10 replies to this topic

[Delight]

I was browsing creature files in BG2 and I discovered a weird thing - most of NPCs seem to have insanely high experience levels.
I.E. common thugs are level 7, city guards are level 8, thieves are level 10 most of wizards are over level 12. Of course a lot of them seem to have class critical stats on 17 - 18.
I don't the think it's realistic or believable unless most of them went through epic quests like <CHARNAME> did.

I think that such high levels should be reserved for real heroes like <CHARNAME> or Bruenor (level 13) or Drizzt. Most of non-heroes should be below level 4.
So, my idea is to bring back the value of experience levels by degrading most of NPCs to lower levels.

Any thoughts?

[Efreet]

A very tricky matter.

How to keep the enemies "realistic" and still provide a challenge for a party of high level adventurers?

[Delight]

I think that some of enemies should remain powerful - they would provide a challenge.
Besides, character would gain levels slower if less 4000 XP worth common thugs would be avaible.

IMHO there's a lot more in cRPGs than challenge. I think that experiencing the world and PC is more important than being challenged.

I think that the choice between squashing weak enemies like bugs (not very challenging, but safe) and seeking worthy opponents (that are challenging but also are very dangerous) is a normal part of being high level character.

My idea for balance between realism and challenge is to make those enemies that don't "deserve" being powerful a lot weaker, but leavethose who "deserve" be powerful (monsters, heroes, etc.) as they are, maybe give them some magical items - level 9-20 mage (or any other NPC) without magical items looks really weird.

Edited by Delight, 03 August 2006 - 07:20 AM.

[yarpen]

True... give him a beer Or two

If you still want Sorrow/Delight, I'm on your team.

[Archmage Silver]

Well, there's no way NPC's could get to level 34 without gaining godhood either. If you want realism in the term of level rules, you'll have to restrict pretty much everything, otherwise it's just a tweak and makes the game easy IMO.

[WizWom]

Without seriously revamping the whole of SoA, i don't think this can really be corrected. It's all part and parcel of the attempt to have a high level campaign, without making any concessions to reality, such as the fact that every one of those 8th level thugs is a force to be reckoned with; a group of 5 should be leading a bandit group or some such. And an 8th level footpad should have some clue that maybe the PC's party is NOT the group to be tangling with, and know when to run away.

but, hey, then you'd have a different game.

[yarpen]

But it can be also connected with big game-nerfing-pack. Maybe integralized with something like a DEF JAM, also item nerfs, some spells weaked, not that much gold like in vanilla BG2... And yes! you'd have a different game.

[Delight]

True... give him a beer Or two

If you still want Sorrow/Delight, I&apos;m on your team.

Welcome back .

Well, there&apos;s no way NPC&apos;s could get to level 34 without gaining godhood either. If you want realism in the term of level rules, you&apos;ll have to restrict pretty much everything, otherwise it&apos;s just a tweak and makes the game easy IMO.

I would like to see how would NPCs gain such high levels without easily accesible 6000xp cannon fodder .

Without seriously revamping the whole of SoA, i don&apos;t think this can really be corrected. It&apos;s all part and parcel of the attempt to have a high level campaign

Heh.
It's sad that BW has forgotten to read advise about remembering of demographics in DMO: HLC and a certain table

Keep these numbers in mind when creating NPCs for your campaign. Your world not only becomes more believable if it isn't overrun with super characters, but your players have a greater sense of accomplishment when they realize just what they have achieved. Be sure to keep important NPCs alive when possible—it can take a generation to replace a high-level character.

I think that it's a very important thing, because I find the constant stream of challanges in BG2 tiring.
What's the point in gaining such high levels when game is getting more and more difficutult?

Ahh...
And the table:

General Population		  Character Level	 Approx no. in 1,000,000 
10								  1 1st					133,120  
20								  1 2nd					66,560
40								  1 3rd					33,280
80								  1 4th					16,640 
160								1 5th					8,320 
320								1 6th					4,160 
640								1 7th					2,080
1,380							 1 8th					1,040 
2,560							 1 9th					512 
5,120							 1 10th				  256 
10,240						   1 11th				  128 
20,480						   1 12th				   64 
40,960						   1 13th				   32
81,920						   1 14th				   16 
163,840						 1 15th				   8
326,680						 1 16th				   4 
655,360						 1 17th				   2 
1,310,720					  1 18th				   1

(damn, it doesn't work )

Without seriously revamping the whole of SoA, i don&apos;t think this can really be corrected.

And serious revamping of the whole SoA is what me and my team are going to do .

[SConrad]

(damn, it doesn't work )

As shown, the [ code ]-tag preserves whitespace.

[Delight]

Thanks .

[yarpen]

Also I'm now working on original PnP abilities/atributes etc. for creatures.