84 replies to this topic

[Azkyroth]

No, she definitely will not be found in Firkraag's lair!
She will indeed be found early on, and in a place that I don't believe any other Non-Bioware NPC is found. (Don't you just love these vague hints? lol)

Let me guess; a new area?

In creating my own BAMs, I have come to a fork in the road, and so have decided to ask everyone's opinion once again.

Is it a magic fork? *ducks*

How important is it to you to be able to change the gear of an NPC? Does it matter at all (as long as her gear is good enough to support her throughout the game) or does it really irritate you when you try to change gear and get the message "This item cannot be removed"?

I think more than one or two non-removable items will bug a lot of players. I know that would bug me. And no matter how many non-removable items there, are, there should be a good reason for their nonremovability: Minsc and Edwin's protectiveness of Boo and the amulet, respectively, or the bloodline-binding magic on Nalia's and Arkalian's rings. Needless to say, the item should be capable of competing with some of the other offerings that might otherwise be selected to take its place.

PS: I fixed your mismatched quote tags, since the post wouldn't even let me quote them to show you what's wrong. I assume this is all right?

I'm posting this since it might be needed for context on the edit; I'll finish this reply in a moment.

[EDIT]

It's kind of funny how these NPCs take on a life of their own, become your little babies, and you get so tempted to want to give them everything you can before sending them out into the big scary world! lol! (Heh, geuss I am quilty of being an overprotective modder!)

I don't know; maybe a bit early on. *shrugs*

Actually, you know what? this is a very good point.
How does a modder know when to draw the line in as far as banters and interjections go?
For me, I am currently planning 3 banters (5 with one character in particular) with each of Bioware-16, plus interjections, plus conversations with PC, plus PC initiated conversations. When I break it down like this, it sure seems to be one heck of a lot of conversations my NPC is involved in. Would you say this is the norm as far as number of conversations or am I overboard here as well?

You want at least a banter or two per Bioware NPC, and then a reasonable number beyond that where the characters' personalities are such that they would expect to interact frequently, whether positively or negatively.

I would think one interjection per quest would be a desirable minimum, unless the quest is a ridiculously short fed-ex quest. Or unless the quest really has nothing to do with the NPC. And there are some places where interjections are expected, like the Tree of Life, or, for a romanced female, for the Phaere seduction. You're probably going to want somewhere between 50 and 300 interjections.

I'm not sure it's necessarily desirable to have an intersection every quest. The most obvious thing is to look at every interjection you're thinking about writing (other than the "always" ones like the TOL and Phaere thing) and ask "how does this add to the mod?" If you don't have a substantive answer it's probably one to, at best, reevaluate later.

As for NPC/PC dialogue, again, there is nothing carved in stone. For a friendship, I'd want 8-20 talks. For a romance, 15-30.

The "how does it add to the mod" thing is even more important here, I think.

For NPC/NPC banters, mod NPCs typically have 2-5 for SoA and 1-3 for ToB. Having more is never a bad thing ™, because it adds to replayability and accomodates those (like me) that play with a finger poised over CTRL-I.

Embarrassingly that command isn't ringing a bell...

Edited by Azkyroth, 12 March 2007 - 04:57 PM.

[Menelanna]

i guess i would like to see a barbarian. actually what i want to see most is not a class but a race. why are there no half-orc NPCs?

[Minarvia]

i guess i would like to see a barbarian. actually what i want to see most is not a class but a race. why are there no half-orc NPCs?

I think Ariena is a half-orc.  She's at the Mod for the Wicked here at SHS.  But maybe she's an orc, I don't recall for sure.

[Minarvia]

Kindrek took a fair amount of heat because his inventory items couldn't be moved.

I would avoid unmovable items unless they were absolutely plot essential, and even then, I would keep it to one or two. If you want to fill up her inventory with *movable* custom items, usable only by her, that would be your choice, and I don't think anyone could complain, since they can just go ahead and equip something else if they don't like what she has.

I 100% agree.  I HATE more than one, or two at the very most, unremovable items.  That is one reason I ditched Kindrek early on.  All that unremovable stuff irritated me too much.

[Azkyroth]

Kindrek took a fair amount of heat because his inventory items couldn't be moved.

I would avoid unmovable items unless they were absolutely plot essential, and even then, I would keep it to one or two. If you want to fill up her inventory with *movable* custom items, usable only by her, that would be your choice, and I don't think anyone could complain, since they can just go ahead and equip something else if they don't like what she has.

I 100% agree. I HATE more than one, or two at the very most, unremovable items. That is one reason I ditched Kindrek early on. All that unremovable stuff irritated me too much.

A couple more notes:

In addition to keeping it to one or two items at the most, I would suggest keeping the non-removables to peripheral items, like rings, amulets, and belts. With those, you're less likely to have an item you *really* want to replace it with that no one else in the party can use, and the effect is generally less weird storywise (a non-removable leather armor on a romanceable character, for instance, implies some...interesting...things about the relationship O.o Non-removable weapons would be even worse in that regard x.x).

Also, if you make a non-removable item, make sure it doesn't have the "cannot use with other items of the same type" flag. That way, even if you can't equip something in *that* slot that gives a better armor bonus, it won't prevent you from equipping bonus-giving armor anywhere else.

Edited by Azkyroth, 12 March 2007 - 07:08 PM.

[Kellen]

I agree with Azzy(and I hope you don't mind). Quickslots could potentially work too. Though you have to be more careful with them.

Edited by Kael, 12 March 2007 - 09:21 PM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Or shield hand item perhaps for a mage if done correctly. =>

the decision that was made will make her a more complete and fun character to have in your party!

So you are going to give her, her lost hand back. She lost it during a fight vs. chaos mage, in to a foreign plane no one has heard of.

[Azkyroth]

I agree with Azzy(and I hope you don't mind). Quickslots could potentially work too. Though you have to be more careful with them.

Err, why would I? O.o

Or shield hand item perhaps for a mage if done correctly. =>

the decision that was made will make her a more complete and fun character to have in your party!

So you are going to give her, her lost hand back. She lost it during a fight vs. chaos mage, in to a foreign plane no one has heard of.

Err, is this a reference to something I should be aware of?

[Jarno Mikkola]

Maybe I am just talking in riddles, but I would assume that, if you are making more complete char, you wouldn't mind to give her, her hand back.

[Keldon]

WoW! I am really pleased to see that this posting got such good replies last night! Excellent suggestions and help all way around.

In regards to Azzy?s comments:
Although she will be found in an area that already exists, I am currently working on creating a new area where a good portion of her quest will take place ?.and ?.umm?no, lol, it isn?t a magic fork!!
Thank you for your helpful suggestions in regards to non-removable items and number of conversations. I have recently lowered her non-removable items from?umm..5 to 1. The only thing that concerns me about this is that one of the items that is now movable is going to be upgraded just before the ToB portion. I am concerned about the headaches this could possibly cause and therefore will need to decide to either
1) Not upgrade the item
Or
2) Go with 2 non-removable items (one of which being non-peripheral)

This causes me to wonder, how many people are really going to be upset if a weapon is non-removable, but gets upgraded so that it is always helpful? Would this actually cause people to not enjoy this NPC and therefore not play her?

In reference to Menelanna?s desire for a barbarian, Arienna is indeed a female, half-orc barbarian. I haven?t been able to play her yet because of the bugs in the original version, but I certainly am looking forward to playing her in DeathsAngel?s Mod for the Wicked!

In reference to Jarno Mikkola, I am afraid you have me at a disadvantage in that I don?t really have any idea of what you are talking about.

In reference to Kael and Minarvia, thank you very much for your comments.

Peace
Keldon

[Kellen]

I agree with Azzy(and I hope you don't mind). Quickslots could potentially work too. Though you have to be more careful with them.

Err, why would I? O.o

I always check when giving nicknames.


Unremovable weapons kinda depends. My druids and wizards I'd rather definitely not. Afterall as many super mage staves are in the game we need someone to use them. For Druids I like the Staff of the Woodlands and would like to be able to equip her with it. For bards and rogues, I'm fine, Paladin's probably not.(I mean Holy Avenger!) Rangers and Fighters are my use big things person, so the vorpal sword, Ravager and whatever +6 items I find in ToB that can't be used by my other classes. Monks tend to stick to their fist, but if you're putting in Kamas(which they use just as well) then I suppose that's fine as well.

Any class I'm missing(Assuming Barbarians and Sorcerers as same prefs as their counterparts)?

[berelinde]

If you interpret unmovable to mean that the item can never be removed, I really do not want to think about attempting to function with a scimitar or some such permanently glued to your hand. Must make it tough to wash your hair, among other things. And buttoning a shirt could be fatal!

Better to make the item only-usable-by.

[Kellen]

And yes, that's a good plan with BGhead's idea.

[Jarno Mikkola]

In reference to Jarno Mikkola, I am afraid you have me at a disadvantage in that I don?t really have any idea of what you are talking about.

Good things happen when you can see into the future, and body parts are begin to drop. Or so I would say.

Any class I'm missing?

Priests, or Clerics?

If you interpret unmovable to mean that the item can never be removed, I really do not want to think about attempting to function with a scimitar or some such permanently glued to your hand. Must make it tough to wash your hair, among other things. And buttoning a shirt could be fatal!

Better to make the item only-usable-by.

And be exposed to the thief HLA trick, no thank you. Haven't you seen the straps in those weapons so they do not have to be removed from the person, even if if they have to go on with their daily lives with the weapons attached.

[Kellen]

Ah. They use whatever is in there. I'd say I probably wouldn't mind something new. I like to go with lots of Clerics.

[Keldon]

If you interpret unmovable to mean that the item can never be removed, I really do not want to think about attempting to function with a scimitar or some such permanently glued to your hand. Must make it tough to wash your hair, among other things. And buttoning a shirt could be fatal!

Better to make the item only-usable-by.

LOL! Hmm, I am getting to thinking that Kael and Berelinde have good points! It would indeed be very difficult to function through life with a weapon permanently adhered to your hand.

So, in this case, I am in need of some suggestions.
The weapon that my NPC is using is good in BGII but when you enter the ToB portion, they are inherently useless.
If you make this weapon droppable, but good enough for the ToB part, won't people complain that you have created an uber weapon?
If you make the weapon droppable but not powerful enough for the whole game, with the intention of it being upgraded later, arent you running the risk that the PC is going to give her a different weapon and when you do the upgrade, cause him/her to lose a weapon they wanted to hang on to?
Is there a way to code it so that if the PC has changed her weapon, it will be placed in inventory BUT if s/he hasn't then it will simply be upgraded?
If you make the weapon non-droppable to ensure there will be no headaches when it comes time to upgrade, are you then not turning people off from playing your NPC because of the weapon immobility?

I must admit that I am feeling really confused as to what to do here, so if you have any suggestions or opinions please post them.

Thank you
Keldon

[berelinde]

Another thing about items that can't be dropped: if you die they aren't dropped, either. *However,* I think they come back when you are raised. Otherwise, Nalia would lose her ring each and every time, and I know Gavin's kept his ring despite snuffing it repeatedly.

So, I think this only becomes an issue if you want to prevent the player from killing off your NPC just to get the gear.

[Keldon]

Another thing about items that can't be dropped: if you die they aren't dropped, either. *However,* I think they come back when you are raised. Otherwise, Nalia would lose her ring each and every time, and I know Gavin's kept his ring despite snuffing it repeatedly.

So, I think this only becomes an issue if you want to prevent the player from killing off your NPC just to get the gear.

What you have said is accurate. If an item is undroppable, the character will not drop it even when they die, but should they be raised again, they would still have said item.
This is what originally brought me down this item issue road, the concern that someone would just kill off my NPC to get her gear.

Peace
Keldon

[berelinde]

That's when the usability flags are useful. They can try, but it won't do them any good.

[Kellen]

Honestly if you make all her items unremovable you'll annoy the players who wish to equip her with something else.

If you make her items removable, someone will try and use it with their thief, or will sell it, or something. I however would trust the majority of mod players to play right.

That said don't give her too many unique items. You'll soon be hearing cries against that too.

And that said. Story. Trumps. Rules. Every single time in my book.