41 replies to this topic

[seanas]

A question I have about baldur.bcs size being an issue, is once you are completed with your install, it typically is as big as it's going to get, so if that was the culprit, wouldn't it be stuttering along from the beginning of your game? Or would it be a global variable that gets toggled that causes a check in the baldur.bcs to become active, that causes the stuttering to begin at a later point in the game?

you'd think so, and it's why i didnt mention it earlier. but who knows? actually, maybe i do: the problem horred was having was with the 'gradual drow disintegration' components of (what was then) G3Tweaks. it was checking for disintegration either every second or every round (that bit i can't remember exactly) whenever the party was above ground - ie, outside of Chateau Irenicus. and conceivably, the reason why zachD is having problems with containers is that the drow disintegration routine is checking inside all yr bags (to avoid cheating) which, when they're infinite, will take a measurable amount of time.

so: those of you with the stutter: try removing the gradual drow disintegration component of whichever mod installs it (it might be BG2Tweaks, these days) and see what happens. even if it doesn't entirely work, it beats the shit out of manually editing .bcs files .

[zachD]

Lol, um, possession of what, officer?

Yeah I dont mind it at all. Been playing for a while tonight with one gem bag and its barely perceptible. Iirc though, bags of holding were in the original first edition AD&D DMs guide lists, right along with bags of devouring.

I only imported the bare necessity type kinda items from my BG1 game chars and I have very little coin but a few nice items to start and its a good challenge. Just fought Torgal, took like 30 mins, cast like 80% of all the spells i had during fight (4 casters in group) and still had 2 dead in group afterwards but woot what a fight

I dont think I installed the gradual drow disintigration, but it may be built into one of the newer versions of the mods, I have no idea, but will try and check that. Pretty sure it was in the G3tweak pack though.

[seanas]

I dont think I installed the gradual drow disintigration, but it may be built into one of the newer versions of the mods, I have no idea, but will try and check that. Pretty sure it was in the G3tweak pack though.

that's a shame, cos otherwise yr rapidly approaching the SOL stage: where you've either been hit with the unlunky stick like wellunhappy, or there's something specifically funky with the way yr installing, what yr installing, and what yr installing it onto.

[Miraz]

And I don't even have the Tweaks installed, so I know I don't have the Drow Disintegration Component .

Editing baldur.bcs looks to be my last hope. No idea what I'm doing though.

[seanas]

Editing baldur.bcs looks to be my last hope. No idea what I'm doing though.

actually, the reason why i asked you to post yr baldur.bcs is cos i was more or less volunteering to check it myself.

having done so, i have to say a: i'd forgotten how much stuff CtB, SoS and NEj add to baldur.bcs; and b: nothing jumped out at me as being likely to cause the game lag yr experiencing. there're a few duplications, but nothing that's going to cause the lag yr seeing.

unfortunately, the only option you've got left is experimentation. first, make sure that every process yr machine is running that isn't essential is turned off.

then, start by turning off the party AI: do things improve? if yes, then either the AI you've got installed is slowing things down, or yr system can't cope with the demands of yr install. if it's the AI: turn the party AI back on and change scripts, and see if that helps. if system limitations: open the BGConfig.exe and lower everything you can find to a minimum: ifd things improve, slowly increase the settings and check again.

if no joy there, then try uninstalling mods and trying again. start with NPC mods - uninstall one, check for lag; if no change, uninstall another and check for lag again. in spite of the additions to baldur.bcs that CtB, SoS and NEJ add, game lag is unlikely to be caused by them, so dont bother uninstalling the big mods - but you may well have to work thru all yr other mods to find out what's happening.

and if you get to the point of uninstalling every mod other than the big mods, then it's complete reinstall time: delete everything BGII related, start from scratch, and test yr game at as many points along the install process as possible. at the very least, after the big mods and BP (which means, yes: for testing purposes, install BP right after the big mods - anything else will have to come later).

unfortunately, we've gone thru all the likely possibilities, and even the unlikely ones, so the only possibility left is something about yr particular install on yr particular machine - and the only way you can work out what is by experimenting along the lines i've described.

[erebusant]

I checked my Baldur.bcs last night, and the one from my current install is 717 kb. So far, no lag, but I'm trying it without any bags at all, and just unlimited stacks, and lots of trips to the stores to sell stuff.

My Baldur.bcs went from 77K to 117K with NEJ install, and then between that to the beginning of Bonehill, it jumped up to 535K.

One thing that made a big difference in my game was upgrading hardware, and I'm still not to where I really want to be as far as processor speed etc. but I used to have only a 500Mhz CPU, and bumping up to 1.6G and DDR memory, and AGP8x from 1X made a heck of a difference too.

[seanas]

Avenger's reply here got me thinking that maybe we are looking at a baldur.bcs problem, combined with a hardware shortcoming:

PartyHasItem* is really tough, of course. It will have to go over every partymembers inventory in every AI cycle.
You don't need this. Most of the times an area script, or even an area trigger script is sufficient.

Miraz's baldur.bcs has dozens of PartyHas Item checks: mostly added by SoS and CtB.

most of these checks are limited by other conditions, so they wouldn't cause any problems - altho if yr carrying any of CBisson's cursed weapons, i'd expect yr game to slow to a crawl - but some aren't. the one that's jumping out at me relates to finding Montaron's body:

IF
Delay(10)
Global("FoundMontaronBody","GLOBAL",0)
PartyHasItem("Misc5U") // Montaron's Body
THEN
  RESPONSE #100
	Set Global("FoundMontaronsBody","GLOBAL",1)
	AddExperienceParty(20000)
END

unless i'm reading this wrong - which is always possible, hey - this is going to cause the game engine to continually search yr inventories for Monty's body. the thing is, there's already a check for this in BP - but it's limited by an InParty("Xzar") so it won't misbehave. so the questions are: which mod adds this check (is it D0Tweaks?) and does uninstalling this component remove the game lag problem?

[zachD]

Been playing with no containers and installed the unlimited stacking for potions scrolls etc.

Not seeing any unusual stutter at all now, even with inventories almost full for the whole party.

Not sure what the recommended specs are for running BP but I have a p4, 1.6ghz, 1gig PCI (I think) ram, and an ATI radeon 8500, im guessing that should be sufficient. I know the ATI cards have some compatibility problems though - mine crashes semi often, more when I try to run certain games. No idea if my graphics card would effect the stutter in any way. Inclined to think my problem is related to my particular PC somehow though.

It did seem to get noticeably worse with each container I added into group. Sounds like somehow when I add containers its starting the inventory checks. I have very little in the way of tweaks installed.

Current WeiDu log:
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name
~SETUP-BD-TOB.TP2~ #0 #0 // Baldurdash Fix Pack for ToB, v1.5 WeiDU
~SETUP-BD-TOB.TP2~ #0 #1 // Textupdatepack -> Baldurdash English Text Update Pack for ToB, v1.4 WeiDU
~SETUP-SOS.TP2~ #0 #0 // Shadows Over Soubar, v1.11
~SETUP-SOS.TP2~ #0 #1 // Remorhaz walking speed adjustment (for ENGLISH version .EXE ONLY!!!)
~SETUP-TDD.TP2~ #0 #0 // The Darkest Day, v1.11
~SETUP-TS-BP.TP2~ #0 #0 // TORTURED SOULS v6.04.01 (BP Compatible Version)
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #0 // Big Picture AI/Enhancement Mod, version 177 weidu (beta)
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #1 // Improved Suldanessallar
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #2 // Improved Spellhold
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #3 // Wand of Orcus Add-In
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #4 // Improved Small Teeth Pass, by Kensai Ryu
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #6 // Kensai Ryu's Improved Crypt King
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #7 // Kensai Ryu's Gnome Fighter/Illusionist in the Docks
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #8 // Improved Random Encounters, by Gebhard Blucher and Kensai Ryu
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #9 // Gebhard Blucher's Lich in the Docks
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #10 // Red Badge, Poison-Based Encounter, by Westley Weimer
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #11 // Kuroisan the Acid Kensai, by Westley Weimer
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #12 // The Ritual, by Westley Weimer
~SETUP-BPV177.TP2~ #0 #15 // Ascension for BP
~SETUP-FR_ROV.TP2~ #0 #0 // Freedom's Reign (SoA or ToB)
~SETUP-FR_ROV.TP2~ #0 #1 // Reign of Virtue (ToB)
~SETUP-BP-BGT-WORLDMAP.TP2~ #0 #0 // Revised worldmap for the Baldur's Gate - including coloured Baldur's Gate map icons -> Installing new Worldmap for use with Mega Modification
~SETUP-BP-BGT-WORLDMAP.TP2~ #0 #2 // Use new worldmap for Throne of Bhaal as well
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1160 // Multiple Strongholds (Baldurdash)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3080 // Unlimited Ammo Stacking
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3090 // Unlimited Gem and Jewelry Stacking
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3100 // Unlimited Potion Stacking
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3110 // Unlimited Scroll Stacking
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3150 // Turn Off The Hideous Cloak-of-Mirroring and Spell-Trap Animation

Edited by zachD, 22 July 2006 - 01:40 PM.

[erebusant]

Avenger's reply here got me thinking that maybe we are looking at a baldur.bcs problem, combined with a hardware shortcoming:

PartyHasItem* is really tough, of course. It will have to go over every partymembers inventory in every AI cycle.
You don't need this. Most of the times an area script, or even an area trigger script is sufficient.

Miraz's baldur.bcs has dozens of PartyHas Item checks: mostly added by SoS and CtB.

most of these checks are limited by other conditions, so they wouldn't cause any problems - altho if yr carrying any of CBisson's cursed weapons, i'd expect yr game to slow to a crawl - but some aren't. the one that's jumping out at me relates to finding Montaron's body:

IF
Delay(10)
Global("FoundMontaronBody","GLOBAL",0)
PartyHasItem("Misc5U") // Montaron's Body
THEN
  RESPONSE #100
	Set Global("FoundMontaronsBody","GLOBAL",1)
	AddExperienceParty(20000)
END

unless i'm reading this wrong - which is always possible, hey - this is going to cause the game engine to continually search yr inventories for Monty's body. the thing is, there's already a check for this in BP - but it's limited by an InParty("Xzar") so it won't misbehave. so the questions are: which mod adds this check (is it D0Tweaks?) and does uninstalling this component remove the game lag problem?

Getting back to editing ones' baldur.bcs, I found just the 5 "Hellblades" create 220kb of "partyhasitem" checks. I think that is from SoS. Another thing of issue, is the Baldur.bcs gets biffed in the course of running the bigs mods. So as long as I suck a copy of my baldur.bcs out of my ending biff with NI and do my edits and drop it into my override directory, if I seriously screw it up, I should be able to just delete it from the override directory to restore my game to where it was, correct?

Edited by erebusant, 22 July 2006 - 03:50 PM.

[seanas]

Getting back to editing ones' baldur.bcs, I found just the 5 "Hellblades" create 220kb of "partyhasitem" checks. I think that is from SoS. Another thing of issue, is the Baldur.bcs gets biffed in the course of running the bigs mods. So as long as I suck a copy of my baldur.bcs out of my ending biff with NI and do my edits and drop it into my override directory, if I seriously screw it up, I should be able to just delete it from the override directory to restore my game to where it was, correct?

yeah, those bloody hellblades... far easier to a: remove every ref to them; and b: not pick them up. but as i said: those checks all have conditions on them prior to the PartyHasItem check, so they shouldn't be adding anything other than bloat to yr baldur.bcs. shouldn't be, of course.

and yes: if you've got a biffed baldur.bcs (or even if you've just got a backed up version before you start editing it) then removing yr edited one from yr override folder (and restoring yr backup, if you chose than option) will remove any problems you might have created making the edits.

[Milandir]

Seem to have been bitten by the stutter bug as well, as if my sound problems weren't enough... Bugger.
Weirdness began to arise in the Ust Natha, where I noticed my main character constantly shifting his sprite from "action" to "loiter," if you know what I mean. This was after Adalon performed her drow-metamorphosis on us, and with the dispelling of that, so did the issue vanish.
Upon reaching the surface and exiting the area (going to Cromwell for some good ole' forgin'), the stuttering began...

Dropping every item on every character (or deleting them in SK/NI) didn't prove helpful, neither did combining that plausible measure with removing everyone in my party except for myself.
Changing back to extreme basic configurations doesn't help either.

Override folder is 144MB, baldur.bcs is 685kB.

One thing I did notice, is that when I reloaded an earlier save (chapter 2-3-4-5), the problems were gone... only to represent themselve when loading my most recent one

Edited by Milandir, 30 August 2006 - 06:43 AM.

[erebusant]

Seem to have been bitten by the stutter bug as well, as if my sound problems weren't enough... Bugger.
Weirdness began to arise in the Ust Natha, where I noticed my main character constantly shifting his sprite from "action" to "loiter," if you know what I mean. This was after Adalon performed her drow-metamorphosis on us, and with the dispelling of that, so did the issue vanish.
Upon reaching the surface and exiting the area (going to Cromwell for some good ole' forgin'), the stuttering began...

Dropping every item on every character (or deleting them in SK/NI) didn't prove helpful, neither did combining that plausible measure with removing everyone in my party except for myself.
Changing back to extreme basic configurations doesn't help either.

Override folder is 144MB, baldur.bcs is 685kB.

One thing I did notice, is that when I reloaded an earlier save (chapter 2-3-4-5), the problems were gone... only to represent themselve when loading my most recent one

Are you running your party with the Drow Avatars by any chance? If so, in BG2 Tweaks, try installing the "No Drow Avatars in the Underdark" component. I had a game once where the jerkiness was absolutely horrible and removing the drow avatars that Adalon casts on you fixed it entirely.

[Milandir]

Seem to have been bitten by the stutter bug as well, as if my sound problems weren't enough... Bugger.
Weirdness began to arise in the Ust Natha, where I noticed my main character constantly shifting his sprite from "action" to "loiter," if you know what I mean. This was after Adalon performed her drow-metamorphosis on us, and with the dispelling of that, so did the issue vanish.
Upon reaching the surface and exiting the area (going to Cromwell for some good ole' forgin'), the stuttering began...

Dropping every item on every character (or deleting them in SK/NI) didn't prove helpful, neither did combining that plausible measure with removing everyone in my party except for myself.
Changing back to extreme basic configurations doesn't help either.

Override folder is 144MB, baldur.bcs is 685kB.

One thing I did notice, is that when I reloaded an earlier save (chapter 2-3-4-5), the problems were gone... only to represent themselve when loading my most recent one

Are you running your party with the Drow Avatars by any chance? If so, in BG2 Tweaks, try installing the "No Drow Avatars in the Underdark" component. I had a game once where the jerkiness was absolutely horrible and removing the drow avatars that Adalon casts on you fixed it entirely.

I ran my party with Drow Avatars; the problems (except for said minor issue) didn't begin until my party's appearance returned to normal, and when I left the exit from the underdark area...

[Chevalier]

Do you have 'Gradual Drow Item Disintegration' installed?? If so then that would be it.

[Milandir]

No I don't

Thanks for the feedback so far, nevertheless!

[WizWom]

It's almost definately the hellblades component, from the Baldur.bcs

It's got multiple "talking sword" blocks, which just add lilacor-style comments. you could safely rip all that out.

If the game encounters more than 4800 script blocks (easy with most improved AIs and a huge Baldur.bcs) then it slowws the game to accomodate - even if the computer could run 20,000 script blocks in a frame.

[Milandir]

Thanks!

How would I go about in deleting those scripts?

I've got as far as opening the .bcs file in NI (to see the decompiled view).

Edited by Milandir, 31 August 2006 - 08:43 AM.

[erebusant]

Thanks!

How would I go about in deleting those scripts?

I've got as far as opening the .bcs file in NI (to see the decompiled view).

Once you have your Baldur.bcs opened in NI, click on "find" and then select "in this script only" and type in CBHB in the search bar, and press enter. It will list every Hellblade entry in your Baldur.bcs and give you the line # the script occurs at and everything. The line number displays at the bottom right of the display. Then all you need to do is highlight the entire IF/THEN block and press delete and it's gone. Just make sure after you delete there is 1 blank line between the END in the last script block before the deleted blocks and the IF in the next script block after the dletion and press compile and it will recompile fine. Then press save and it is done.

There's a lot of lines of checks for each of the Hellblades as there's 5 of them. You might want to look at getting rid of other things as well, like Lilarcor & Elfsapate if they are items you will never equip, or care if they rebel against you or not.

Edited by erebusant, 31 August 2006 - 10:34 AM.

[Milandir]

Thanks dude!!!

So I'm just to go through these 612 script entries then? Sweet. Piece of cake.

Edit: meh... in my rigour I deleted every line of script between Anomen Romance and "if player is evil_paladin."

Let's see if this works

Edited by Milandir, 31 August 2006 - 11:11 AM.

[Milandir]

Didn't help a thing...

What I did notice, is that my baldur.bcs is currently (ie, after the deletion of 612+ scripts related to those swords) still holding over 8400 lines... If my math is any good, that number of lines couldn't account for over 4800 scripts - meaning the lag comes from elsewhere (and the effect of the deletion of said scripts has been futile, as experienced in game).

Any thoughts?