66 replies to this topic

[berelinde]

It would be more work (a lot more work, really), but you could make everybody happy by doing it both ways and offering a choice.

I hate to keep using my own as-yet-uncompleted mod as a reference, but I'm familiar with it, and it's convenient. Some people may find certain aspects of Gavin's romance objectionable. It contains material that I would not want somebody's 12 year old child reading, and the flirts are aimed at an even older gamer. Therefore, I have made the romance and the flirts installable as separate components. Gavin's friendship track is developed enough so that someone who just wants to be his friend isn't missing anything.

If you did this with Valasse, I could install just the friendship path, and when my male PC finds her shivering and alone, he can act as paternal as he'd like without having to worry about anybody getting the wrong idea about his intentions.

A useful phrase for those times when you have no immediate intention of implementing the ideas someone suggests, but don't want to be offensive about it: "Thank you for expressing your opinion. I'll be taking it into consideration."

That way, if the idea isn't implemented, oh well, no one ever said it would be. If the idea is initially rejected an later implemented after further consideration, the original poster doesn't think "Heh. He didn't like my idea, he said, but look! He nicked it anyway!"

[Kulyok]

"Thank you for expressing your opinion. I'll be taking it into consideration."

Did you play "Diablo 2: The Lord of Destruction?"

(For those who didn't: the opening movie of that game starts with the words of a cleric who bids Bhaal and his army to leave the gates alone. Bhaal answers: "I shall take your position into consideration." A few moments pass, Bhaal lets out two fire tendrils, and blasts the cleric to bits. Then he continues: "Well.. It seems your terms are not acceptable.")


Seriously, it's a cool phrase, it's just for me, who has played Diablo time and again, it has only one meaning: "Die!!!"

[Tassadar88]

sorry, an accidental double post

Edited by Tassadar88, 13 January 2007 - 08:44 AM.

[Tassadar88]

And guest, don't worry, none offence taken. I have studied english for eight years and I know the basics. The problem is the lack of practise and of time to improve it. If I write the romance, I'll try my best to do it properly and I will also be helped by native speakers who will proofread what I write.

Hi, if you should be looking for proofreaders, I will assist you. I am not a native, but I still have a decent knowledge of the language (trying to translate Paradise Lost into Czech as it is ) And as far as this discussion is concerned, I see the mod as a completely OK concept as it is.

Edited by Tassadar88, 13 January 2007 - 06:07 PM.

[berelinde]

"Thank you for expressing your opinion. I'll be taking it into consideration."

Did you play "Diablo 2: The Lord of Destruction?"

(For those who didn't: the opening movie of that game starts with the words of a cleric who bids Bhaal and his army to leave the gates alone. Bhaal answers: "I shall take your position into consideration." A few moments pass, Bhaal lets out two fire tendrils, and blasts the cleric to bits. Then he continues: "Well.. It seems your terms are not acceptable.")


Seriously, it's a cool phrase, it's just for me, who has played Diablo time and again, it has only one meaning: "Die!!!"

Yeah, that's the usual outcome. But it's verbal shorthand for "I am not sure that I like your idea, but I would prefer to either 1) not burn any bridges or 2) pause for dramatic effect, so I'm saying this mostly to stall. I am sure that you are too polite to pressure me into commiting to an answer before I am ready, so I can carry on as planned, and you won't get angry with me for being arbitrary. See how open-minded I am?"

[Azkyroth]

Please I again ask you to keep this non-romantic it’s just wrong in so many ways.

How about using the other suggestions put forward like parent/child, mentor/pupil older brother (sister)/younger sister or simply friend/friend.

....

Okay, please, people, I thought it had been explained enough that your relationship with Valasse is *nothing* like a student/teacher or parent/child relationship. Enough, please.

I think it's been made adequately clear that we are NOT talking about a "kid" in the [edit]usual[/edit] sense here, even if she "looks" like one when first encountered, so I'm a little baffled as to why you continue to insist that it's "just wrong." Does this expressed discomfort mean you also wouldn't be comfortable romancing a (chronologically and mentally adult) NPC who described her build as "the body of a fifteen-year-old?"

I like the suggestion put forward by magnus 025 using the ‘V’ storyline. So maybe set a romance start trigger of say when she gets older. Something like she starts to be romance able in her 20’s.

At the rate that it sounds like she ages at, you'd have to start getting friendly before her 20s to be able to work out a real romance by that point, in the sense of having an actual relationship. Can I safely assume you would be even less comfortable having a one-night stand/purely physical thing with a character who appeared to be a "kid" when you first met her?

It would be more work (a lot more work, really), but you could make everybody happy by doing it both ways and offering a choice.

I hate to keep using my own as-yet-uncompleted mod as a reference, but I'm familiar with it, and it's convenient. Some people may find certain aspects of Gavin's romance objectionable. It contains material that I would not want somebody's 12 year old child reading, and the flirts are aimed at an even older gamer. Therefore, I have made the romance and the flirts installable as separate components. Gavin's friendship track is developed enough so that someone who just wants to be his friend isn't missing anything.

Leaving the 12 year old comment aside...hmm. This may be the only way of convincing most of the people who are for some reason uncomfortable with a romance here to play the NPC from which my mind does not outright recoil. I'm still not very happy with this sort of compromise in principle, but in practice it's something worth considering.

"Thank you for expressing your opinion. I'll be taking it into consideration."

Did you play "Diablo 2: The Lord of Destruction?"

(For those who didn't: the opening movie of that game starts with the words of a cleric who bids Bhaal and his army to leave the gates alone. Bhaal answers: "I shall take your position into consideration." A few moments pass, Bhaal lets out two fire tendrils, and blasts the cleric to bits. Then he continues: "Well.. It seems your terms are not acceptable.")


Seriously, it's a cool phrase, it's just for me, who has played Diablo time and again, it has only one meaning: "Die!!!"

I was thinking the same thing. As a side note, it's a perfect encapsulation of my feelings about those who implore me to water down my writing when it makes them uncomfortable.

Edited by Azkyroth, 14 January 2007 - 01:20 AM.

[Magnus_025]

This is getting bigger and bigger. Ok, sorry if I was harsh in my previous post. I am not the type of person who says "if you don't like what I'm doing then to the hell with you" and that wasn't my intention at all.
And for the mod, I just can't understand why so many people think this is a wrong idea. Don't misunderstand me please, I'm not fond on romancing childs and those sort of monstruosity, but Valasse is NOT a child. I know that in his first posts here, Zyraen proposed her to be 13 years old when you met her. Ok, I personally think that thas was an idea, not something established. Valasse will probably be a teenager when you first meet her, but the teen ages goes from 13 to 19 years old.
I don't know what would be her starting age when the mod is done, but would it be something horrible is she starts with 16-17 years old? I'm not asking for permission here because I don't even know what will be the final idea, I'm just rambling a little. Well, if she starts with 16 years old, and we all assume that PC is about 20 (21 max), you would only be 4 years older than her. Is that so bad? Personally, my father is four years older than my mother and I don't see it as a problem.
And for the friendship path, I agree, it would be fine but it would be a lot of extra work, and maybe for future versions. I have never written, I don't know how to structure a lovetalk properly yet, don't know many things... but I'm trying hard to learn. The problem is that I'm in my last year at university and it's going to be difficult. I'll try to write for Valasse as much as I can, at least to finish a few talks and send them to Zyraen to see if he likes them and if I continue writting for him. I really hope that's the case, because I have only tested her alpha version and it just rocks.
Nothing more, thanks to all of you who seem to have interest in this project. Bye!

Edited by Magnus_025, 14 January 2007 - 06:49 AM.

[berelinde]

@Azkyroth: reality is subjective. You know this. You interpret the reality that is perceptible data and form an opinion. Please do not interpret this to mean that anyone who does not instanatly revise their opinions based on something they have not yet seen is being narrowminded. Keep in mind that this subject inherently provokes very strong reactions.

@ everyone else: I am always in favor of NPCs that can stand on their own with or without a romance. Most of us just don't have the time to play the game as many times as we'd like using the combinations of mods we'd like. Having a mod that is satisfying without the romance is a key factor in determining whether or not I will download a mod. I always have Xan and Kivan as part of my install because I want them in the party whether I'm romancing them or not. There are some NPCs whose friendship value is not worth the hard-drive space they take up, so I don't download them, even if the romance is rather nice. It really is as simple as that.

[Azkyroth]

@Azkyroth: reality is subjective. You know this. You interpret the reality that is perceptible data and form an opinion. Please do not interpret this to mean that anyone who does not instanatly revise their opinions based on something they have not yet seen is being narrowminded. Keep in mind that this subject inherently provokes very strong reactions.

This doesn't make a lot of sense, read literally; I assume you mean perceptions of reality are subjective. And I am indeed aware of this. And I think I am justified in assuming that it is a not-merely-narrow-but-closed-minded act, even by a person who is normally open-minded, not to revise an opinion based on contradictory evidence which they have seen, or can reasonably be expected to have seen. I also think I am justified in assuming that it is a foolish act, even by a normally prudent person, to post a response like that without having read new posts that might have some bearing on the truth of the premises on which that chunk of argument rests.

And yes, I am aware that this is a subject that provokes strong emotional reactions (although, considering the number of cultures throughout history who haven't seen a problem with relationships between *real* 13 year old girls and adult men, it seems to be less inherent than you might think); I've read the 106th Congress' Resolution 107. This is one of the reasons I've been careful above not to generalize from the qualities of actions or choices to the qualities of those making them.

Magnus, I encourage you to keep the original age, and do the romance as a separate optional component if you're worried about community reception.

[EDIT]And to be perfectly frank, the unmodded BG2 game allows a player numerous opportunities to engage in actions that are, by any reasonable standard and in many cases by a widish margin, even more vile than engaging in a romantic, or even physical, relationship with an amenable teenager--even a real one. Sacrificing Adalon's eggs, abandoning Viconia to the fanatics, poisoning the druid grove, and making/wearing the hide armor, come to mind, as do the Cleric of Talos stronghold quests. Some mods, like The Mod for the Wicked, give players the chance to do even worse things. Yet I haven't seen a lot of complaints about players being offered those options.

Edited by Azkyroth, 15 January 2007 - 01:49 AM.

[Tassadar88]

Magnus, I encourage you to keep the original age, and do the romance as a separate optional component if you're worried about community reception.

Me too. And once again, should you be looking for a proofreader, I stand ready.

[Zyraen]

Overall, I think the quality of debate here shows talent possibly best employed in a Mod rather than in emnity against each other.

Since I do not know when Liam will get to Magnus about a forum for the mod, in meantime those who want to write for the Mod, (and hence are willing to be spoilt), please PM me. I will link you to the pre-Alpha and a private forum I have on a very old unused place that should contain most of the material required to get the creative juices flowing in a Mod-sense rather than towards a debative excursion.

[Shining Light]

This could be an interesting mod.
I'm a native English speaker, so if you want me to look through it, feel free to contact me.

[Zyraen]

I could contact you guys, but one of the Caveats of being a Writer is that the story will be immensely Spoilt. So please let me know if willing to be Spoilt.

[Shining Light]

Well, I'll probably only be a proofreader, but I'm willing to be Spoilt.

[Tassadar88]

No problem being boiled and spoilt...

[Magnus_025]

I just want to tell you that even if I don't appear here much (because I'm having lots studying to do), I'm still working on Valasse. When I have something more than a few talks done I'll contact with Zyraen and will ask you to proofread.
Bye!

[Tassadar88]

Same here. Good luck with studies and see you later*T

[Myst]

Valasse? Zyraen, you got writers? Hooray!!!!!

Those who are upset with the Valasse romance idea - things are DEFINITELY NOT what they seem. I know something about this mod - in fact, I was supposed to be her voice. If I could figure out how to change the extension on my filenames, I could have her pic as my avatar again. No, I don't have a program that can do it, I just got a new computer and am still figuring things out.

Err ... this is Silk, btw, only there was a Silk registered here already, so I'm Myst. Does that make sense?

PS: I don't have Messenger yet, I'm working on that, Zyraen.

Edited by Myst, 21 January 2007 - 06:57 AM.

[AnnabelleRose]

I could contact you guys, but one of the Caveats of being a Writer is that the story will be immensely Spoilt. So please let me know if willing to be Spoilt.

That (and writer's block) is why I no longer voulenteer to work on mods I want to play (like this one).

[Zyraen]

I already PMed those who requested info at any time, whether recently or not so recently. Those who are left out, in case I missed PMing some, with the link to the private forum and the pre-Alpha, please PM me so I can let you know the details.