25 replies to this topic

[Kaeloree]

I've a question for ya'll, brought on by a discussion between Triaxx, Bookwyrme, Minarvia and myself; do you think Cernd accepts his Lycanthropy?

I'm not interested in what it says in the game.

Do you think Cernd, as a character, would accept his Lycanthropy as part of him? Lycanthropy is a curse; it is an unnatural thing.

I'm of the opinion that he would be somewhat conflicted about his Lycanthropy. On one side, he is a calm, rational man who is rather sweet and caring. On the other, you have a ravenous wolf who is is almost completely uncontrollable, dangerous and deadly.


So - what do you guys think? You can sway my opinion. I'm interested to see what you all have to say, and what you think.

And, of course, general discussion about Cernd's character.

[Pixel Kaiser]

Nothing about Cernd strikes me as the kind of guy who would allow himself to be a Lycanthrope for the sake of combat prowess. That's the only reason I'd think someone would want to become one, though. I don't suppose he particularly enjoys it, but then why would he allow himself to become one? Maybe it was forced on him? If that's the case, I'd hate it, too!

I honestly think they gave him a random kit without thinking about the character; though that says nothing about Cernd's character and is of no help to you.

[Anomaly]

I honestly think they gave him a random kit without thinking about the character; though that says nothing about Cernd's character and is of no help to you.

I totally agree with you. And there is no standard banters dealing with Cernd's lycanthropy. Being affected with lycanthropy is quite remarkable nevertheless, and should have been a subject to comments *if* they really meant to give to Cernd that kit, on which I have some serious doubts.

[berelinde]

Cernd is a shapeshifter, but I don't think he's really a lycanthrope, as in his race doesn't say "werewolf" and he is not compelled to change at any point. Also, he retains control over his behavior and does take on the alignment or mind of a werewolf. He just gets a nifty new shape.

But that in itself is kind of pointless. He drops everything when he uses it, so where's the bonus in it?

I'd prefer the option to change him to a regular druid. He doesn't need a gimick.

[Lord Ernie]

I concur. Cernd's kit is the one that makes the least overall sense in the entire game. It feels like a showcase of "How a druid with poor stats can be a killing machine". It doesn't fit his character, at all, and is never even mentioned in-game; worse, he's supposedly on some sort of respected position among the druids (as his dialogues with Jaheira and the Trademeet quest confirm), something I would not combine with a lyantrophic curse, controlled or no.

[MorningGlory]

As BGhead said, in game and with little or no explanation to refute or explain it, Cernd is a high-ranking druid with a gimmick. That has to have some subjective effect on the player in game, and quest aside, having this cardboard characterization may be why no one gives a rip about him very much. (That, and many think he automatically casts a lethal spell of boredom on the party. )

I always thought that his devotion to his ?work? was responsible because of his 'curse.' That is, he could be so conflicted by it as to overcompensate by abandoning his normal life and devoting his talents and energies to something that he felt redeemed him. I always envisioned him as being of noble birth (because of his forbearance and the leadership-type position he seems to command among the druids) and the shapeshifting thing being a family curse/genetics thing. I could easily see a conversation between Jaheira and him that would hint at this, or a similar backstory. That may sound gimmicky, too, but we?re sort of stuck with a druid with a gimmick (unless somehow you overhaul him), and to make the game?s scenario work, we may be stuck.

The short of it is, imho, as follows.. (1) Do you want to make him a sympathetic character? That his ?curse? was not of his own making and he?s trying to make the best of it, despite his ?inner turmoil.? (2) Do you want to make him non-sympathetic neutral? He had a ?lab accident? while in first year of Druid University. (3) Do you want to bring a dark edge to the Druid ? perhaps hint that he embraced this willingly so that he could gain a better understanding of the domain over which he stands guard? Then, it could be a self-inflicted condition. With the latter, however, you would have to give him sound reason for such a grave decision, as I can?t imagine pragmatic Cernd just awaking one morning to say, ?Hey.. Think I?ll become a shapeshifter today..?

[Raven_Song]

My Cernd is proving a very popular topic of converstation at the moment ... although at least this one proves more Cernd friendly.

Do you think Cernd, as a character, would accept his Lycanthropy as part of him? Lycanthropy is a curse; it is an unnatural thing.

Does the lycanthropy necessarily have to be a curse ... isn't Selune worshipped by a number of good lycanthorpe's, who not only accept but embrace their lycanthropy.

I vaguely remember some discussions at G3 suggesting the possibility of Cernd worshipping Selune, but I'm not sure how big the Moon Maiden is in druidic circles, or how well this would fit in with the character concept.

A suggestion was made by NiGHTMARE, that rather than become a CE werewolf Cernd become a TN wereboar or weretiger (his facial markings and eyes seem to fit well in with the tiger).

It might be something to consider.

[MorningGlory]

Anyway, I would like to see Cernd act wise and confident even when it comes to the subject of his... more fuzzy side. One of the reasons I dislike the Tsujatha mod is the way they made him just go UH, DURR when questioned about it.

(Did you intentionally forget the "warm" part of "warm and fuzzy side?" Or, was that an observation by omission. )

I like your take on the character, A.N. -- pretty solid on how he is, and how he gets there. (Er.. go register.. )

Edit: typos

Edited by MorningGlory, 04 January 2007 - 07:22 AM.

[berelinde]

Maybe by "fuzzy side," he means his side with fuzz, or fur, to be more specific.

[MorningGlory]

Maybe by "fuzzy side," he means his side with fuzz, or fur, to be more specific.

I knew that.. LOL I was just furthering his pun..

[vilkacis]

Fine, fine, just stop PESTERING me! [/Edwin]

*no longer anonymous*


And all this talk about a warm and fuzzy Cernd is giving me the weirdest mental images about the party using him as a spare blanket or pillow.


*ahem* Well, anyway. I think Cernd is fine being a wolf, even if most werewolves are evil. Having a nonstandard alignment adds RP potential, after all. (Unless you also happen to be a dualwielding dark elf ranger, in which case it just means you need to be shot. )

The idea of changing his werecreature type is interesting, even if I don't see the necessity. I don't think BG has anything that looks like a human-tiger hybrid though, so before something like that could be considered, you'd have to find or make a new sprite for him.

[Kaeloree]

We won't be changing his were form - he will be staying a werewolf. Sorry guys I *would* like to stay true to Bioware in some ways.

Some very interesting ideas here - keep them coming!

[vilkacis]

Only *some* ways?

I have some vague ideas, but they may already have been covered in the unmodded game or banter packs - might be of more help in a week or two, when I can get back to the computer where I have BG2 installed.

[Azkyroth]

Only *some* ways?

Perhaps they mean that the expanded Cernd will *have* a personality *without* rounding up.

As for the lycanthropy, I would think that Cernd's adoption of a shapeshifter form would be more likely to have been driven by a desire to become more at home in the natural world, and defend it using its own strengths. While lycanthropy is an "unnatural" condition by most standards, the werewolf form seems rather more "primal." It is a creature which is able to survive by its own physical abilities and instincts, without relying on technology (like animals and unlike humanoids), is able to further the cause of nature in a manner more like that of other animals, and is emphatically unfettered by, and independent of, "civilization", which Cernd has so little fondness for. I can easily see someone with Cernd's perspective regarding his lycanthropy as a way of becoming closer to nature, even by a conduit conventionally regarded as "unnatural." (Perhaps a bit like White Wolf's idea of werewolves...)

[Magnus_025]

I think that Cernd took the decision of becoming a werewolf because he is a weak man (phisically weak) and wanted to defend nature with his own hands. He totally accepts his lycantropy (in my opinion), but its true that in the original game there isn't any dialogs regarding this issue. I thought that at least one conversation with Jaheira, Minsc, Valygar or the Pc should have been about that.
I like Cernd, he is fun to play and is one of the fewer that accept you being a Bhaalspawn without trembling. He offers you his friendship.
I would like him to be expanded, and please at least change his pathethic epilogue, which is by far the worst one. All his efforts to become an archidruid, and finishing the adventure as one of the most powerful druids in the realms (if Level 40 is the max a druid can reach, if not it doesn't matter because he can reach the max level) to end like that. I don't like it at all.

Edited by Magnus_025, 06 January 2007 - 07:41 AM.

[Pixel Kaiser]

I really liked his epilogue. Sure, it's a bit odd for that to end such a powerful being, but it was still very epic. A battle between father and son? Nothing more epic than that!