250 replies to this topic

[berelinde]

Although I probably have the only cleric on Faerun who apparently casts know alignment on a PC before deciding on whether or not he wants to fall in love with <CHARNAME> ( ), I'd have to side with Kulyok on this one. It would be quite easy to give him a line like "Could you really abandon your companion here, of all places? You are clearly not the woman I thought you were."

No sense breaking that 4th wall if there is any way to avoid it. Were this a joke mod, I'd hand you the hammer, as I find well-placed 4th wall breakage hysterical, sometimes, but Darian is a serious NPC, and deserves to have good dialogue.

[Tempest]

Although I probably have the only cleric on Faerun who apparently casts know alignment on a PC before deciding on whether or not he wants to fall in love with <CHARNAME> ( ),

Probably so, yes, but evidently Darian is the only character with access to detect evil who casts it before he decides if he's even going to speak to Charname or not (he doesn't really care if you're good or neutral, but he won't even join a party led by an evil main character).

This sounds very sensible. I think there might be an alternative, though: for example, the Flirt Pack allows to summon "My lover, Jaheira", letting the player think that they were lovers/friends, but the player decided to go to the talking Heads alone, leaving his beloved/friends in Suldanesselar. So, if the player starts a ToB game, he may not summon "Just Darian", but he may summon "My lover, Darian", or "My friend, Darian", no?

I'm iffy about this-I always saw the fate spirit as a cheap way out of things. But there's logic in what you say.

Technically, it may cause difficulties with Crossmod Banter Pack, if you will wish to participate in the future: upon some other romance going to 2, it automatically sets Darian's to a variable of your choice. (So, if you will always want the RomanceActive go to 5 if, say, Kelsey's has gone to 2, no problem, but otherwise there might be trouble).

It shouldn't be a problem between the two friendship variables-RA = 4 is basically there as a condition that must be met in order for the first of the special scenes (which will set RA to 2) to occur-it won't occur if RA is 1, 3, or 5. The friendship track plays out the rest of the romance, save for the special scenes where Darian will finally come to admit he cares about you. In bare-bones terms, you only have to pursue the romance until RA becomes 4, then leave for Spellhold and enjoy the final arc (even though you'll have the normal lovetalks as well, from there on out), but I would highly encourage you to explore the whole romance.

[Tempest]

Didn't get as much done today as I'd hoped to, but I wrote Darian's Spellhold scene and a few of the Darian-initiated flirts (only the ones appropriate for RomanceActive = 4, though). The Spellhold scene is the first of the special scenes in Darian's romance, and it can go one of three ways: you can treat him with respect and encourage the romance to progress (not the best choice of words, I know), in which case RomanceActive will go to 2 and the writing will be on the wall as far as Charname and Darian are concerned. You can also choose to tell him you consider him a friend-a good, steadfast friend, yes, but just a friend nevertheless, at which point RA will go to 5. Finally, of course, you can destroy the entire relationship if you wish.

Also, a female Charname might find Jaheira looking over her shoulder a few times as the relationship progresses, in a concerned aunt/much older sibling kind of way, which will continue into ToB (and she'll definitely be concerned depending on what path the ToB relationship goes down). I always thought it was rather strange she didn't comment on Charname's relationship with Anomen/Kelsey/Edwin/whoever-like it or not, she *has* taken up the role of your mentor/guardian (unless Charname is male and she falls in love with him, of course ).

[Tempest]

Some good news: Two more of Darian's lovetalks have been written up, and I've starting coding the romance as well.

Oh, and as much as I love taunting y'all with hints of future content, the real reason I never announced which npc Darian might romance if Charname isn't an option is because I wasn't actually sure who it would be-I was writing dialogue for two characters, trying to see which one I felt was more fitting. For various reasons, I've made the decision: Darian may, under the appropriate circumstances, romance Mazzy.

I'm aware that this is unusual, to say the least (Avariel + Halfling isn't a pairing I think was ever on anyone's mind), but I felt it was, ultimately, extremely appropriate. Despite their racial differences, they will see a lot of themselves in each other, ranging from their stoic tendencies to the fact that they fill in their societies the role that paladins perform in human society (as a Truesword and a Talon, respectively). Patrick and his loss will definitely be a big factor in the relationship, but both Mazzy and Darian are experienced fighters, as an adventurer and soldier respectively, and what will start as simply a close friendship will become something more.

Mazzy and Darian will certainly have non-romantic dialogues if the romance isn't going to happen (they'll be good friends anyhow-she's one of the few characters Darian is immediately on good terms with), and I've already stated the circumstances under which the romance is liable to happen. I will be coding in real-time delays for the romance track, but since the Mazzy-Darian relationship is shorter in terms of lovetalks than the Charname-Darian relationship, the time delay will be shorter, and I'm planning for the romance to continue into ToB. And for those wondering just how deep the romance will go, I'm not real sure yet, but there *is* evidence out there of halflings having relationships with elves (though the idea of them having kids in an epilogue will be a tough one to figure out, although they're certainly the types of people to adopt an orphan or some such if they couldn't have children of their own).

You can also count on some new banters between Mazzy, Darian, and Valygar/Aerie if and when Darian and Mazzy fall in love.

And before anyone asks, I'm still debating whether or not a halfling Charname would be able to romance Darian or not-I really see Mazzy as being something of a special case, but it's not out of the question.

Finally, for those who were guessing which npc Darian might fall in love with, you get half credit if you guessed Jaheira-she was the other character I strongly considered writing the romance for.

Edited by Tempest, 07 April 2007 - 05:33 PM.

[Kellen]

How much credit do we get for saying Mazzy?

At least I thought I'd said Mazzy. Guess not. But anyways, cool! And Jaheira's taken. She's mine, no love for Darian. (Okay maybe once or twice, would have been okay should you have gone that route, but you didn't so I don't have to worry about it.)

Ah yes. A question of Mazzy and Patrick. How will you be working that out?

[Tempest]

A question of Mazzy and Patrick. How will you be working that out?

Patrick's loss will be a fairly important part of what brings Mazzy and Darian together, actually. They'll see a lot of themselves in each other, and Patrick died in the line of duty, which Darian will speak with her about-he's a soldier, and he knows well the loss of friends in battle. Mazzy certainly won't get over his death quickly, but Darian will be helping her get through it. Their relationship is the kind where they'll naturally and unintentionally drift together as close friends until they eventually realize that, even though the idea was the furthest thing from their minds, they fell in love. Oh, and at some point, either in SoA or ToB, you can definitely count on Mazzy feeling incredibly guilty over how fast she moved on from Patrick to Darian (much in the same vein as Jaheira with Khalid).

One other update for the night: I've started rewriting some of Darian's dialogues (been a busy Easter). I felt Darian was starting to become a little too one-dimensional: dour, stoic, and inwardly emotional. But now, even though he is seldom inclined to show it around Charname until ToB, he does have a lighter side to him-somewhat like Keldorn or Mazzy, he will have the occasional lighthearted moment (Edwina being a classic, but good example). You can probably expect to see more of this side to him in ToB, but he isn't *always* a boring, stoic warrior.

[Zyraen]

I'm a quite keen on Mazzy myself, and I like her character and personality.
I'm also quite fond of the Darian idea myself.

But this I'll have to say regarding this...
- probability of ordinary elf getting with halfling = very very low (maybe 2%?)
- probability of elven nobility getting with human = very very low (maybe 2% ? stodgy snooty elves)
- probability of winged elf willingly mixing with any kind of elf = next to none (maybe 0.1% chance, if they should leave their home city)
- probability of winged elf willingly mixing with any non-elf being, even on official matters = even lower (maybe 0.05%)
- probability of winged elf willingly mixing with halfling, on UNOFFICIAL matters = very very very low (maybe 0.005% ? ie 10% chance of the previous item)
- probability of winged elf falling in love with halfling = astronomically low (perhaps at the very very most, 0.001%, ie 20% of the previous item)

Yes I like Mazzy, yes I like Darian, but there's some things that just don't click very well, I feel. Even them being close friend I would consider a long shot, given what I know of Darian's personality.

[Tempest]

- probability of ordinary elf getting with halfling = very very low (maybe 2%?)
- probability of elven nobility getting with human = very very low (maybe 2% ? stodgy snooty elves)
- probability of winged elf willingly mixing with any kind of elf = next to none (maybe 0.1% chance, if they should leave their home city)
- probability of winged elf willingly mixing with any non-elf being, even on official matters = even lower (maybe 0.05%)
- probability of winged elf willingly mixing with halfling, on UNOFFICIAL matters = very very very low (maybe 0.005% ? ie 10% chance of the previous item)
- probability of winged elf falling in love with halfling = astronomically low (perhaps at the very very most, 0.001%, ie 20% of the previous item)

You missed a couple of things here. First of all, Darian is not nobility, as he will tell you if you ask, and it will also come up with Nalia (Darian himself will never speak to Charname of his family much, other than his younger sister when he asks Charname about Imoen, but you can ask him all about his family, among other things). In the Avariel society I created, Talons can come from any and all walks of life in Avariel society, ranging from ordinary soldiers identified by officials as having extraordinary potential (this is Darian's case) to initiates in the priesthood. Remember that Darian is not mixing with the party by choice-he's there to repay his debt of honor to Charname, but he *is* going to talk to other members of the party, and Darian will really see a lot of himself in Mazzy. The "probability of a winged welf willingly mixing with any non-elf being" does not apply-it is extraordinarily low. It is also satisfied when Darian joins the party in the first place. The probabilities are rigged in this case.

And remember that Darian's xenophobia fades over the course of SoA-he is initially on borderline hostile terms with just about everyone (notable exceptions include Mazzy, Keldorn, and of course Aerie), but in the end, the only characters he doesn't reluctantly come to terms with are Minsc (Darian has nothing *against* Minsc, per se, but considers him dangerously insane), Viconia (not because she's a drow, but rather because of what she says/does in the banters), and Edwin (you should be able to guess why). He even accepts Korgan, to a degree-he regards Korgan as dangerous, but also predictable, and hence a non-threat. In particular, the scene in Ust Natha (which there are two versions of, one for if you're in the final arc of the romance, and one for otherwise) will really open his eyes.

Oh, and the incongruity of it all will occur to Mazzy and Darian. Here's one of their lovetalks:

Mazzy: I am troubled by the looks people give us, Darian. I know you disregard them as a matter of course, but I would like to by taken seriously by people outside of this group.

Darian: People have prejudices, Mazzy, whether they realize it or not, and it's difficult to do anything about it. And to some degree, don't take their looks too harshly-we *are* something of an oddity, by any race's standard.

Mazzy: True enough. I think even my family would find our relationship strange, to say the least.

Darian: Yes, as would mine.

Mazzy: Perhaps we'll be able to visit them someday, after this is over. Come, let's get moving before <CHARNAME> starts wondering just what exactly we're up to.

Ultimately, Zyraen, it also boils down to one thing, which I think Darian expresses perfectly in one of the few dialogues I've already written for ToB: "As early as a month ago, I'd have pronounced such a thing impossible. But, (indicates you) we seem to be making up the rules about what is and is not possible as we go along". (Just for reference, he's actually talking to Imoen during that line, and presumably within earshot of Charname)

Edited by Tempest, 08 April 2007 - 04:57 PM.

[Zyraen]

It's true, there's many things in life that we wouldn't think possible to begin with.

So I guess it's up to the implementation then The situation outlined may appear of astronomically low proportions, but you think it's plausible and can make the player populace move with the idea (much like what Bioware did with the whole Bhaalspawn and then becoming a God story plot), it's all good with the right writing skills.

[Tempest]

Well, in response to your earlier comment on Darian's personality, I'm actually writing a couple of quick very short stories in a fanfic manner to help folks get a better grasp of Darian's personality and the way his mind works. Each is no more than a paragraph or two, and there will be one from Darian's perspective and one from another character's. I know I haven't been presenting a terribly coherent view of how Darian views other characters and how other characters view him-this little side-trip from writing his dialogues is intended to correct that.

[Tempest]

I'm afraid I have a request: can anyone link me a site where I can find a list of common elven words and their meanings? I haven't been able to find such a list in my PnP handbooks, and I would really prefer to not have to make up any more than I have to-this matter is important to one of Darian's romance scenes, and any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Kellen]

Grey Company has an extensive dictionary. If you've need of any other words I can check at another dictionary I use. Same dialect, just several added words. It's open to only some people however(or at least I think so). Here it is at any rate.

Edited by Kellen, 09 April 2007 - 07:13 AM.

[Tempest]

That should work perfectly. Thank you very much!

[Tempest]

Minor update for today's activities: I have decided to remove the final romance scene that was scheduled to take place in Chapter 7, and for the last two hours, I have been working on writing Darian's new final romance scene, and it's still not finished. All I'm going to say is: you *will* want to rest in a forest area after you defeat Bodhi. Have fun speculating.

[Tempest]

Yay. Another daily update: I'm finally satisfied with Darian's final romance scene. I was never really happy with the plans for stretching the romance into Act 7-it always seemed forced and rushed to have the final scene occur so soon before the final battle. Now, the final scene will occur in Act 6, and only if you rest in a forest area after you defeat Bodhi. Strictly speaking, you won't *need* to have the scene to continue the romance into ToB, but I highly encourage it (or will, rather, once I write the rest of the lovetalks, special scenes, player-initiated dialogue, Mazzy romance, and interjections )-I spent a lot of time on it, and am very pleased with the way the SoA portion of the romance is concluded.

[Tempest]

Eh, didn't really expect to turn this into the update thread, but here goes: I'm almost done writing the romance (another day or two at most), and afterwards I'll begin coding the romance. After that, it'll just be a matter of the flirts, the player-initiated dialogues, the Darian-Mazzy romance, and the interjections.

Some other random notes/tips:

The change between the RA = 1 and the friendship arc is now much more gradual-rather than the big and abrupt change in Darian's attitude after one key lovetalk, he'll gradually soften to you as the lovetalks go on.

In the friendship phase of the romance, you can choose to brush off the friendship talks if you wish. However, this will affect the romance: if RA is at 4 (the final arc will begin once you leave for Spellhold), brushing him off will turn RA to 5: you'll still be friendly with him, but the final arc won't start (for the final arc to start, Darian has to be confident you'll take him seriously). On the other hand, if RA is already at 2 (you're in the final arc), you can dismiss the friendship talks without harming the romance, as Darian knows you take him seriously. Of course, there are a few times down the friendship line where you can destroy the relationship, no matter what stage it's at.

Darian has a family name now: Antharrna ("Watchful Storm" in elven). This really won't come up except in a specific lovetalk or two, but it is his last name.

Finally, a note on how he reacts to you in the final arc of the romance: Darian generally isn't prone to outward displays of affection except in rare cases, but as you will eventually see, he does have his moments.

[Brad]

I give up, I need to ask. I have been lurking around following the progress of Darian, but one thing that I read in the beginning still bugs me. you said, in one of your first discussions of him, that he would say not to release the slaves in the slums. I can't figure out the reasoning behind that. The best i can do is that either he decides that they are human, so who gives a crap, which doesnt seem right, or that he doesnt think you can take all the slavers, in which case, why does he need your help in the first place. assuming you decided to stay with that course, what is the rationalization behind that thought? if you dont want to give away that piece of information, thats fair enough, but I thought I would give it a shot.

[Kellen]

Maybe he doesn't believe slavery is wrong...

[Tempest]

Maybe he doesn't believe slavery is wrong...

Oh, Darian does indeed believe slavery is wrong. But he will warn you that what you're attempting to do is futile-you may free a few slaves, but the forces that create the demand for slavery, and the attitudes and minds behind it, will not be changed, and ultimately, freeing those slaves will only increase the demand for more-he uses a similar logic when he tries to explain the futility of Nalia's crusade to her. Darian walks a line between Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral, and while he ultimately does come out on the side of good, he won't always agree with a righteous do-gooder Charname (this won't affect the romance or his true nature, though-when push comes to shove, Darian *is* a strongly good-aligned individual).

The best i can do is that either he decides that they are human, so who gives a crap, which doesnt seem right

He wouldn't be quite so straightforward about it, but you're not too far off, actually. It is true that if there were an Avariel amongst their number (the slaves) he would go to hell and high water to rescue him/her, but initially, he does view humans in an extremely negative light-his thoughts on the subject of the slaves would be something along the lines of "Oh, their situation is unfortunate. But who's to say freeing them will do any good? They might turn right around and kill people, as humans are wont to do. It's not something we should get involved in."

[Brad]

guess I just didn't give him enough credit as a xenophobe. my mistake. appreciate the answer.