We're giving away lots of spoilers in this thread... Oh well!
I *think* that RA's will be able to attack your invisib chars if they see them visible first. I don't know of any other foe that does that, and I'm not sure that RAs still do (they did in Classic MegaInstall).
Rune Assassins
Started by ronin, Dec 28 2006 01:37 PM
57 replies to this topic
#22
Azazello
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Posted 31 December 2006 - 06:01 AM
So you wanna kick ass against a powerful group of opponents, and you don't want to cheese, cheat or powergame your way to victory?
There is a way, young padawan, that does not involve the casting of any spells, no need for innates (although thieves' Detect Illusion may be vital), uses equipment from a vanilla install, actively uses only 2-3 of a 6-person party (the other members play a vital part), and can possibly be done with even low-level party.
I've not seen this "secret" written on 3 forums, although I think I got the idea from a discussion of one of the mods of the King of Anti-Cheese, blucher.
THE MOTHER OF ALL SPOILERS
(Only works if opponents don't cheat by seeing thru invisibility)
Philosophy:
As with the practicing of any sage advice, to perform this effort demands patience. If you're not willing to go the slow-&-steady approach, skip the remainder of this post.
Also, I'm explaining this textually when ideally should be presented visually. I'll attach a bitmap later if people wish.
Once you practice this method, you'll be using it everywhere you can. I like it because it helps prevent damage to my fragile little sprites; but I don't like it because it takes advantage of the limitations of AI no matter how good the scripting is. C'est la vie.
Equipment Needed:
- as many potions of invisib that you can get your hands on. Horde them as if precious (which they should be). You'll be using several of the potions, so using rings won't help much.
As you move thru the earlier parts of a game, do not use the potions unless absolutely necessary, because you are saving them for encounters like this.
- some type of missile weapon for at least one of your party. Does not need to be magical although preferably an endless ammo type weapon.
- optional, if your opponents also use missile weapons, then be sure to use slings, throwing axes or darts with the Shield of Reflection from Ribald - the one that reflects missile attacks
Strategy:
- When first seeing a powerful group of foes, have everyone STOP (autopause is your friend), turn off AI, everyone quaff a invisib potion or go invisib.
You MUST do this, as some opponents will lock onto characters that they see, some even following and attacking even if the character then becomes invisib. I think Rune Assassins (used to) do that.
- Whatever map you're on, look for a location where you can form a barrier using one or two characters, thus keeping the rest of the party on one side and the opponents on the other. I've yet to find a map where this cannot be done. More on the "box barrier" below.
- Move the party - EXCEPT THE PC - towards this location. Put the 1-2 most inactive characters - the ones that will will merely act as barrier - in place. Move the other ones onto the safe side of the barrier. More on the "box barrier" below.
- Now, move the PC towards the barrier but don't go behind it yet. Did you hear or see opponents following the PC? (With Rune Assassins, or any other invisib creatures, you should be able to hear their footsteps.) If so, very good. Just keep the PC outside the barrier for now. Most likely, invisib opponents are clustering around him/her. Good.
- Now, your other chars need to form a "box" barrier - 1-2 chars on one side, the map's blocked areas on two sides, and the PC and/or one more char for the final side. To best explain this, let's use a real example.
On the Docks District map, look for the Temple of Oghma. Looking a short distance to the southeast, there is a path along a wall which snakes back to the East. To begin creating a box barrier here, put 1 Inactive char to block the very front part of this path. This is the Side 1 of the box. The wall and the "edge" of the path are Sides 2 and 3.
Follow the path to the East. Notice it stays a one-person width path, then widens. Put another Inactive char along the wall, just before it widens. Notice that actually two chars can stand side-by-side here; that's exactly what will be done with the PC. This will be Side 4.
Against invisib foes, this char should probably have Detect Illusion, either that or the PC.
Put one of the Active chars somewhere between the two Inactive chars - within the box, if you can think of it that way - but close to the eastern side Inactive char. This "in-box" char is the Sneaky Attacker. I use my best thief for this position, but against Rune Assassins I think you should use best fighter because I think the RA's are immune to backstabbing.
We need one other Active char - s/he will be to the east of the eastern most Inactive char - and thus outside the box, but on a safe side. This char is Bait!
If there are any other chars left, just put them all the way to the East, out of harms way.
So, in this example, we have a long sort-of rectangular box which is not yet completely closed. We're using two Inactive barrier chars, the PC will be part of the eastside barrier, a Sneaky Attacker, and Bait!
Now to the fun. The goal is this:
- the western Inactive char will allow an opening into the box
- the PC will go into the box and stand next to the eastern Inactive char
- allow only ONE opponent into the box - when this occurs, the western char closes the box!
- if you can see the opponent, then the Sneaky Attacker "herds" the foe towards the eastern side of the box, preventing if possible the foe from going back west, pushing the foe right against the eastern boxside; if you cannot see the foe, don't worry: the foe will eventually see the Bait! and will try to attack him/her. Good!
Attacking:
For an opponent you can see:
- have Bait attack the foe, thus becoming visible, while staying on the safe side of the box. Bait should attack with missile weapon. If the foe also uses missile weapons, be sure Bait can use the Shield of Reflection.
- the foe will concentrate on Bait. Wait until foe is softened up - either to status Injured or Badly Wounded - then attack with Sneaky Attacker, preferably with backstab.
- if your two attackers can do it right, the foe goes down without too much effort, Sneaky Attacker drinks an invisib potion, Bait moves to the East, out of sight until the next opponent is let into the box. Bait does not need a potion, because s/he will always stay on the safe side of the box.
- the PC will have to go outside the box again to lure in more opponents. Do not "open" the box on the westside to let in a new foe. Instead, have the PC "push thru" the westside (this will push westside char out of place, then back into place, very quickly. Do it once, and you'll see what I mean), and go back towards the foes. This prevents sneaky thieves from slipping into your zone before you have every char in their proper place
- lather, rinse, repeat procedure for all other opponents
For an opponent you cannot see:
- have Bait become visible by "talking" to the Inactive east boxside char. But then quickly move Bait a little bit to the east. The reason for this is if Bait is to close to the boxside, a RA or thief will be able to backstab him/her.
- The foe will see Bait and start attacking. Bait should attack with missile weapon. If the foe also uses missile weapons, be sure the Bait can use the Shield of Reflection.
- really good thieves AI will make the foes go invisible again. Still, now that they see Bait, they will keep trying to backstab him/her.
This is a tricky part. If your chars that are close to the thief-foe have Detect Illusion, have them turn it on. Even if they are low-level chars, eventually the thief will go visible. Once this happens, Bait will/should attack.
BTW using darts of poison or holding work wonders. If held, the thief cannot go invisible - if this happens, attack with gusto!
- the foe will concentrate on Bait. Wait until foe is softened up - either to status Injured or Badly Wounded - then attack with Sneaky Attacker, preferably with backstab. If the thief goes invisib again, then immediately have Sneaky Attacker drink a potion. Hopefully, the thief will continue to concentrate on Bait.
- if your two attackers can do it right, the foe goes down without too much effort, Sneaky Attacker drinks an invisib potion, Bait moves to the East, out of sight until the next opponent is let into the box. Bait does not need a potion, because s/he will always stay on the safe side of the box.
- the PC will have to go outside the box again to lure in more opponents. Do not "open" the box on the westside to let in a new foe. Instead, have the PC "push thru" the westside (this will push westside char out of place, then back into place, very quickly. Do it once, and you'll see what I mean), and go back towards the foes. This prevents sneaky thieves from slipping into your zone before you have every char in their proper place
- lather, rinse, repeat procedure for all other opponents
Victory:
- after each kill, just leave the loot on the ground, unless you need healing or invisib potions, if any. Defeat all foes before searching the loot. This is just to save time.
Final Notes:
- If you think about, this technique is probably why the Staff of the Magi was made for the game.
- I have noticed that some thieves do not go visible with True Sight or other divination spells. I think this is a quirk of my install, but if you experience it too, maybe we should have the bug investigated. Even so, with my method above, no real divination spells are needed.
ronin, try this then let us know if this technique works.
There is a way, young padawan, that does not involve the casting of any spells, no need for innates (although thieves' Detect Illusion may be vital), uses equipment from a vanilla install, actively uses only 2-3 of a 6-person party (the other members play a vital part), and can possibly be done with even low-level party.
I've not seen this "secret" written on 3 forums, although I think I got the idea from a discussion of one of the mods of the King of Anti-Cheese, blucher.
THE MOTHER OF ALL SPOILERS
(Only works if opponents don't cheat by seeing thru invisibility)
Philosophy:
As with the practicing of any sage advice, to perform this effort demands patience. If you're not willing to go the slow-&-steady approach, skip the remainder of this post.
Also, I'm explaining this textually when ideally should be presented visually. I'll attach a bitmap later if people wish.
Once you practice this method, you'll be using it everywhere you can. I like it because it helps prevent damage to my fragile little sprites; but I don't like it because it takes advantage of the limitations of AI no matter how good the scripting is. C'est la vie.
Equipment Needed:
- as many potions of invisib that you can get your hands on. Horde them as if precious (which they should be). You'll be using several of the potions, so using rings won't help much.
As you move thru the earlier parts of a game, do not use the potions unless absolutely necessary, because you are saving them for encounters like this.
- some type of missile weapon for at least one of your party. Does not need to be magical although preferably an endless ammo type weapon.
- optional, if your opponents also use missile weapons, then be sure to use slings, throwing axes or darts with the Shield of Reflection from Ribald - the one that reflects missile attacks
Strategy:
- When first seeing a powerful group of foes, have everyone STOP (autopause is your friend), turn off AI, everyone quaff a invisib potion or go invisib.
You MUST do this, as some opponents will lock onto characters that they see, some even following and attacking even if the character then becomes invisib. I think Rune Assassins (used to) do that.
- Whatever map you're on, look for a location where you can form a barrier using one or two characters, thus keeping the rest of the party on one side and the opponents on the other. I've yet to find a map where this cannot be done. More on the "box barrier" below.
- Move the party - EXCEPT THE PC - towards this location. Put the 1-2 most inactive characters - the ones that will will merely act as barrier - in place. Move the other ones onto the safe side of the barrier. More on the "box barrier" below.
- Now, move the PC towards the barrier but don't go behind it yet. Did you hear or see opponents following the PC? (With Rune Assassins, or any other invisib creatures, you should be able to hear their footsteps.) If so, very good. Just keep the PC outside the barrier for now. Most likely, invisib opponents are clustering around him/her. Good.
- Now, your other chars need to form a "box" barrier - 1-2 chars on one side, the map's blocked areas on two sides, and the PC and/or one more char for the final side. To best explain this, let's use a real example.
On the Docks District map, look for the Temple of Oghma. Looking a short distance to the southeast, there is a path along a wall which snakes back to the East. To begin creating a box barrier here, put 1 Inactive char to block the very front part of this path. This is the Side 1 of the box. The wall and the "edge" of the path are Sides 2 and 3.
Follow the path to the East. Notice it stays a one-person width path, then widens. Put another Inactive char along the wall, just before it widens. Notice that actually two chars can stand side-by-side here; that's exactly what will be done with the PC. This will be Side 4.
Against invisib foes, this char should probably have Detect Illusion, either that or the PC.
Put one of the Active chars somewhere between the two Inactive chars - within the box, if you can think of it that way - but close to the eastern side Inactive char. This "in-box" char is the Sneaky Attacker. I use my best thief for this position, but against Rune Assassins I think you should use best fighter because I think the RA's are immune to backstabbing.
We need one other Active char - s/he will be to the east of the eastern most Inactive char - and thus outside the box, but on a safe side. This char is Bait!
If there are any other chars left, just put them all the way to the East, out of harms way.
So, in this example, we have a long sort-of rectangular box which is not yet completely closed. We're using two Inactive barrier chars, the PC will be part of the eastside barrier, a Sneaky Attacker, and Bait!
Now to the fun. The goal is this:
- the western Inactive char will allow an opening into the box
- the PC will go into the box and stand next to the eastern Inactive char
- allow only ONE opponent into the box - when this occurs, the western char closes the box!
- if you can see the opponent, then the Sneaky Attacker "herds" the foe towards the eastern side of the box, preventing if possible the foe from going back west, pushing the foe right against the eastern boxside; if you cannot see the foe, don't worry: the foe will eventually see the Bait! and will try to attack him/her. Good!
Attacking:
For an opponent you can see:
- have Bait attack the foe, thus becoming visible, while staying on the safe side of the box. Bait should attack with missile weapon. If the foe also uses missile weapons, be sure Bait can use the Shield of Reflection.
- the foe will concentrate on Bait. Wait until foe is softened up - either to status Injured or Badly Wounded - then attack with Sneaky Attacker, preferably with backstab.
- if your two attackers can do it right, the foe goes down without too much effort, Sneaky Attacker drinks an invisib potion, Bait moves to the East, out of sight until the next opponent is let into the box. Bait does not need a potion, because s/he will always stay on the safe side of the box.
- the PC will have to go outside the box again to lure in more opponents. Do not "open" the box on the westside to let in a new foe. Instead, have the PC "push thru" the westside (this will push westside char out of place, then back into place, very quickly. Do it once, and you'll see what I mean), and go back towards the foes. This prevents sneaky thieves from slipping into your zone before you have every char in their proper place
- lather, rinse, repeat procedure for all other opponents
For an opponent you cannot see:
- have Bait become visible by "talking" to the Inactive east boxside char. But then quickly move Bait a little bit to the east. The reason for this is if Bait is to close to the boxside, a RA or thief will be able to backstab him/her.
- The foe will see Bait and start attacking. Bait should attack with missile weapon. If the foe also uses missile weapons, be sure the Bait can use the Shield of Reflection.
- really good thieves AI will make the foes go invisible again. Still, now that they see Bait, they will keep trying to backstab him/her.
This is a tricky part. If your chars that are close to the thief-foe have Detect Illusion, have them turn it on. Even if they are low-level chars, eventually the thief will go visible. Once this happens, Bait will/should attack.
BTW using darts of poison or holding work wonders. If held, the thief cannot go invisible - if this happens, attack with gusto!
- the foe will concentrate on Bait. Wait until foe is softened up - either to status Injured or Badly Wounded - then attack with Sneaky Attacker, preferably with backstab. If the thief goes invisib again, then immediately have Sneaky Attacker drink a potion. Hopefully, the thief will continue to concentrate on Bait.
- if your two attackers can do it right, the foe goes down without too much effort, Sneaky Attacker drinks an invisib potion, Bait moves to the East, out of sight until the next opponent is let into the box. Bait does not need a potion, because s/he will always stay on the safe side of the box.
- the PC will have to go outside the box again to lure in more opponents. Do not "open" the box on the westside to let in a new foe. Instead, have the PC "push thru" the westside (this will push westside char out of place, then back into place, very quickly. Do it once, and you'll see what I mean), and go back towards the foes. This prevents sneaky thieves from slipping into your zone before you have every char in their proper place
- lather, rinse, repeat procedure for all other opponents
Victory:
- after each kill, just leave the loot on the ground, unless you need healing or invisib potions, if any. Defeat all foes before searching the loot. This is just to save time.
Final Notes:
- If you think about, this technique is probably why the Staff of the Magi was made for the game.
- I have noticed that some thieves do not go visible with True Sight or other divination spells. I think this is a quirk of my install, but if you experience it too, maybe we should have the bug investigated. Even so, with my method above, no real divination spells are needed.
ronin, try this then let us know if this technique works.
#23
ronin
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Posted 31 December 2006 - 06:23 AM
I have noticed that some thieves do not go visible with True Sight or other divination spells. I think this is a quirk of my install, but if you experience it too, maybe we should have the bug investigated. Even so, with my method above, no real divination spells are needed.
ronin, try this then let us know if this technique works.
Awesome write up. I will give it a try and see, right now I am in the five flaggons so I need to find someway to get around to the temple area. When the RA's go invisible true sight and detect invisibility does not work in my game either, I have to wait for them to become visible again before I can see or attack them and by then one of my char's is chunked.
ronin
#24
GeN1e
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A very GAR character
Posted 31 December 2006 - 07:30 AM
Azazello, are you trying to say that your tactic is NOT cheating? It's even worse abusement over AI than bombarding dragons and liches with traps or letting them to choke down in cloudkills which you're throwing from out of their sight. I'm not saying that such tactic is bad - I used similar method several times before, but to call it as non-cheesing/cheating/powergaming is wrong.and you don't want to cheese, cheat or powergame your way to victory?
Retired from modding.
#25
ronin
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Posted 31 December 2006 - 07:50 AM
So, I just tried again. Amber gulped a potion of invisibility. AI was off and when she got near a RA he chunked her quicker than shit while she was invisible and not attacking.
Back to the drawing board, I am determined to win this fight with no cheese. reload #100
ronin
Back to the drawing board, I am determined to win this fight with no cheese. reload #100
ronin
#26
seanas
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- Modder
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- 1906 posts
Posted 31 December 2006 - 10:04 AM
as Sim has pointed out on numerous occasions, one person's cheesing is another person's legitimate tactic. there are a number of anti-invisibility routines in BP, all explicitly present as anti-cheese devices: it's far too easy to defeat even the most complex script by not being visible.
the anti-invisibility routines take different forms: some creartures cast True Sight, some go thru the whole 'where are they, i can't see them' routine, and some make use of innate abilities. the Rune Assassins are in the latter group - they're high-level thieves after all, so they've got access to Detect Illusion. whether they're actually using Detect Illusion (as some of the muggers who appear as random encounters do); whether they're taking advantage of some of the advanced Detect() triggers that Horred and Camdawg created (which essentially means they're detecting the fact that yr not moving silently, which is devious but legitimate); or whether they're a Horred-surprise (ie, ignoring Detect() routines entirely; ie cheating) i don't actually know off the top of my head. most of the Horred-surprises only appear on Insane difficulty tho - which is the whole point...
that encounter is supposed to be difficult: yr fucking with a serious and well-equipped organisation, after all - but if they're simply ignoring invisibility there might be an argument for making them use Detect Illusion or True Sight, if a: this is the case; and b: we've got consensus that the encounter should be softened.
the anti-invisibility routines take different forms: some creartures cast True Sight, some go thru the whole 'where are they, i can't see them' routine, and some make use of innate abilities. the Rune Assassins are in the latter group - they're high-level thieves after all, so they've got access to Detect Illusion. whether they're actually using Detect Illusion (as some of the muggers who appear as random encounters do); whether they're taking advantage of some of the advanced Detect() triggers that Horred and Camdawg created (which essentially means they're detecting the fact that yr not moving silently, which is devious but legitimate); or whether they're a Horred-surprise (ie, ignoring Detect() routines entirely; ie cheating) i don't actually know off the top of my head. most of the Horred-surprises only appear on Insane difficulty tho - which is the whole point...
that encounter is supposed to be difficult: yr fucking with a serious and well-equipped organisation, after all - but if they're simply ignoring invisibility there might be an argument for making them use Detect Illusion or True Sight, if a: this is the case; and b: we've got consensus that the encounter should be softened.
Edited by seanas, 31 December 2006 - 10:04 AM.
"A simple test of the relative merits of science and religion is to compare lighting your house at night by prayer or electricity" - A. C. Grayling
"EFF files have saves, too." - CamDawg
|| this is radio seanas || BP Series v3 || seanas at work ||
#27
ronin
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- 2114 posts
Posted 31 December 2006 - 10:17 AM
I dont think the encounter should be softened at all, I think that their AI needs to be looked at because a invisible/hiding in shadows theif shouldnt be detected so easy. That is if they are using the bypass Detect(), if not then ok they are just very good thieves/assassins.
BTW, I finally beat them with the above posted party, only Amber got killed this time (not chunked) and because the RA's all drop +3 backstabbing shortswords and +2 studded leather, I had enough to resurrect her at the tempel. Tactic used was: move forward slowly and try to take on as few as possible and hope no one got chunked. Kivan's spear of entanglement helped out alot in the battle cause I guess they cant gulp potions while entangled.
Hmmm.... I never remember having such a hard time with them as I had this run thru.
ronin
BTW, I finally beat them with the above posted party, only Amber got killed this time (not chunked) and because the RA's all drop +3 backstabbing shortswords and +2 studded leather, I had enough to resurrect her at the tempel. Tactic used was: move forward slowly and try to take on as few as possible and hope no one got chunked. Kivan's spear of entanglement helped out alot in the battle cause I guess they cant gulp potions while entangled.
Hmmm.... I never remember having such a hard time with them as I had this run thru.
ronin
#28
Azazello
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The Anti-Spammer
Posted 02 January 2007 - 07:24 AM
Perhaps I should have wrote that this method is as much non-cheesing/not cheating/not powergaming/ as the game allows. I disagree that it is similar to laying traps or offscreen cloudkills (which don't work with Tactics, and shouldn't work with BP) and other such goodies, because it doesn't use any cheats and it doesn't require meta-gaming, i.e. you don't need to know of the opponents beforehand. I did say it abuses AI, didn't I?
I know nothing about Rune Assassin lore, but to me it's just wrong that they can stay hidden - without a cloak of non-detection - AND see thru invisib. without using Detect Illusion. I don't think any other foe does that. Who wrote their AI? I wonder if they would 'see' thru my "Improved" Cloak of Non-Detection...
BTW in a non-megainstall game I have two thieves in my party that have Det.Ill. over 100%. Using this, they still cannot 100% detect invisib. So is this a bug/quirk of the ability, or is the AI scripting fudging the foes' invisibility strength?
I know nothing about Rune Assassin lore, but to me it's just wrong that they can stay hidden - without a cloak of non-detection - AND see thru invisib. without using Detect Illusion. I don't think any other foe does that. Who wrote their AI? I wonder if they would 'see' thru my "Improved" Cloak of Non-Detection...
BTW in a non-megainstall game I have two thieves in my party that have Det.Ill. over 100%. Using this, they still cannot 100% detect invisib. So is this a bug/quirk of the ability, or is the AI scripting fudging the foes' invisibility strength?
#29
ronin
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Posted 02 January 2007 - 11:11 AM
They are TANTF01.cre's
they use as override script: USEITM.bcs
default script is: bpwtsigt.bcs
and they have an effect 193 (invisible detection by script)
according to the ar0500.bcs there is only supposed to be two RA's and 3 thugs (unless using easy difficulty) but I usually get 4 rune assassins. It could be that Sim added a couple with the random encounters.
ronin
they use as override script: USEITM.bcs
default script is: bpwtsigt.bcs
and they have an effect 193 (invisible detection by script)
according to the ar0500.bcs there is only supposed to be two RA's and 3 thugs (unless using easy difficulty) but I usually get 4 rune assassins. It could be that Sim added a couple with the random encounters.
ronin
Edited by ronin69hof, 02 January 2007 - 11:15 AM.
#30
seanas
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Posted 02 January 2007 - 02:46 PM
there're two blocks calling the Rune Assassins in AR0500.bcs:
so you'll get four assassins unless yr playing on Easy (and none at all if you play on Easiest).
USEITEM.bcs controls their invisibility potion quaffing - and because it's the override script, they'll prioritise their potion quaffing (which is why they go invisible as soo as they see you).
BPWTSIGT.bcs has no detect invisibility routines - it's a fairly generic script, the only parts of which the Rune Assassins would use would be the generic combat and shout routines.
so the suspect is the effect 193: Detect Invisibility by script. i have to admit i don't know what script it is identifying by (it's not USEITEM.bcs or BPWTSIGT.bcs). i'd be curious to know what TANTHF01.cre uses in a vanilla BG2 game: if they have the same effect, and if it has a listed Resource (there's none listed in TANTHF01.cre for effect 193) - whether this is an error, or the way it is in the original game, only someone with a vanilla install could say.
if it's an error - if Horred left off a Resource for effect 193 to reference - then it's simple to correct; if it's an addition by Horred (ie the TANTHF01.cre has no such effect) then we can remove it safely - but if it's in the original game then we might have an issue: if it was removed we'd be looking at the first time BP has been made easier than the original game...
IF
Global("TannerMove","GLOBAL",1)
Global("AlreadySpawned","Ar0500",0)
!Difficulty(EASIEST)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("AlreadySpawned","Ar0500",1)
CreateCreature("TanTugn1",[2617.2252],1) // ~Thug~
CreateCreature("TanTugn1",[2611.2242],1) // ~Thug~
CreateCreature("TanTugn1",[2447.2322],0) // ~Thug~
CreateCreature("TanThf01",[2031.2352],1) // ~Rune Assassin~
CreateCreature("TanThf01",[2948.2452],1) // ~Rune Assassin~
END
IF
Global("AlreadySpawned","AR0500",1)
!Difficulty(EASIEST)
!Difficulty(EASY)
THEN
RESPONSE #100
SetGlobal("AlreadySpawned","AR0500",2)
CreateCreature("TanThf01",[2409.2312],1) // ~Rune Assassin~
CreateCreature("TanThf01",[2612.2232],1) // ~Rune Assassin~
ENDso you'll get four assassins unless yr playing on Easy (and none at all if you play on Easiest).
USEITEM.bcs controls their invisibility potion quaffing - and because it's the override script, they'll prioritise their potion quaffing (which is why they go invisible as soo as they see you).
BPWTSIGT.bcs has no detect invisibility routines - it's a fairly generic script, the only parts of which the Rune Assassins would use would be the generic combat and shout routines.
so the suspect is the effect 193: Detect Invisibility by script. i have to admit i don't know what script it is identifying by (it's not USEITEM.bcs or BPWTSIGT.bcs). i'd be curious to know what TANTHF01.cre uses in a vanilla BG2 game: if they have the same effect, and if it has a listed Resource (there's none listed in TANTHF01.cre for effect 193) - whether this is an error, or the way it is in the original game, only someone with a vanilla install could say.
if it's an error - if Horred left off a Resource for effect 193 to reference - then it's simple to correct; if it's an addition by Horred (ie the TANTHF01.cre has no such effect) then we can remove it safely - but if it's in the original game then we might have an issue: if it was removed we'd be looking at the first time BP has been made easier than the original game...
"A simple test of the relative merits of science and religion is to compare lighting your house at night by prayer or electricity" - A. C. Grayling
"EFF files have saves, too." - CamDawg
|| this is radio seanas || BP Series v3 || seanas at work ||
#31
pro5
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Posted 02 January 2007 - 05:48 PM
TANTHF01 have this effect in unmodded game.
IESDP:
It doesn't need any additional resource info to work.
IESDP:
#193 (0xc1) Spell Effect: Invisible Detection by Script [193] Parameter #1: Irrelevant Parameter #2: Constant Value Description: Allows invisible creatures to be attacked (via scripts). The Constant Value parameter should be set to 1 or 2.
It doesn't need any additional resource info to work.
#32
coralzombie
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Posted 04 January 2007 - 05:15 PM
my favorite rune assasins glitch was when i walked into the tanners house and all my char's got gacked before i could even click on the exit. then my hard disk went and smoke came out of my tower. IMO the rune assasins are an evil creation put in the game by a heartless bastard!!
i remember those good old days when we all sat in my basement smoking cigars drinking koolaid and playing ad&d with our stubby pencils.
rest in peace E.D
#33
seanas
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- Modder
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Posted 05 January 2007 - 01:35 AM
TANTHF01 have this effect in unmodded game.
IESDP:#193 (0xc1) Spell Effect: Invisible Detection by Script [193] Parameter #1: Irrelevant Parameter #2: Constant Value Description: Allows invisible creatures to be attacked (via scripts). The Constant Value parameter should be set to 1 or 2.
It doesn't need any additional resource info to work.
cheers for that, pro5. in that case, i don't see any need to change anything: the rune assassins are just tough bastards.
"A simple test of the relative merits of science and religion is to compare lighting your house at night by prayer or electricity" - A. C. Grayling
"EFF files have saves, too." - CamDawg
|| this is radio seanas || BP Series v3 || seanas at work ||
#34
ronin
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Posted 05 January 2007 - 03:33 AM
cheers for that, pro5. in that case, i don't see any need to change anything: the rune assassins are just tough bastards.
agreed
ronin
#35
irheat
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- Member
- 47 posts
Posted 07 February 2007 - 08:37 AM
I encounter a endless rune assassins problem here. I am traveling between area and get this encounter with 1 mage + 2 rune assassins, whenever I hit one of the rune assassins, there will be one more rune assassin dimension door in, the more you hit, the more rune assassin appear, I once have a full screen of rune assassin.
The only way out is to quickly walk away when you see this combination of encounter. the rune assassin can see through invisible and attack through stone skin, so that is the only way for me to avoid death.
The only way out is to quickly walk away when you see this combination of encounter. the rune assassin can see through invisible and attack through stone skin, so that is the only way for me to avoid death.
#36
Azazello
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The Anti-Spammer
Posted 07 February 2007 - 09:40 PM
This is news to me. If they really can hit thru Stoneskin, I'm tweakin' 'em....the rune assassin can ...attack through stone skin...
Who can confirm?
#37
seanas
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Posted 08 February 2007 - 05:59 AM
This is news to me. If they really can hit thru Stoneskin, I'm tweakin' 'em....the rune assassin can ...attack through stone skin...
Who can confirm?
i can refute: they certainly can't hit thru stoneskin (i had in-game evidence of this last week, when Aerie took one of their backstabs without blinking)
"A simple test of the relative merits of science and religion is to compare lighting your house at night by prayer or electricity" - A. C. Grayling
"EFF files have saves, too." - CamDawg
|| this is radio seanas || BP Series v3 || seanas at work ||
#38
Gort
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- Validating
- 614 posts
Posted 08 February 2007 - 07:27 AM
can't confirm this, too. Actually, I don't even think there is a way to attack with physical damage through stoneskin.
I still consider their ability to see invisibile as cheat.
I still consider their ability to see invisibile as cheat.
#39
Azazello
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The Anti-Spammer
Posted 08 February 2007 - 11:55 AM
Thanx guyz.
"Invisible Detection by Script" is in the vanilla BG2 so I'm gonna leave it alone. Don't like it, but there it is.
Would be more "realistic" if they did a Detect Illusion check like I've seen some thieves in BGT or was it NTotSC do.
Just wish palyer characters could get the same ability. :grumble-grumble:
"Invisible Detection by Script" is in the vanilla BG2 so I'm gonna leave it alone. Don't like it, but there it is.
Would be more "realistic" if they did a Detect Illusion check like I've seen some thieves in BGT or was it NTotSC do.
Just wish palyer characters could get the same ability. :grumble-grumble:
#40
irheat
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- 47 posts
Posted 09 February 2007 - 02:46 AM
Ok, I think I make a mistake here, it could be my stoneskin is with 1/2 layer left, and two many assassin is attacking at the same time(I am surrounded by assasins), one of the attack after stoneskin gone and I am chunk instantly.
