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What Ability Ranks Mean


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#1 AnnabelleRose

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Posted 18 May 2006 - 07:10 PM

Been meaming to make this post for a while, but I had left the book in the old house. Basically I thought this could serve as a guideline for NPC stats. Note this table is an official Dungeons and Dragons 2nd edition table. This was taken from the "Domains of Dread" core book for the Ravenloft setting.

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00. - Not applicable to the character.
01. - So low as to be almost unmeasurable.
02. - Below human minimum.
03. - Functional human minimum.
04. - Impaired in a major fashion.
05. - Impaired in a minor fashion.

06. - Well below human average.
07. - Below human average.
08. - Low human average.
09. - Human average.
10. - Human average.
11. - High human average.

12. - Above human average.
13. - Well above human average.
14. - Among the best in the village.
15. - Among the best in the city.
16. - Among the best in the region.
17. - Among the best in the nation.

18. - Among the best in the world.
19. - Beyond the limits of normal man.
20. - Beyond the limits of heroic man.
21. - Surpassing superhuman levels.
22. - The equal of the demigods.
23. - The equal of the lesser gods.

24. - The equal of the gods.
25. - The equal of the greater gods.

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My hope is that this table will help with creation of balanced NPCs.

Edited by MajorTomSawyer, 18 May 2006 - 07:20 PM.

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#2 the bigg

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:23 AM

My hope is that this table will help with creation of balanced NPCs.

:lol: :D :lol:

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#3 AnnabelleRose

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 04:02 AM

Heh.... Valid point.

Hopefully it will show would be modders what it means when their NPC has a stat (or two) in the mid-twenties.

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#4 CamDawg

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 04:19 AM

I find it much funnier to use lists like this in one of the "ZOMG WHAT R UR REAL LIFE STATS WTFLOLBBQ!!!111onehundredandeleven". The sheer number of rocket scientists, politicians, and Olympic athletes that are participating in D&D forum threads truly boggles the mind.

Why is this Hypnotoad video so popu... ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD.
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#5 AnnabelleRose

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 04:24 AM

lmao!

Best use of this thread ever.

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#6 Delight

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 05:27 AM

Been meaming to make this post for a while, but I had left the book in the old house. Basically I thought this could serve as a guideline for NPC stats. Note this table is an official Dungeons and Dragons 2nd edition table. This was taken from the "Domains of Dread" core book for the Ravenloft setting.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

00. - Not applicable to the character.
01. - So low as to be almost unmeasurable.
02. - Below human minimum.
03. - Functional human minimum.
04. - Impaired in a major fashion.
05. - Impaired in a minor fashion.

06. - Well below human average.
07. - Below human average.
08. - Low human average.
09. - Human average.
10. - Human average.
11. - High human average.

12. - Above human average.
13. - Well above human average.
14. - Among the best in the village.
15. - Among the best in the city.
16. - Among the best in the region.
17. - Among the best in the nation.

18. - Among the best in the world.
19. - Beyond the limits of normal man.
20. - Beyond the limits of heroic man.
21. - Surpassing superhuman levels.
22. - The equal of the demigods.
23. - The equal of the lesser gods.

24. - The equal of the gods.
25. - The equal of the greater gods.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My hope is that this table will help with creation of balanced NPCs.

I think that this interpretation is incoherent with stat bonuses.
...

#7 Drew

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 03:00 PM

I think that this interpretation is incoherent with stat bonuses.

It is. That's why they changed the bonus structure for 3e.
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#8 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 05:03 PM

The clue is in the word "bonuses"; i.e. they are something the majority of people don't have.

#9 AnnabelleRose

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Posted 19 May 2006 - 06:08 PM

The clue is in the word "bonuses"; i.e. they are something the majority of people don't have.


Well said posted. I could not agree more, which is why this list works.

Charisma for example:

Just because most people like you does not mean you have an 18 chr. You probably have an 11.

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#10 Delight

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 04:11 AM

Being liked by most people is a bonus.

From my experience, people who are above average are better in doing something than average people.
This should be reflected by bonuses.
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#11 Lord Ernie

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 05:59 AM

Hrmmm... the list is a bit severe, yes. Not to say that Cam's wrong with his notion about most people giving themselves stats way off the charts, of course, but the use of this thing in creating characters is limited.

Balanced characters, as stated, should not be measured against a list, but against existing characters. Looking at BG2, this list basically means that every damn NPC you can take along is among the best in the world in his/her profession.

NPC's overall have high statistics, and there are a few like Keldorn and Imoen that are just way up there. According to this list, Keldorn would be among the strongest, toughest, wisest and most charismatic men in the nation/world, and above averagely intelligent.

So while this list is nice, its applications are limited.

And on the matter of the bonuses not matching the list: I agree. Being the strongest man in the city (16 strength) should do a bit more than a +1 to damage bonus you get. Similarly for other stats.

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#12 Delight

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 07:06 AM

I think that applying this list to BG series would require rebalancing creature stats and stat bonuses.

Anyway, I found those descriptions very useful for my own TC, thanks for sharing them with us :) .
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#13 CamDawg

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 07:14 AM

I think MTS is trying to address a consistent problem in NPC mods--stats of 19+ for humans or ridiculous 100+ totals. You often see stuff like "19 Charisma COZ SHES OMG HOTT!!!111" when stats are being discussed. The more exceptional the stat, the more exceptional the justification must be, especially if stats go beyond human (or elven/dwarven/etc.) maximums. Not saying it an't be done, it's simply that there appears to be a trend of powerful NPCs with weak back stories (if any) to justify their stats.

Adventurers should be well above average, true, but keeping them around the Bioware NPC average of high 80s is, I think, a good recommendation.

Why is this Hypnotoad video so popu... ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD.
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#14 Grim Squeaker

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 07:48 AM

There's also the increasing frequency of people suggesting kits that allow +1 strength and dexterity etc, just because 'well they are strong and quick'.
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#15 AnnabelleRose

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 08:35 AM

Cam explained my thought process on this perfectly.

Cheers!

I hope that some cats will get some use out of this.

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#16 cirerrek

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Posted 20 May 2006 - 11:59 PM

Looking at it from a numbers standpoint. In the campaigns I played in my youth, we typically stuck to the following format.

Roll 3d6 (No 1's 2's or 3's allowed)


All 4's All 6's
STR 12 18
DEX 12 18
CON 12 18
INT 12 18
WIS 12 18
CHA 12 18

Total 72 108

The reason being that if you weren't significanty above average, you'd be dead in short order.

Think about say Navy Seal teams. Highly trained, highly motivated, well equipped and they still occassionally get their asses handed to them when something goes wrong.

I've never played with a D&D group or DM that was capable of even coming close to that level of organization.

Titihius checks the door for traps and finds that it is locked. Using his trusty thieves tools he manages to pick the lock with a only a minor amount of noise. Pausing to listen, he hears nothing from the room beyond. He looks to his party of comrades and gives them the clear sign. Gorban the Destroyer motions for Tithius to get on with it and open the door. The party girds their loins in preparation for what might lie ahead. Ever so slightly, Tithius depresses the door latch and gives the door a sligth push. The door swings noiselessly open on well oiled hinges exposing a dimly lit chamber and a figure holding a crossbow. Tithius doesn't even have time to say a prayer to the gods before a bolt from the crossbow slams into his forehead. He falls to the floor stone dead. Heavily armed troopers stream into the hallway arms at the ready. (Party -1, Heavily Armed Troopers = +1)

With the individual effort I've seen from most adventuring parties, you'd need to be the best of the best or the odds of dying quickly would be high.

I'd like to read a book about a group of adventures that did plan everything to a T, then relied on personally ability+teamwork when the plan met the enemy.

Bard goes off to barding college to ask about local lore - what might they be up against
Cleric goes off to temple to pray for guidance on their upcoming adventures (read cast lots of divination spells, purchase medical supplies, and healing spells/potions)
Mage hits the library/magical school with a similar mission to the bards
Druid goes to talk with the local herbalist - local flora, fauna, herbs, etc.,.
Fighters wander down the local garrison to talk shop with the local militia forces
Thief heads to the thieves guild to pick up caltrops & marbles (in case they need to beat a retreat), tanglefoot bags for disabling opponents, flash bombs to be tossed into rooms in order to blind their occupants).

Maybe not high fantasy, but crap, lets run into a room filled with Medusae without a mirror. My saves are good. Are yours?

Edited by cirerrek, 21 May 2006 - 12:02 AM.


#17 Delight

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 01:24 AM

22. - The equal of the demigods.

:woot:
Isn't <CHARNAME> a demigod?
*Drools*

Edited by Delight, 21 May 2006 - 01:26 AM.

...

#18 Grim Squeaker

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 03:56 AM

22. - The equal of the demigods.

:woot:
Isn't <CHARNAME> a demigod?
*Drools*


No.
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#19 Delight

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 05:02 AM

Why?
...

#20 SConrad

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Posted 21 May 2006 - 07:33 AM

Being the son of a (any) God does not automatically grant you the status of "Demigod" in FR.

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