105 replies to this topic

[Kaeloree]

We'll definitely be doing an introduce-Imoen-to-the-party scene, yeah. I'm not writing Edwin, so I can't speak for him - but yes, I imagine there'll be a little more depth...

[Phlegmatic]

I have to say, I love the idea of NPC's recognising your romance. Or at least, Imoen recognising this, especially with her absence from the party (I wasnt sure if you had plans for anything else other than that). However I really enjoyed the Viconia romance, and one thing I would have enjoyed is seeing a little more from the party regarding this. They always seem ready enough to take orders, or comment on anything else, but dont utter a word when my character is professing his love for Viconia. So I would majorly love to see something along the lines of party NPC's recognition of your characters romance interest. Bringing it up with you personally, or perhaps even with your love interest, but basically just some chances to talk about the protagonists relationship with the other members of the party.

Other than that, which I was simply unsure about, everything else I would like to see looks to mostly have been covered. But I am really looking forward to this, since it will really revitalise BG II for me. Keep up the fantastic work!

[Kulyok]

I have to say, I love the idea of NPC's recognising your romance. Or at least, Imoen recognising this, especially with her absence from the party (I wasnt sure if you had plans for anything else other than that).

With the Banter and the Flirt Pack installed, Imoen comments at least once on every Bioware romance.

[Phlegmatic]

I have to say, I love the idea of NPC's recognising your romance. Or at least, Imoen recognising this, especially with her absence from the party (I wasnt sure if you had plans for anything else other than that).

With the Banter and the Flirt Pack installed, Imoen comments at least once on every Bioware romance.

Yeah, I do remember that Imoen had made a comment about it before. While I didnt get to say exactly what I would have wanted (though that is perhaps asking way too much with ANY in game dialogue), it left me wanting more of the same. Was this the comment Imoen makes in ToB? Because I think I remember two rather different versions depending on whether Viconia switched alignments or not, around about the time you reach Amkethran? At least, thats the only time I have ever had her comment on a romance.

[Kulyok]

Yes, that's was what I meant. Since both of them made me want to strangle Imoen immediately, I thought they were perfectly in character, , but I can see how you may want more of the same. I think a more rich relationship with Imoen is a part of this particular project, yes. Romance reactions might be nice, too, though I know I would feel uncomfortable if every Bioware NPC will make a point to comment on my Anomen Romance at least twice, however - and especially if they presume to know about his wedding proposal(which he'd make to my heroine in private) immediately after.

[Phlegmatic]

Yeah, I understand what you mean. Sometimes I have to refrain from disintegrating characters for their insolence, let alone if they started talking about a romance in the wrong way.

Speaking of disintegrations though, I do have one minor beef that Im unsure if its been brought up. Really though, I think its something minor, and it is technically fixed with the "happy NPC's" part of a mod. Im just wondering about expanding on the protagonist intervening when it comes to NPC's bickering, or in some cases, trying to kill each other. Once again, Im mainly thinking about the Viconia relationship, as I have wanted on occasion to try and stop the bickering, or failing that let Keldorn/Valygar know that when it comes to blows, I will choose Viconia over them (again, linked to the romance). While its a minor thing, I think it beats sitting there like a lemon while they are at each others throats, and then when Keldorn/Valygar tries to let out some righteous anger on Viconia, I disintegrate him.

All Im thinking is, particularly since Keldorn actually questions why they are sheltering a Drow, you can let him know that you love/like/or are more friends with Viconia, and value her more than him. Or either try to stop Viconia from goading Valygar, or try and persuade Valygar to ignore it.

Still, while all this is somewhat pointless since its no longer a problem with the Happy NPC's fix, I would still like to put Keldorn in his place, or perhaps when Im feeling slightly more sadistic suggest a trip to his family in the government district if he is so bent on killing Viconia. Its better than watching all that bickering in silence, and then kill who you favour, or kick out who you dont. Or simply watch it all amount to nothing with the fix in place.

Still, I know there are other instances outside of problems with Viconia, like the Keldorn/Aerie instance for example, but I am less familiar with those.

[Kaeloree]

We're going to be adding to the conflicts, and making it possible for the PC to intervene, yes

[Phlegmatic]

Ah, brilliant. That has been something that has bugged me from the first time I played BG II, and it just adds another reason to a long list of reasons why Im really looking forward to this mod.

[Alatariel]

Hm, the romance-related comment is indeed an interesting thought, but while it is only logical for Imoen to attempt it (well, she is your *sister*, like it or not), or acceptable for Jaheira (the 'guardian', 'elder sister complex' thing), or even for Minsc (because he won't have enough common sense to shut up when *Boo* will spot it :>) I doubt that any of the 'new' NPC's is a right person to comment on Charname's private life. Of course it could be done in a 'hinted' way -- for example: if the friendship global with the NPC in question is active and 'commited' (you are friends and in good relations with each other) and the romance global is active and commited with any other NPC, the comment may appear in random dialogue more as an afterthought to something (for example: you were discussing Irenicus 'tender treatment', and your friend says something in lines of 'I am happy that you got yourself a reliable guardian to watch over you, though. When it comes to safe-ensurement love is the most suitable caretaker to put confidence in') than an attempt to pry in your private life ('hey, Charmie'! See ya have a nice girlie there with ya! Nice in the right sort of things, uh?'). But this should be discussed with the individual writers - if there is a way to delicately put this content in and don't make anybody OC.

[Solar's Harper]

I have to say, I love the idea of NPC's recognising your romance. Or at least, Imoen recognising this, especially with her absence from the party (I wasnt sure if you had plans for anything else other than that).

With the Banter and the Flirt Pack installed, Imoen comments at least once on every Bioware romance.

I'd just like to add, Imoen also comments on the PC's relationships in the Imoen Romance mod, on more than one occasion with a certain NPC, I think that if it is possible, mods such as that one should be taken into consideration, in case of inconsistences etc.

[Kaeloree]

I don't think we will be taking such mods into account in this case. What I will do, is if there is a doubling over, make it so that that component does not install when you install IEP.

Usually, I'm all for crossmod content - but my Imoen is different to Imoen Romance's Imoen, and so I will be discouraging people from playing both mods at the same time (well, if you want to romance Imoen, use the Romance - if you want to befriend her, use IEP! ). The two versions of Imoen are very different, and her character development will be royally screwed up if you install both mods at once.

[shiroryu]

Kudos on the Introduce thing - I always felt that there was a lot missing in Imoen's return to the party! I hope IEP rocks, because it would add much-needed spice to the NPCs, which have always been BG2's strength.

I posted this at G3 in the Modding Ideas section, but now that I think of it, it could fall within the IEP's purview. Just a thought.

I was reading the Wheel of Time, and came across Mat Cauthon's love of dice. Got me wondering as to why we can't have a gambling mod in BG2 - not necessarily with non-joinable NPCs, but intra-party.

Add some drinks and banter, and we'd have even more fun If you're in a romance with an NPC and you lose/NPC loses, there'd be a lot of taunting done. Immy would clean up , and imagine Ano/Edwin having to shell out their hard-earned money.

A sort of bonding experience, eh?

What's more, this sort of thing is easily implemented in the D&D engine. A game of dice, for example, is just a 1d6 weapon away You could even have card games.

Edited by shiroryu, 29 November 2007 - 10:31 AM.

[CrazedSlayer]

something that i always liked in the game was Viconia's insults towards Aerie and other characters, and how everyone in the party laughs at Edwin when he gets turned into a girl. I would love to see more npcs say mean comments about each other. And is it just me, or is it odd that the only non-maincharicter involved romance is between Aerie and Haer'Dalis? i think it would be interesting to see more non-maincharicter romances.

[Arathlan]

the more I think about it - the more I'd like a few more of the alignment changing dialogues in BG2. One's already been mentioned (Imoen), but the built in romance option for Viconia...

I'd like the alignment switch made possible through a friendship mod where you're NOT romancing her. I typically don't take Viconia because she's evil will cause issues in party harmony and unless I romance her I can't switch her alignment (is that last bit correct or just my brain thinking it?)

If there was a friendship track for her I'd be much more interested in taking her along - as much for the novelty value as anything else.

I suppose right now it doesn't help that I'm doing a pally run.

[Adia]

Could it be possible to expand on Keldorn's interactions with CHARNAME?

I was actually pondering this when playing yesterday - particularly the Keldorn/Maria responses (letting him stay/giving him time but wanting him in the party) aren't entirely satisfying.

I was also considering a bit of Keldorn/Mazzy/CHARNAME interactions based on Anomen being a bit of a prat to them (especially if CHARNAME is romancing Anomen). There could be a few comments where they share their frustration at Anomen snapping at them.

[Kaeloree]

I believe Sephira is the wonderful lady working on the Keldorn friendship. Hopefully she'll see this thread and we'll see if she's planning any expansions to the Keldorn/Maria section.

Having Keldorn and Mazzy "complain" about Anomen sounds like a very interesting idea - as I've said a few times, if you feel you would be able to write them and aren't worried about people editing your writing (which tends to happen a lot so that characters are as in-character as we can make them!), then I'm happy to include anything people write! And if nobody feels they're able to, we'll see what we can do...

[SirLancelot]

The following paragraph is from the FAQ.

Will the NPC IEP change the personalities of any of the characters?
No - we are attempting to remain completely faithful to the personalities Bioware presented us with.

Depending on the consequences of this statement, i think perhaps you are making a wrong decision here. Sure, you must take this way in the "faithful" part, but the "completely" scares me, because i think the interesting path to follow it's to expand character personalities with new traits, some of them apparently contradictory with the original ones, like real persons. I really hope you won't fill up NPC's with more of the same.

New interactions, interjections and so on for the NPC's, great, but please, no ALL predictable and strictly according to Bioware text. Fresh air is needed.

I would like to have the feeling that i don't know completely the NPC's even after seen their last coded dialogue, the feeling that i cannot anticipate everything they will say.

My two cents.

Edited by SirLancelot, 14 March 2008 - 08:22 AM.

[SirLancelot]

Another thing: from my point of view, the scenary-plot dialogues are the most needed. It's really annoying for me that you and your party constantly face terrible, excitement and so on situations and events and most of times the NPC's don't react to them, they remain silent or talk about something completely accessory that should not appear (well, that also depends on character personality, of course) after discuss the critical happenings, specially those that have occured earlier and affect their current area.

[Kulyok]

Absolutely. I've just finished a BG1 NPC run after an IWD NPC run, and I just don't want to start BG2, because they're so - damn - silent.

[jcompton]

Kulyok, that had better not be a Domi impression you're working on.

It's really annoying for me that you and your party constantly face terrible, excitement and so on situations and events and most of times the NPC's don't react to them, they remain silent or talk about something completely accessory that should not appear (well, that also depends on character personality, of course) after discuss the critical happenings, specially those that have occured earlier and affect their current area.

This always sounds great in theory, but in practice I think sometimes people overlook the value of having characters occasionally just keep their mouths shut and let the player chew on what has happened in the game. Whether we are talking about relating the events of an epic computer game, or telling a simple joke, timing is part of storytelling. And an important part of timing is knowing when to offer a gap for contemplation.