25 replies to this topic

[Bereth Darkides]

I have altered this post because I wanted to simply say thankyou to all the moders throughout the past many years for their work and effort.
Please disregard the orriginal post. It was out of frustration is all. ( just working very very hard, 1 day off in the past 3 weeks)

Edited by Bereth Darkides, 31 March 2007 - 01:48 PM.

[Chevalier]

Bereth Darkides,

What do you do for fun?? Do you keep doing it when is no longer fun? Do you want to fix the bugs?? Horred, who created BP, has moved on to other things. A few good people, like seanas, are working on it when they have the time.

[Kulyok]

I don't doubt their ability at all, and I knwo they can if they truly wanted to just make at least THESE mods works together solidly, they could.
They just Won't..

I just love this one.

[Kaeloree]

I'm afraid, Bereth, that I doubt they *are* thinking the exact same thing.

Your post could be rather offensive to those who spend their time continuing to work on BP, and who even now work to get a more stable version running. BP is in the best state it has ever been in - and you're telling me that's because they don't *want* it to work? Somehow, I find that a little... odd.

I would consider your next response very carefully before posting - with that one post, you've discounted the work that the BP modders have put in - in their position, I would be rather offended. Wouldn't you?

[Kulyok]

I'm afraid, Bereth, that I doubt they *are* thinking the exact same thing.

Your post could be rather offensive to those who spend their time continuing to work on BP, and who even now work to get a more stable version running. BP is in the best state it has ever been in - and you're telling me that's because they don't *want* it to work? Somehow, I find that a little... odd.

I would consider your next response very carefully before posting - with that one post, you've discounted the work that the BP modders have put in - in their position, I would be rather offended. Wouldn't you?

You're not actually being serious, are you? Okay, I haven't played BP, so I don't know how horrible it is - though I can guess. But "do it yourself, m----r" is either very funny, or rather frightening.

[Kaeloree]

Edited slightly... Thanks, Kulyok...

[Kulyok]

Just don't scare me like that.

(wistful sigh: I do wish I was able to do this cool "edit without edit showing" thingy, too... )

Edit: Ahem. You edited it in my post, too?

Edited by Kulyok, 26 March 2007 - 11:43 PM.

[ronin]

I could really post something here in reply to Bereth Darkides's post but I would probably get banned. The only thing I will say is that there are alot less bugs in the weidu version of BP than there were in the original. I have helped beta test the weidu version of BP and also helped fix bugs on it. seanas has a life besides modding and he is working on a new version of BP that should be almost bug free, but when is a mod 100% bug free?

I would reconsider your post, Bereth Darkides, it was totally unacceptable, rude and offensive.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Edit: Ahem. You edited it in my post, too?

Yeah, that's why Admis are for, to abuse power they have been given.

And by the way Bereth Darkides, all those mods should be working together, and if they won't and you know where the problem resides, I invite you to do the fix for us. Just know that most of them have been worked around already, you'll just have to find the most current go around and version, and that's why they are called version 1.plah cause one knows there can be problems that need to be fixed. Look at your own operation system in your computer, I bet that isn't the first version of the thing, if it's Windows, bad news, it's at least 4.XX, not 1.0 ,etc.

[Kaeloree]

There's little to no point in having the original, as it defeats the purpose of changing it.

[Narm]

Dear Bereth Darkides

Although I have not play the previous BP version, I feel that it's not fair to say something offensive to anyone. For anyone who have attempt to bulid their custom weapon, spell or dialouge file, they know buliding a mod isn't easy.

For the past 7 to 8 years since Baldur's Gate is around, I have saw the work of many great modders.

Even if you wouldn't credit them for what they have done, at least keep your offensive message to yourself. Especially they are not even correct.

Edited by Narm, 27 March 2007 - 02:31 AM.

[cmorgan]

Please let me draw an analogy, which will explain why very good, hard working people work very hard on both Tutu and BGT mods but still have troubles getting everything to work together nicely.

Please disassemble the following, and place the parts on the floor of your garage:
1 City Bus, 1 Ford Escort, 2 Mercury Grand Marquis , 1 Porshe 911, and 14 VW "kit roadsters", fully customized.

Please reassemble them into a single vehicle which can hold 36 to 48 passengers, go from 0 mph to 60 mph in 4.2 seconds, uses alternative fuels, off-roads successfully, looks hot enough that the girl down the block notices you, is safe enough that you can carry your mom around town, looks ugly enough that people take you seriously, takes Rome's streets and the Indianapolis 500 Track at equal speeds, and leaves behind no noise, smoke, or pollution. It should also be able to go through the drive-through at McDonalds™ and park in a standard European parking space, but be able to be driven on both the right and left hand sides.

Do this with little or no automotive design or building skills, in your own home, with what tools you have lying around from other projects. For no money, of course, but if you are really good at it someone will pat you on the head and say "nice doggie! If you can do this, can't you just add this one more little thing?".

Do this in your spare time, but be sure to document and log your work completely, because 27 other people are either working on the parts that you are using, building an alternative vehicle which is going to require your vehicle to be in production and widespread usage before it can be financed, and about 45000 other folks want to discuss each and every decision you make before, during, and after each change. Please also understand that while you are building the vehicle, an entire world full of people feel very strongly about the original vehicles incorporated into your vehicle, and may or may not agree that the changes you have made are ok...

This is modding Tutu.

Now then, multiply this by about a factor of 10, and you have BP.

The suprising thing is not that modders keep running into challenges with BP (Tutu has it's challenges, but is significantly reduced by the fact that none of the "Big Picture Mods" are designed for it) - it is that in spite of that very few of them have decided that it is not worth the attempt, and have simply said "my mod, my way, don't use anything else". Folks may not all agree on what is good for the community, and folks may all go to our separate corners about what is a "fix" and what is a "tweak", folks may even get frustrated enough to pass on the materials to others and move on to other pursuits...

but the folks who do the work deserve (and get) respect simply because they *do* *the* *work*.

Perhaps this is an opportunity for you to do what I did. I stopped lurking, started asking questions, begged a modder to take me on as an "apprentice", and put my time where my mouth was about to go.

You might find it is much harder than you thought, or you might find (like I did) that the pursuit is kinda fun. Otherwise, why would anyone do this at all?

Edited by cmorgan, 27 March 2007 - 07:05 PM.

[seanas]

haha - i haven't seen one of these posts in a while. i'll leave you to imagine my initial response

thanks ronin and chev for the defence, but it's hardly necessary: i'm well aware that v178 is horribly late; i'm equally aware that it will be finished when i've found the time to finish it, or when someone else has beaten me to it and finished it themselves.

we - the OP and myself - don't have a client-contractor relationship. we don't have mutually agreed SLAs against which my delivery of a project can be measured. we don't have a consumer-retailer relationship, where my lack of promised delivery can be actioned, or the misled consumer's rights asserted. we don't even have an author-reader relationship, where the reader can more-or-less-rightly rail against a breach of verisimilitude and the implied contract between author and reader. what we have is a collaborative relationship: anyone who downloads a mod is participating in a communal development process. (and yes: most communal development processes never finish, they just end).

that participation might not be very active - it might not extend beyond installing a mod once before immediately uninstalling and swearing never to go near it again, or it might go all the way to completing yr very own total conversion. in most cases, that participation involves playing a mod, and coming to a forum and describing the bugs/ incompatibilities/ conceptual difficulties/ alternative pathways you found whilst playing that mod. (nor does it matter that the author might reject any communal input that disagrees with their 'vision': as soon as you host a mod somewhere and allow feedback, yr part of the loop that feedback induces - all those bug reports from users you never meet in person have allowed yr mod to reach whatever level of quality it ends up reaching).

so: if you want a finished version of yr favourite mod - be it BP or whatever - then assist in whatever way you can, cos yr not buying a product, yr participating in a process. you dont have to learn to code or anything drastic, but you can at least provide feedback on what worked in yr game and what didnt. i play the game in one way, you might play it in another altogether: look at the recent discovery that the end of ToB in BP is horribly broken - proof, if it wasn't already obvious, that neither Horred nor i reach the end of the game with any regularity. that disovery might push back the eventual completion of v178, but an even later v178 that might actually be a final release beats the shit out of a v178 that requires an equally delayed v179 to fix the stuff we missed last time. if you want a faster completed version, then whatever help you can provide will speed up that process that much; if - as is yr right - you don't wish to help, then you also forgo yr right to whinge about completion delays.

executive summary: more feedback means faster completion; more foot-stamping means further derision.

Edited by seanas, 28 March 2007 - 07:00 AM.

[Salk]

This is hot so I'd like to be part of it trying to say my opinion.

Chev, Ronin and all the others (a wonderful cmorgan) who felt the need of pointing out the rudeness and disrespect of the initial post have done right doing so and I would add my voice to theirs.

"Dear" Bereth, we can see from the number of your posts how active you have been so far in this community. Still, you pretend things being done for you. Yes, for you because you shouldn't give us the sh*t you are speaking in the name of others. You are not. Like seanas said, provide feedback, be of help and your advices, if given with a minimum of respect, might be taken in consideration.

Said that, there is something that I too do not seem to understand very well, probably for my ignorance in modding: there are several projects (and Big Picture is certainly one of them) that are updated in a non very logical way, according to me.

1) Feedback is reported.

2) Bug X is individuated and squashed

3) Bug Y is not individuated

4) Bug Z is individuated but not squashed

5) No update untill Bugs X,Y,Z are done for

This is more or less how BP's development process works to my eyes. Then I wonder: why not update at least with a version that get rid of already fixed game breaking bugs ?

It cannot be for a lack of numbers to call a new version with. Numbers are infinite.

It cannot be for a generic evaluation by which a new version will have a worse result.

It cannot be for a newer version would provide no real benefits because it most defintely would.

So I am left wondering why.

This is the only answer I am interested in. I have personally been waiting years (no kidding) before playing a BGT session which should give me the "ultimate" challenge. I have given small contributions here and there in terms of ideas since I am no modder and I am thankful and proud of every modder, even those whose mods I will never play. I do hope I have not offended anybody, in particular seanas who is mantaining BP now, with this post. If I happened to do it, I apologize and would ask K'aeloree, a great Admin, to delete it completely. Thanks for reading down to here!

[Bereth Darkides]

I do appologize for coming accross as impatient or opinionated and for that I truly truly appologize.
The folks who have done work on these mods have done a bang-up job thus far.
My main issue is I've tried to play a game from start to finish numerous times over the years, and as far as "how long" iv'e been around, lets just say, if you have access to Teambg logged achives, you find my name there as unchanged throughout the past, and discover I was actualy one of the first people who joined that site years ago.

My other issue is this: I work 6 days a week and have very free time on my hands, "Working for the government in Communications does that". So I suppose complaining does seem out of hand and again I appologize.
Spending 3 nights on trying to find out which mod to install etc. gets completely tiring when nothing is truly concrete and opinions seem to rule when it comes to "what works with what".
I was hoping that by now there would have been something concrete finished but it seems everytime I come back, more changes than I have time to look at have occured. So again, I'm left to asking what seems to you folks as a stupid question ( what and which order and which file works best?),and in turn being called lazy, etc. even recieving death threats from a member of this board leaves me wondering what in the hell has happened to the people here!

I am far from lazy, I realize how much work goes into this, I appreciate it all! I just want to play the game.
(without having to install BGT: I only want to install--- BP with SoS, TS, TDD, Redemption, FR/RoV, Ease of use& Item upgrade and that is all due to the space available on my hardrive)

Please can someone direct me as to which files are the best for this specific install "above".

Sincerely, Thank You!

[Kulyok]

Spending 3 nights on trying to find out which mod to install etc. gets completely tiring when nothing is truly concrete and opinions seem to rule when it comes to "what works with what".

Try this topic. I personally think that Sim has a point here.

[berelinde]

I work 6 days a week and have very free time on my hands, "Working for the government in Communications does that".

Psst! So does working as a chemist for a large pharmaceutical company, or teaching school while running afterschool programs and possibly coaching teams for children, or being a government programmer, or single-handedly holding down an IT department, or running a web development company. Every single person who has posted on this forum has a schedule just as busy as yours, or worse. We're mostly Type A people, and it is our nature to have busy lives.

Everyone gets 168 hours per week, no more, no less. Our families and friends come first, because there is no substitute for real life human relationships. Then there's our jobs, because no one can mod if they shut off the electricity. And then there is time for our own mental health, because, contrary to popular opinion, it is *not* over rated. And then, if there are any hours left, there is time for hobbies.

[Graoumf]

thanks ronin and chev for the defence, but it's hardly necessary: i'm well aware that v178 is horribly late; i'm equally aware that it will be finished when i've found the time to finish it, or when someone else has beaten me to it and finished it themselves.

And it's good! 'Cause we haven't finished to proofread the french translation...

Anyway, I have a propostion (a french word... I hope it's the same meaning in english ) : I'm going to play to BG1 and 2 in a few days, with some mods as BP, maybe BGT, NeJ2... well actually, do you want I play with a particular configuration ? Which mods ? Because I was thinking to report bugs with save's attachments... as I done for tests of Epic Endeavours.

Edited by Graoumf, 01 April 2007 - 10:44 AM.

[kimmel]

I have altered this post because I wanted to simply say thankyou to all the moders throughout the past many years for their work and effort.
Please disregard the orriginal post. It was out of frustration is all. ( just working very very hard, 1 day off in the past 3 weeks)

Hey--I just wanted to say that this is a classy move on your part, and appreciated, at least, by me. Cheers to all who showed thoughtfulness and restraint in this discussion, as well.

[Bereth Darkides]

All I am looking to install is BP with these mods; Please let me know if I have researched the right files and there compatibilities. Let me know if I got the right ones chosen.

BG2-SoA,
BG2-ToB + Off.Patch
SoS-WeiDU v105.rar
tdd103full.exe +TDD103-to-103A-patch.exe
TSv605.exe
BPv177.rar + BP_s_and_h_Patchv7.zip
--
FR_RoV_WeiDU.rar
Weimer-Ease-v32.exe
Weimer-ItemUpgrade-v32.rar
Redemption-v1.2.exe

Thanks everyone!
Bereth