62 replies to this topic

[Azkyroth]

Please, try to colaborate together giving support to new modders. They always bring new and fresh ideas to this eternal-Baldur's Gate-world.

Yes, please do. On that note, does the "red_holy_might" animation from the deaths of the Battle Horror creatures in BG1 appear anywhere except hard-coded into the executable? Because I can't pull it out of any editing program...

[SimDing0]

They use something like ReallyForceSpellDead(Myself,RED_DEATH). Look up what that SPL is.

[Grunker]

It is very pathetic from a player point of view reading this posts. During a lot of years I have been playing this wonderful game and I will continue. When I first downloaded Kelsey, my first mod, I was surprised, he was like another bioware character! Since that day a lot of mods have been created, some of them are pieces of gold and some other pieces of trash, but all of them have to be respected because all of them are part of their creators mind, illusions and above all, time.
I can imagine Sikret's reaction to this battle. All of you great modders, imagine that in your first attempt to create something, you are insulted, you work depreciated and your unique petition, is absolutly ignored. I respected you all before all of this, now, after all I have read I continue respecting very few of you. Most of you have become Kings who rules the world because you have been modding since a lot of time.
I know nothing of modding, but is my intention to learn about it and if the time gets that I can start modding and need a place to host my mod, it is for sure that I will ask Baronius, BWL is one of the best comunities.
I know that this isn't the first war-between-modders, and that it will not be the last, but I had to say something. I may not be someone popular, I don't usually post, but everyday I visit all the comunities I can: CoM, SHS, BWL, PP, RPGdungeon, G3,... and in any of them, except here I've founded someone as intolerant as all the people who have blamed Sirkret and Baronius.
I don't care if my account is eliminated or if I cannot enter here anymore. There are a lot of ways to download mods. Bye! and MADURAR UN POCO!

Just one thing: IU is not such a fantastic mod, the question is that you were awfully anxious to attack Sirkret. Is so important that you can't play two mods together. I know what is to not be able to play two mods together an it is not the end of life. For example: how many people have been complaining about the fact that you can't take Sime (from TS) and Leina (from Nej). Is that the end of the world? Please!

Make Mods Not War

The players have spoken

[Kulyok]

Why do I prefer: "Hey, I just played this mod and (dis)liked it because of this and this" to "MADURAR UN POCO!", I wonder?

[Baronius]

Thank you for your thoughts, Magnus; if/when you have any more, I ask you to share them: I was reading these with great pleasure; you mentioned very important aspects, and mentioned things that are usually forgotten/overlooked today.

[Azkyroth]

Holy Might (white or red) is a projectile. It is hard-coded in both BG and BGII.

Someone took the time to make a separate white holy might BAM file, at least for BG2. Was hoping they'd make a red one. Ah, well, I remember what it looks like...and it's perfect... *rubs sensory tendrils together in anticipation*

Edit: And I've already checked for a .spl to match it; if there is one DLTCEP hasn't heard of it.

Edited by Azkyroth, 11 April 2006 - 03:21 PM.

[SConrad]

David,

There were a few things I've noted throughout this discussion, but have not had time to address:

BWL Terms of Use.

You've mentioned this several times now, but you do not seem to follow your own forum policy on other boards or even have respect for the rules which apply on other boards. According to my count, you've violated at least three of the points of the BWL ToU and two of the SHS guidelines in this thread alone.

Do you perchance perceive yourself to be 'above' any rules - including those you've constituted yourself?

What if I said: hmm I'll delete this and that mod from prefix reservations list (I maintain it!) or mark it as Global Conflict

Please don't compare the prefix reservations list with WeiDU, since the latter is immensely more fundamental to the modding community compared to the prefix list. If two prefixes was listed as a 'Global Conflict' or even deleted from the list, I doubt that would have any impact on anything. Banning mods from WeiDU, however, is a complete other matter.

Not that I think that is a good idea in any way, I just don't think it's comparable to the prefix reservations list.

(IEGMC isn't treated equally to DHDC at SHS. Long ago I contacted SConrad, asking if the text about DHDC in the Modding and Player Resource Centres could be extended the same way as iegmc; he said he would ask the author (SirKalt IIRC); later when I contacted him again, he said it was not his circle of authority which is true. Then I contacted the maintainer (SirKalt IIRC) about it, asking if "if you want your mod hosted at DHDC, please send an email to [address removed] etc." text could be added as well, in a similar way as the iegmc text. IIRC I got no reply. And why iegmc is pinned e.g. at SHS or PPG and no note on DHDC? I really don't care; it won't make my life better or worse. I brought up this case to SC long ago because he was talking about the neutrality of the new SHS etc., so I thought I would mention it to him. Neutrality means we remain neutral in a matter, and we don't give privileges to any side...)

Oh dear God, are you still pissed because DHDC doesn't cover as much space in the resource centres compared to IEGMC? I've told you countless times that I don't really have any control over the contents of those centres - I could, of course, but I don't want to. Sir Kalthorine is currently in Kuwait, and had to leave very suddenly - which explains his absence lately. Have you not considered that this might be the reason you never received an answer?

As for the eternal DHDC/IEGMC-debate, all I can say is that I think that the reason DHDC isn't treated equally is because the IEGMC is such a well-known and well-established download centre throughout the community. You wouldn't believe a freshly started community immediately would receive the attention SHS, PPG or G3 do? Or that a newly initiated search engine would get world-wide recognition, just like Google?

The fact that you are more likely to find SHS mods on the IEGMC than DHDC might have something to do with it, too. I'm just speculating that, though.

On a slightly unrelated (but on-topic) note; I think Magnus_025 made a lot of sense. I don't really have an opinion on the whole Anvil-question, except the fact that I think modders striving for incompatibility negates the whole point of community collaboration and working together. If Sikret now tries to fix the problems the mod had, then that's great, and I really don't have anything else to say on the matter. EDIT: Wait, I do, after some thought. This mod constantly reminds me of Anvil Chorus by Sammy Davis Jr. Great song, that.

[XCIX]

Argument Clinic

[Magnus_025]

Why do I prefer: "Hey, I just played this mod and (dis)liked it because of this and this" to "MADURAR UN POCO!", I wonder?

Well Kulyok, I'm sorry if putting something in my lenguage was a bit out of order. Some of you put things in your own language sometimes so i decided to do it myself. If you didn't understantd, I meant "grow up and quit behaving like children".
And, if you read my post I also said that I think that some mods are to be liked and some others to be disliked but I, personally, respect all of the authors. As I respect you for your wonderful Xan!

Thank you for your thoughts, Magnus; if/when you have any more, I ask you to share them: I was reading these with great pleasure; you mentioned very important aspects, and mentioned things that are usually forgotten/overlooked today.

I will probably start sharing my opinions more frequently!

And for all of you, sorry if sometimes my english is a bit weird, I'll try to improve it.

[AnnabelleRose]

I'd like to see you more active on the boards, Magnus_025.

[Grunker]

I'd like to see you more active on the boards, Magnus_025.

Yeah, the modders of this community could use some adult players to give them some resistance. It seems that some of us (me included, at times) are to busy "sucking up to the modders", so that we forget to give our truthful opinion from time to time

A welcome breath of fresh air.

[Baronius]

As we know, there is no doubt that we have severe differences in the principle of how to administrate a virtual forum, SConrad.

According to my count, you've violated at least three of the points of the BWL ToU

This is news. Does BWL ToU apply to SHS forums as well...?

and two of the SHS guidelines in this thread alone.

I'm sorry to hear that. You didn't inform me in PM which ones these are. If you do, I'll do my best to respect them next time.
(About my policy at BWL in these cases: When someone ignores a part of the ToU at BWL, I always inform him/her on PM. I think that both for the user and the forum, the best is if the user is told which guidelines were ignored by him/her, so he will not fall into the same mistake again. This is both the forum's and the user's interest.)

I would like to add, however, that you have spoken about BWL ToU much more than other people altogether, ever. You even seem to be following how I respect the BWL ToU on SHS forums... Wouldn't it be better if you just accepted how BWL's ToU is enforced, and how BWL is being administrated?
Except you and maybe two others, no one ever had any problem with BWL's administration. Several people expressed their disagreement regarding certain BWL rules (they're strict, they're not user-friendly), but accepted it, and our active forum members find the forum a useful and flourishing place. (One might say: "yes but if you changed this and that in your ToU, many more people would register!". Yes, maybe. But this is not our goal. BWL's goal differs from that.).

Please don't compare the prefix reservations list with WeiDU, since the latter is immensely more fundamental to the modding community compared to the prefix list. If two prefixes was listed as a 'Global Conflict' or even deleted from the list, I doubt that would have any impact on anything. Banning mods from WeiDU, however, is a complete other matter.

As I mentioned it originally, I compared them from one aspect, i.e. responsibility. Maintaining both of them, even if they aren't equally important (WeiDU is indeed a more fundemental thing), means responsibility. Some level of responsibility for the maintainer.

Not that I think that is a good idea in any way, I just don't think it's comparable to the prefix reservations list.

Usually, different things can be compared as well, from given aspect. As I said, my aspect was responsibility, and not their content or significance. (Since I've noticed that simple examples to clarify a problem are more effective on forums, here's an example for those who want one: "My car is faster than your dog." -- obviously a silly comparison aspect. However, "my car has the same colour as your dog's collar". is OK. I couldn't find a more apt example for the latter one, but this also reflects the point.)

I've told you countless times that I don't really have any control over the contents of those centres - I could, of course, but I don't want to. Sir Kalthorine is currently in Kuwait, and had to leave very suddenly - which explains his absence lately. Have you not considered that this might be the reason you never received an answer?

I didn't blame SirKalt for anything. Neither you, but you were talking about neutrality, that is why I brought it up to you. As I said, I actually don't care so much if the text is there or not.

The fact that you are more likely to find SHS mods on the IEGMC than DHDC might have something to do with it, too. I'm just guessing, though.

Yes it's true. But then your statement about neutrality isn't true, obviously. Neutrality means that all sides are treated equally, regardless which one we have better relationship with (or regardless which side we are affiliated with), for example.

As for the eternal DHDC/IEGMC-debate, all I can say is that I think that the reason DHDC isn't treated equally is because the IEGMC is such a well-known and well-established download centre throughout the community.

(1) DHDC is also a well-known and well-estabilished download centre, only certain people don't want to realise and accept it. (TheWizard. From the point DHDC started, he is constantly trying to use every opportunity to cause harm to DHDC in any way, because he couldn't and can't accept the fact that his IEGMC isn't in "monopoly" any more. Envy is eating him all the time, basically. For those who find these information new, I recommend checking one of my previous posts where I "reply" to TheWizard's post.)
I've never said IEGMC is better/worse than DHDC, or that DHDC is better than IEGMC etc. (Certain people, mainly TheWizard, tried to use this /useless and false/ argument as well when attacking DHDC. ). In fact, I never compared them. I think both are useful for players, some players prefer TheWiz's site, others prefer Dragonshoard. And when I say "DHDC is good", I'm just frank. We have right to say "my house is beautiful", don't we? I see no harm in that. I've never said "DHDC is better than x and y", after all.

You wouldn't believe a freshly started community immediately would receive the attention SHS, PPG or G3 do?

(2) Again, it does receive as much general attention as any of those sites. Yes, it hasn't got as many registered users/daily posts/number of mods. And? These would be a naive aspects to examine anything. We work on bigger projects (mainly), this is why we have less mods, and thus less visitors, for example.
It seems that you're comparing things in a respect which isn't really a good base of comparison. How do you measure 'attention'? For example, Avenger_TBG's comment might mean more appreciation to BWL than the "I luv yer mod!" remark of 100 players.

Still my hope is in BWL mods, as they actually try to take over bigger projects or try to explore the less known parts of the engine (like new animations, new gui, etc), unlike others.

I do not want to try to decide which site receives more attention, because the question of "From what viewpoint do we examine the 'attention'?" would prevent me from getting an answer.
(By the way, BWL /2004 summer/ isn't a freshly started community, at least in my interpretation. Yes, the other ones mentioned were started earlier, indeed. )
How will the community work together if we measure 'attention'? I think that SHS, CoM, G3, PPG, BWL, ... (not a complete list; I apologise to those who I didn't mention), all.. all of them are same important. Since mod and group traditions, individual relationships, different policy of forum administration etc. divides the entire 'community' of modders, ONE big community is just a naive ideal (one forum, shared resources etc.), BUT cooperation is very important. in fact, maybe the various differences between the aforementioned communities (SHS, CoM, G3, PPG, CoM, BWL,...) are what makes the modding nice from community aspect. We cooperate, yet we're different. (Like the principle of European Union: uniformism in economy /and other things/, while reserving the cultural differences. Perhaps this analogy is too brave, but I think it clarifies my point in some level.)
To sum up, I don't see why we should measure 'attention' or 'well-estabilishment'. As I said, the reason I brought up the DHDC/iegmc disproportion in the size of text, is that you had talked about the new SHS, its neutrality etc.

To sum up, I don't think it would do any good to the modding community if we argue about how we follow our own forum's Terms of Use on other forums, how much attention do the various sites ('communities') get, how long has a site been estabilished etc.

Edited by Baronius, 12 April 2006 - 08:27 AM.

[SConrad]

As we know, there is no doubt that we have severe differences in the principle of how to administrate a virtual forum, SConrad.

That much is obvious.

This is news. Does BWL ToU apply to SHS forums as well...?

Fortunately, not. Thank God for that.

My point was that I find it hypocritical that you choose not to follow your own rules of conduct on other forums.

I'm sorry to hear that. You didn't inform me in PM which ones these are. If you do, I'll do my best to respect them next time.
(About my policy at BWL in these cases: When someone ignores a part of the ToU at BWL, I always inform him/her on PM. I think that both for the user and the forum, the best is if the user is told which guidelines were ignored by him/her, so he will not fall into the same mistake again. This is both the forum's and the user's interest.)

I thought you just implied that the BWL rules didn't apply to SHS. Does that still mean I have to follow the BWL method of informing members of guideline breaches?

Oh, and for the record, the parts you've violated are:

- Posts containing abusive, flaming, trolling, spamming, harassing, threatening, vulgar, defamatory or hateful content are forbidden and will be dealt with by the staff.

- Try to keep on topic; please make sure that your post is contributing to the discussion.

I would like to add, however, that you have spoken about BWL ToU much more than other people altogether, ever.

Uh, no. I might have brought up the rules on BWL once or twice in the past, but for me to talk more about it than anyone else? Heck, you have talked more about the BWL ToU in this thread alone than I ever have. When thinking about it, you've probably talked more about the ToU in this thread compared to what I've talked about SHS Guidelines in the past year or so, too - which can be seen as another perspective of looking at pitying people who cares about forums and rules and bans.

You even seem to be following how I respect the BWL ToU on SHS forums... Wouldn't it be better if you just accepted how BWL's ToU is enforced, and how BWL is being administrated?

I don't expect anyone to follow rules applied to another forum here, but I do expect you to abide by the rules you seem to consider good forum conduct. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and all that. If you want people to act according to certain specified rules on your forum - wouldn't it be self-evident that you followed the same rules outside of BWL?

Except you and maybe two others, no one ever had any problem with BWL's administration.

How terribly naïve of you to say so. Lots of people have problems with your administration, just as lots of people (probably even more) have problems with my administration. That's just the way it is, but being an Administrator includes - in my point of view - that you're able to stick up for the ideals you present.

I didn't blame SirKalt for anything. Neither you, but you were talking about neutrality, that is why I brought it up to you. As I said, I actually don't care so much if the text is there or not.

Yet you saw fit to bring it up totally off-topic in this thread, when you don't even care about it? The logic of doing such a thing escapes me.

Yes it's true. But then your statement about neutrality isn't true, obviously. Neutrality means that all sides are treated equally, regardless which one we have better relationship with (or regardless which side we are affiliated with), for example.

Neutrality is one thing, proportion is another. IEGMC is larger and more established, so it's not really strange to see it having more space. In the best of worlds, of course, all mirrors on the planets would be equally listed, but they're not. For example, I might want my own private mod mirror up there with the IEGMC and DHDC, but it's not there - simply because it's too small and irrelevant for anyone to even care about it. We might not even be talking about favourism, here, but rather giving things the appropriate amount of attention it deserves. This is what I mean with proportion - Google gets more attention than the shitty little search engine.

(1) DHDC is also a well-known and well-estabilished download centre, only certain people don't want to realise and accept it. (TheWizard. From the point DHDC started, he is constantly trying to use every opportunity to cause harm to DHDC in any way, because he couldn't and can't accept the fact that his IEGMC isn't in "monopoly" any more. Envy is eating him all the time, basically. For those who find these information new, I recommend checking one of my previous posts where I "reply" to TheWizard's post.)

Oops, here we go again - harassment. Not very subtle.

(2) Again, it does receive as much general attention as any of those sites. Yes, it hasn't got as many registered users/daily posts/number of mods. And? These would be a naive aspects to examine anything. We work on bigger projects (mainly), this is why we have less mods, and thus less visitors, for example. [...][Long-winded description of BWL, comparing it to SHS, PPG and G3][...]

Read again, David. Did I ever mention BWL, or name any other community at all when I said "freshly started community"? In fact, I wonder how on earth you managed to apply that description to BWL - it's not really "freshly started", you know. I was speaking figuratively, about a newly started community which may or may not exist in reality. The type that has three members and an ambition to start working on a mod sometime next winter.

You immediately assumed I was speaking of BWL, though, which I find curious. You should be careful, or your tendency to get defensive might reach the levels of this guy.

To sum up, I don't see why we should measure 'attention' or 'well-estabilishment'. As I said, the reason I brought up the DHDC/iegmc disproportion in the size of text, is that you had talked about the new SHS, its neutrality etc.

Yes, because I have definitely brought up the SHS neutrality so many times in the numerous posts I've written in this thread.

[Creepin]

(TheWizard. From the point DHDC started, he is constantly trying to use every opportunity to cause harm to DHDC in any way, because he couldn't and can't accept the fact that his IEGMC isn't in "monopoly" any more. Envy is eating him all the time, basically. For those who find these information new, I recommend checking one of my previous posts where I "reply" to TheWizard's post.)

Surely it becomes all the more interesting.
I used to respect both you and TheWizard as wise, reasonable, reliable persons doing only good to our little community. Perhaps I wasn't aware of something, I hate politics after all and tend to ignore it whenever possible, but now, after your convincing discussion, I should admit that one of you should be spoiled lying bastard The only question is which one? Dammit, I really hate politics Why is it so necessary to drag all this shit in modding?

[Sir-Kill]

this guy.

Oh Please

[Baronius]

We get surprised many times in our lives, Creepin. Long ago, TheWizard and I were getting along well, he gave me good advice about how to set up stuff on server etc. Then everything changed immediately. It really surprised (and disappointed me) a lot that when we splitted (iegmc europe etc.), he immediately started to consider me as an enemy, to consider me as someone who has opposite interests as he. Just because we couldn't agree in something (this was detailed a lot on PPG forums...), and I decided to open an own download site. From this point, the "story" is known by everyone -- as its scene were the forums, due to TheWizard's efforts to involve the public.
All I can say is that the events and facts of the past prove all of my words in this matter (not just in this post, but in this thread, in this forum, and on all forums, everywhere.)

Why did I care about all this in the past? Because it had to do with BWL. People associated the discussions/debates with BWL. Otherwise, if it were only related to TheWizard and me personally, and no one would have connected it to BWL, I wouldn't have made as much effort to tell the truth behind these things as I did in the past.

Everyone can judge it, if cares, on his/her own. However, you don't have to. You don't have to deal with it, just enjoy the services provided by DHDC and IEGMC, and download the best mods.

[Yovaneth]

this guy.

Oh Please

He's discovered how to use a spell checker and a grammar editor. Mow we're in trouble.....

-Y-

[Azkyroth]

....

*takes a deep breath, pours each of the belligerents a nice hot cup of "shut the fsck up, answer my questions, and ignore the logical incompatibility of the preceding clauses."*

Well Kulyok, I'm sorry if putting something in my lenguage was a bit out of order. Some of you put things in your own language sometimes so i decided to do it myself. If you didn't understantd, I meant "grow up and quit behaving like children".

It's literally "to mature a little." Do I win anything? (BTW, what's with the infinitive form? )

I will probably start sharing my opinions more frequently!

Yes, do that. I appreciate everyone's feedback, even with people where we seem to rub each other the wrong way...

And for all of you, sorry if sometimes my english is a bit weird, I'll try to improve it.

You're doing fine, but if I see you form a plural with an apostrophe, you'll wish you'd never been born.

Yeah, the modders of this community could use some adult players to give them some resistance. It seems that some of us (me included, at times) are to busy "sucking up to the modders", so that we forget to give our truthful opinion from time to time

Another question: is there anything other than Infinity Explorer with the capacity to play BAM animations through, like animated GIF files? [EDIT] I haven't figured out how to make DLTCEP give me more than frame by frame.

Edited by Azkyroth, 12 April 2006 - 01:06 PM.

[Magnus_025]

....

*takes a deep breath, pours each of the belligerents a nice hot cup of "shut the fsck up, answer my questions, and ignore the logical incompatibility of the preceding clauses."*

Well Kulyok, I'm sorry if putting something in my lenguage was a bit out of order. Some of you put things in your own language sometimes so i decided to do it myself. If you didn't understantd, I meant "grow up and quit behaving like children".

It's literally "to mature a little." Do I win anything? (BTW, what's with the infinitive form? )

Yes, but in the moment I wrote my post I couldn't remember how was "Madurar" in english. I know it seems stupid but I simply couldn't remember. The infinitive form is a common gramatical mistake that we, spanish, generally talking, make. When talking to someone and wanting to give an order (like more or less I was trying) we tend to say the infinitive form (incorrect) insted of the verb finished in a "d", so I should have said "Madurad" instead of "Madurar".

I will probably start sharing my opinions more frequently!

Yes, do that. I appreciate everyone's feedback, even with people where we seem to rub each other the wrong way...

I'll do, but sometimes I don't understand what you are talking about (because I don't know anything about Mods, well, not anything, but very little, the basics, so I can't point someone to one direction or another and because of that I usually read instead of write. What happened to me this time is that I couldn't stay quiet.

And for all of you, sorry if sometimes my english is a bit weird, I'll try to improve it.

You're doing fine, but if I see you form a plural with an apostrophe, you'll wish you'd never been born.
Thanks, it means a lot, specially when I spent eight years of my life learning english. My parents spent a lot of money and I spent a lot of hours. I finished studying english at the age of 18, now I'm 26 and I try to keep what I learnt by listening a lot of english music and by spending a lot of time reading posts!
I'm a veterinarian and I wish to work in England, so I have to speak and write english correctly.

Yeah, the modders of this community could use some adult players to give them some resistance. It seems that some of us (me included, at times) are to busy "sucking up to the modders", so that we forget to give our truthful opinion from time to time

Another question: is there anything other than Infinity Explorer with the capacity to play BAM animations through, like animated GIF files?

Can't Near Infinity be used for that. I don't know if IE is the same as NI, but I used NI to solve the issue related to the monk animation in Icewind Dale 2. Hope that helps.

Is obvious that appart from english, I have to improve my posting skills. I don't know how to post quotes from different posts and this is the result= a little confusing reply.