellar and ToB) that would have a few magical powers (even if I don't go ahead with the optional ranger/cleric variant, Darian is really meant to have access to divine spells, not druidic spells, and every time the subject comes up, Darian will be referred to as using clerical magic, and holding a holy symbol of Aerdrie Faeyna).

Rough idea:
Darian gives Charname a small, handcarved wooden bird that he's given magical power. I have no idea if this would be considered under or over-powered, but here's the rough idea:

Wooden Bird
This small wooden bird was handcarved for you by Darian. It initially just seems to be a memento of affection, but even at his most blissful and romantic, Darian still has a certain practicality. Calling upon Aerdrie Faeyna, he's bestowed the bird with the ability to safeguard your life. You can invoke the magic simply by holding the bird and concentrating.
Quick Slot Item
Death Ward x1 per day

Edited by Tempest, 10 May 2007 - 12:46 PM.

[berelinde]

For a token gift, one of those enchantments would be appropriate. *All* of them together is overkill.

[kismethawk]

What about the spell 'freedom'? It would seem quite appropriate for a bird figurine. Erm...that is a cleric spell right? I forget...

And I think I agree with berelinde; one type of effect is enough, how many times it can be used a day could be up to your discretion though...maybe?

[Tempest]

Alright, it was just an idea. Out of all of them, I think I'll probably end up leaving it with Death Ward as a once per day power (not the least because I really hate the save or die spells...). Might change it to a three times per day power, though, if it's just one spell-I'm really not used to what people consider under and over-powered. And for the record, this would be given to Charname sometime during Chapter Six. I'll probably reuse some other item's graphic for it (thinking the Montaron-Bird thingy in this case).

Kismet, Freedom is a 9th level wizard spell, and I want this thing to have some utility besides.

Edited by Tempest, 10 May 2007 - 12:55 PM.