62 replies to this topic

[AnnabelleRose]

Improved anvil shows promise, but as-is, I refer to it as either buggy or a total conversion (in the fact that you can only install it or a few minor mods that the author is too lazy to research into which ones are allowed)

Since it was suggested by one of the parties involed that there is not a "modding code of ethics" (be damned if I can find this one now ) I think we are free to proceed.

Let's not forget this:

5- In general, the incompatibility cases are really few, rare and negligible.

Since the author pretty much said that the following mods are "negligible":

Amber
Beyond the Law
Delainey
Kelsey ToB
Kivan and Deheriana
Neh'taniel
Sheena - Sadly this one is even hosted byt he same site no less....
The Longer Road
Weimer's Item Upgrade
...
Some other released and unreleased mods I am unaware of. Xan ToB among them, possibly.

(thanks for the list, kulyok!)

It seems everyone except for the author cares abotu compatability



... I thought it might work if we banded together to fix this mod. I don't know about everyone else, but when quite a few of these mods are staples and well established mods, there would be no harm in fixing another author's work. I view intentional incompatability as a bug.

Look, another quote:

I haven't seen anything such as "Hey Sikret, I'll make the changes instead of you, do you want me to?". Making a sacrifice for others, and for a community. This is what lacks in the current world. People are clever, love to comment stuff, and that's it. I don't doubt the importance of contructive criticism and suggestions, but as I said in one of my previous posts, not every post falls into the aforementioned categories.

Besides, seems fixing the mod is everyone's job but the author. Besides, the main people involved in making the mod are too busy sucking each other's d---- complimenting each other and ignoring any other questions, comments, and criticisms to do it themselves, I say we band together and re-release it.

Besides, I like this idea better then the alternative that was suggested modders having to participate in an add-on that is compatable with their mods in form of a patch for this mod.

Nonetheless, I repeat my offer. If authros of such mods want their item upgrade to be compatible with Improved Anvil, I will happily agree to add their items to Improved anvil if they contact me.

This mod as-is might as well be coded in .iap format. It's like we are traveling back in time to the pre-weidu days. When install orders, and compataibility threads (which do not exist in the case) were required.

[the bigg]

Why should we BLEEPing care about a BLEEPing item mod if the author is an BLEEP and wants his mod to be incompatible(*)? I'll just blacklist it from WeiDU and hold my peace. If he can be petty and delete posts willy-nilly, I'll advocate the same right to ban mods from WeiDU.

Still, fixing the mod would require, oh, just about an hour. No need for a comunity effort.

*: in the first post of his in the 'Questions?' thread, he said that his mod is incompatible with IU due to a conscious design decision.

[AnnabelleRose]

Even to make it fully compatable with Weimer's Item upgrade?

Just seems to be a slap in the face to him to use a tool he created to make a mod intentionally incompatable with his mod.

[the bigg]

Even to make it fully compatable with Weimer's Item upgrade?

WW-IU is badly coded, and making a mod compatible with it is not totally trivial (thread, check my posts), however there's a difference between "WW-IU is badly coded and making a mod compatible with it is not trivial" and "I hate WW-IU and will deliberately block it"

Just seems to be a slap in the face to him to use a tool he created to make a mod intentionally incompatable with his mod.

I didn't consider it under this light. I think I'll blacklist IA after all, at least for v192

[AnnabelleRose]

If I knew more about Weidu and could code it myself, the fixed version of the mod would allready be released and avilable for public download.

This is why I was stuck having to ask for help.

[Rabain]

In Sikret's defence he did not say that he hated IU, he stated that he did not want the components used in IU upgrades to be used by IU, so that they could be used in IA upgrades instead. Admittedly I do think his design plan for this was misguided.

Likewise with MTS comment about saying that some mods were negligible, Sikret didn't say that, he said the incompatibilities were negligible. His view I imagine was that only the item upgrade part of these mods would be affected, not considering that the authors of these mods would have included an item upgrade for a reason. Again he made some bad design decisions and could have done with some more planning before releasing IA.

@thebigg: threatening to block mods in weidu is heading down the same "petty" road you label Sikret with in your post above. Weidu was created by Weimer to make his own modding easier, it has become the preferred install tool for the community, it is open source and should be available to all regardless of poor design choices that some modders (new or otherwise) may make. Everyone appreciates the work you've done adding new features to Weidu and the last thing we want to see is someone else releasing an alternate version of Weidu that does not blacklist mods or using an older version free of that code. We can all start going backwards at that point.

[the bigg]

@thebigg: threatening to block mods in weidu is heading down the same "petty" road you label Sikret with in your post above. Weidu was created by Weimer to make his own modding easier, it has become the preferred install tool for the community, it is open source and should be available to all regardless of poor design choices that some modders (new or otherwise) may make. Everyone appreciates the work you've done adding new features to Weidu and the last thing we want to see is someone else releasing an alternate version of Weidu that does not blacklist mods or using an older version free of that code. We can all start going backwards at that point.

Heh, I know I don't have the karma to pull this off without permanent consequences, so this will probably be coded in my computer and sent to the 'conspirers' just to prove the point and then promptly removed before release

[jastey]

How do we say here: As long as children are playing they are in good health.

[SimDing0]

sucking each other's d----

Okay, this is funny. Now you know how I feel when I comment on mods.

However, as much as I think it's be entertaining to see what became of this (I know I'm usually very adamant that I don't want people playing around with my stuff if I say otherwise, but there IS a Quest Pack/BP compatibility patch floating around somewhere which I'm sufficiently happy with that I've put it in the new version), I put it to you that since the mod itself is really nothing special, it would be better use of time to just make a good item pack instead. (I've never been encouraging of the "resurrect every awful mod from 6 years ago and convert it to WeiDU" standpoint, and this is pretty similar.)

Heh, I know I don't have the karma to pull this off without permanent consequences, so this will probably be coded in my computer and sent to the 'conspirers' just to prove the point and then promptly removed before release

I think this is equally silly use of time, but at the very least, no accidental public releases of GayDU, please.

Edited by SimDing0, 07 April 2006 - 01:40 PM.

[the bigg]

I think this is equally silly use of time, but at the very least, no accidental public releases of GayDU, please.

The modder uses \ in a wrong position in banterpack\backup.

[Baronius]

Let's not forget this:


QUOTE
5- In general, the incompatibility cases are really few, rare and negligible.


Since the author pretty much said that the following mods are "negligible":

Amber
Beyond the Law
Delainey
Kelsey ToB
Kivan and Deheriana
Neh'taniel
Sheena - Sadly this one is even hosted byt he same site no less....
The Longer Road
Weimer's Item Upgrade
...
Some other released and unreleased mods I am unaware of. Xan ToB among them, possibly.

(thanks for the list, kulyok!)

It seems everyone except for the author cares abotu compatability

This is certainly false. I would like to remind everyone that most if not all of these mods will work if installed AFTER Improved Anvil. It is not equal to absolute imcompatiblity, which you imply everywhere. A bit difference isn't it?

Why should we BLEEPing care about a BLEEPing item mod if the author is an BLEEP and wants his mod to be incompatible(*)?

This is entirely false. As Sikret stated in one of his posts, he did his best to provide compatibility. (In case of Weimer Item Upgrade, it is not possible because he planned it as a replacement for that mod. The most important reason is that both mods modify many same items. A logical and good reason isn't it?)

Still, fixing the mod would require, oh, just about an hour. No need for a comunity effort.

Different modders have different experience, because they started to do modding in different times. If it really just takes one hour to someone more experienced, most people who posted in the BWL thread (or here) and demanded compatibility could have already made it compatible -- because the writing the content of the replies their posted, plus the time they were reading the topics, was much more than an hour. One hour (you said it would take this long), one hour to help a modder. Why wasn't it possible? (He clearly said that he DOES want compatibility if someone helps him) Why is it needed to spend many more hours with other stuff (such as threats that mod will be blocked from weidu etc), why? When, as you, theBigg has said, it would have taken only ONE HOUR... I leave the judgement to everyone in this matter, everyone can judge it on his own, and find an answer to "Why these people, competent/expert in such modding code matter, have hours to criticise (and attack) someone, when ONLY one hour would be needed to actually HELP?"

I'll just blacklist it from WeiDU and hold my peace. If he can be petty and delete posts willy-nilly, I'll advocate the same right to ban mods from WeiDU.

I think I'll blacklist IA after all, at least for v192

There is a bit difference between deleting posts on someone's OWN forum, and (ab)using the trust given by Weimer for your own personal affairs (such as not agreeing with a mod author's policy). Yes, you can now answer that not installing an incompatible mod is the interest of the whole community, but as you explained your motivation: "If he can be petty and delete posts willy-nilly, I'll... " which clearly clarifies that it's personal motivation, a revenge because "he could be petty and delete posts".
What if I said: hmm I'll delete this and that mod from prefix reservations list (I maintain it!) or mark it as Global Conflict, just because someone deleted/edited my post here and there... -- wouldn't be correct, and wouldn't be fair. Maintaning something is responsibility, and not a game.

Additionally, for everyone who felt some truth in my lines above, I advise to read Rabain's posts in this thread as well (in case you haven't read it yet). They contain several statements that I can fully agree with.

the main people involved in making the mod are too busy sucking each other's d---- complimenting each other and ignoring any other questions, comments, and criticisms to do it themselves

Sucking each other's d----. Nice statement.

Likewise with MTS comment about saying that some mods were negligible, Sikret didn't say that, he said the incompatibilities were negligible.

'Mods are negligible" and "incompatibilities are negligible" -- a 'bit' difference in the weight of the statement, isn't it? Twisting words is easy, but telling correct arguments isn't.

Tell me, MTS, was school education fully lost on you?

[Edit: gold old' grammar mistakes...]

Edited by Baronius, 11 July 2007 - 02:05 PM.

[SimDing0]

but if it really just takes one hour to someone more experienced, most people who posted in the BWL thread (or here) and demanded compatibility could have already made it compatible

...and had our posts deleted in the process, no doubt. Sorry, but I'm certainly not going to fix someone's mod if they're outright rude to me without provocation. Yes, I consider deleting meaningful posts extremely rude--I took the time to download the mod, look through it, and post my discoveries on the forum. This time was wasted when Sikret took it upon himself to remove the post, without even providing an explanation until I prompted twice for one.

Edited by SimDing0, 08 April 2006 - 07:50 AM.

[Baronius]

"Our" posts deleted in the process? Speak in your own name.
And no one said it was you who anyone expected to help Sikret. You consider it rude when someone deletes your post, but you aren't thinking before posting, you aren't considering how 'rude' the content of your post is. And then you intentionally provocated Sikret and me as well. If you want to help (or when you wanted to help), you should have learnt how to express your thoughts without being tactless (and then arrogant) to Sikret and others. By the way, Sikret deleted posts AFTER you and certain others went too far, and didn't complete his own requests on his own forum (which was not to post spoilers), plus then you started to be "silly" (you used this word when you were asked about what you were doing). And then you couldn't give any answer to my question "What rational goal are you trying to achieve by doing this?". Learn to respect others, and they will respect you. Learn to respect others' decisions, and they will respect yours.

Edit: and btw, the posts of most people who spent hours with this topic instead of spending one hour to help, weren't touched at all. So even they couldn't have the same reason not to help as you have.

Edited by Baronius, 08 April 2006 - 08:12 AM.

[SimDing0]

plus then you started to be "silly"

This is correct. If you are going to operate your forum like a farce, I will treat you as the joke you are.

[Creepin]

2MTS

I believe you're overreacting to this situation a bit. If a modder deliberately choose to create some "IU-killer", it's his right to do so, if he does choose to compose his mod in such way that only one of IU and IA could be installed at a time, it's also his right to do. You are not accusing Compton for creating his version of Nalia romance while there's Arnel's version long since released after all, right?

In the end, it's just a good old "don't like it - don't install it". I think that saying that your work kills the work of someone else is worst possible way to promote your own mod, but it's also choice that should be left to an author. What choice is left for the rest of us is to play it or not. I personally will never even think about "replacing" IU with some other stuff, though I'm all for "adding" to IU.

P.S. Do you remember how many "Diablo2-killers" was released since D2? Where are they now? I'm sure that "IU-killers" will follow the same way, but if someone want to try it - why not, it's their own time they spend, not yours. Just ignore it, like all decent people do

Edited by Creepin, 08 April 2006 - 09:46 AM.

[Baronius]

This is correct. If you are going to operate your forum like a farce, I will treat you as the joke you are.

No one else seemed to be acting like you in those threads. I operate BWL forum in the way I feel it to be the best for our visitors and members, regardless of your immature moronic behavior. Sikret operates his IA forum the way he wants.
It really won't matter to me (and no, it won't be emberassing) if you make your account blocked on BWL. As I said at BWL, I don't care if it's you or anyone else, I make no exception when someone violates BWL Terms of Use.

Edited by Baronius, 08 April 2006 - 10:05 AM.

[Avenger_teambg]

Heh, it is fun that you peeps always find a reason to fight instead of modding.
The Bigg apparently got lots of unused energies, what about using this free potential for fixing/improving weidu?

[jastey]

Heh, it is fun that you peeps always find a reason to fight instead of modding.

That's the best comment on all boards I've read for several days.

[SimDing0]

No one else seemed to be acting like you in those threads.

Quite true. I was the first person to try telling anyone what the mod did.

I operate BWL forum in the way I feel it

This does not make it any less of a farce.

to be the best for our visitors and members

I am a visitor and I do not believe your operation is beneficial to me.

(and no, it won't be emberassing)

You're right. This can't really get any more embarassing.

if you make your account blocked on BWL.

Hey, cool. Can I get some feedback from the rest of THE BLACK WYRM COUNCIL regarding your policy on banning people for revealing what your mods do?
(That's real feedback, not you telling me what they think. )

Edited by SimDing0, 08 April 2006 - 10:43 AM.