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Differences between BGT and TUTU


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#1 -Nimrod-

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 12:12 AM

Can someone please explain what the difference between BGT and TuTu is? I know that the new BGT is now fully WeiDU, but it seems that people are still making mods for TuTu, and that confuses. Thank you.

#2 Thauron

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 01:07 AM

Well, the basic difference is the transition from BG1 to BG2 BGT offers.

TUTU converts BG1 to the BG2 engine, yet keeps BG1 as a completely different game - you will be able to import your TUTU character manually into SOA as was possible before but nothing more. TUTU can be played whether you own TOTSC or not.

BGT converts BG1 to the BG2 engine and merges BG1, TOTSC (yes, TOTSC is required for BGT), SOA and TOB into one big game. This means:
- after Sarevok is defeated your main character will be automatically transferred to BG2 and the game will just continue as if BG1 and BG2 are just two chapters of one big game.
- at the start of BG2 the 'state' of your party-NPCs will be taken into account - this means:
1. if f.e. Minsc was killed during BG1, no Minsc in Irenicus' prison.
2. if you would have increased the stats of some of your NPCs (say raised Imoen's INT by one) these NPCs will reappear in BG2 with the stats (and weapon proficiencies,...) you gave them in BG1.
- with some other mods you will be allowed to transfer some more BG1 NPCs to Irenicus' dungeon (just like Imoen, Jaheira and Minsc before) with new BG2 dialogue and character - Shar-teel f.e. thanks to Vlad.
- because BG1 and BG2 are merged into one big game - you will be allowed to install some big BG2 mods on top of your BGT install - you could f.e. install TDD and thus enjoy all the TDD kits right from the start in BG1.

Some people might still claim TUTU or BGT runs smoother, is more error-free, is graphically better than its counterpart, but I think that's utter rubbish.

I hope this is somewhat clear

#3 Ascension64

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 01:38 AM

To be really short, TuTu and BGT-WeiDU do the same thing. TuTu is a little more traditional in style (makes a more faithful conversion), while BGT-WeiDU is more of like a progressive/adaptionist style.

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Contributions: (NWN2) A Deathstalker (voice acting) - (IWD2) IWD2 NPC Project (soundset editing) - (Misc) SHS PC Soundsets (voice acting)
Legacy: (BG/Tutu/BGT) Beregost Crash Fixer 1.9 (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Enable conversations with charmed/dominated creatures (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Experience Corrections (18 Jul 10) - (Misc) Platform Conversion Utility RC2 (13 Feb 10)


#4 -Avian-

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Posted 07 April 2006 - 11:42 PM

I find there are many aspects of each that are handled differently between the mods, where the author has had a different opinion as to how something in particular should be handled. It would be best just to try both and see which one you feel does a better job at conversion.

Personally i like BGT better, seems to be more stable... just need to turn the thieving exp gains down. I was level 3 by the time i left candlekeep and level five at bergost, hehe.

#5 Sir BillyBob

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 05:26 AM

It has been stated several times here to go download SimDing0's mod for XP tweaking. Don't go blaming BGT, these are the XP amounts you get for SoA which assumed you wouldn't be at level one (since you always start at level 6 or higher). Sim's mod corrects this problem.

A64, you might want to lock down this topic before we see another flame war about Tutu vs BGT.

Tired of Bhaal? Try some classics mods instead:
Classic Adventures
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#6 SimDing0

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 06:39 AM

That would be possibly the most pre-emptive locking ever.
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#7 Ascension64

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 06:19 PM

I agree with Sim here. Not once did I find an implication of a generalised statement of which one is better. And of course the right answer is "None of them are better". :)

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#8 Salk

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Posted 08 April 2006 - 10:35 PM

Salk is trying to restrain the urge of saying that the Merger will be better... :cheers:

Edited by Salk, 08 April 2006 - 10:36 PM.


#9 Styphelus

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:06 AM

Well...after giving BGT a serious try last month, I have to say I went back to TUTU. I just found way too many bugs with the current version of BGT. And the lack of nice and proper intro screens and menus made it look cheap as well. It all started with Kivan's dialogue at the beguining, than the inability to pick up Ajantis from the start, some are crashes followed and a few weeks later I had enough.

Sorry to poor cold water on BGT but it's true.

So I went back to TUTU and installed Easy Tutu since it creates a completly independent version of Tutu and that has been running really well. Not one single bug so far and I've made it all th way to Warewolf Island so far. It looks like a game on it's own and you would never know it's actually a mod.

BGT does have potential but as it currently stands, I would say Easy-TUTU is the best option at the moment.

When BGT fixes it's problems than I'll probably switch.

Just a question, When the transition happens, do you take your current characters with you? And if Boo is not in the cell, who replaces him?

#10 Grunker

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 10:14 AM

That would be possibly the most pre-emptive locking ever.


Exactly. This is the first 'clean' threat about this topic. T'would be a shame to lock it down instead of letting it stand a shiny example to the fact that modders actually can keep a decent tone ;)

Salk is trying to restrain the urge of saying that the Merger will be better... :cheers:


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#11 Salk

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:20 AM

Styphelus,

the amount of bugs fixed in version 1.00 is pretty big and the number of improvements are documented in the latest readme file. I don't believe it's fair to report the experience had with an obsolete version. Today BGT is stable and has no major bugs reported. The thread of confirmed bug up hereis in fact still empty.

According to me, the biggest problem of BGT is the incompatibility with BG1 Mods. I, for instance, would like to install Dudleyfixes but I can't do it on BGT.

Anyway EasyTuTu is really a good reinterpretation of TuTu and MacReady is doing a marvellous job in supporting TuTu.

Nevertheless, my future hopes lay on the collaboration of great minds... :cheers:

Edited by Salk, 11 April 2006 - 11:21 AM.


#12 Styphelus

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 11:45 AM

My bad. I didn't realize there was a new release of BGT.

But I have to ask, have the intro screens been updated as well? It would be nice to start the game and see Baldur's Gate trilogy and Throne of Bahal instead of references to BG2. I'm a perfectionist, what can I say?

Easy Tutu does a really good job when it comes to this.

Maybe I'll give BGT another try. Seems like the issues I was complaining about were all solved.

#13 Sir BillyBob

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 01:47 PM

I agree with Sim here. Not once did I find an implication of a generalised statement of which one is better. And of course the right answer is "None of them are better".

My hope was for you to stop what you now see happening. Too late...

Tired of Bhaal? Try some classics mods instead:
Classic Adventures
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#14 SimDing0

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 02:16 PM

Yes, there's something horrific about the prospect of people actually reporting their experiences rather than plumping for the regular, politically correct "well, they do the same thing, each to their own!" :)

I don't say this purely because it favours Tutu in this instance. It's nice to have a real account of the distinction, although yes, it's a shame if it's outdated as you suggest.
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#15 Ascension64

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 04:43 AM

Would've made an interesting 'General Revelry' topic...'Breathe fire on BGT and Tutu'. Joke, of course. :)

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#16 -Roadkill-

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 08:17 AM

Call it resurrecting an old topic, but at least it's still about the same thing ^^;

I've been wanting to install both BGT and EasyTutu. Since EasyTutu (as was mentioned by Thauron) pretty much leaves BG1 and BG2 alone, this would mean it really wouldn't matter what i did to the games after EasyTutu has finished installing.

However, this is where my question comes up. I am a noob, plain and simple. Too many numbers make my head spin, i panic at the mention of the 'E-word' (Edit) and code... might as well be sanskrit as written by a mad chicken gone amok in an ink factory (dibs if you know where the quote's from).

Anyway, i've been to Pocketplane's forums as well, and asked for the correct installation order for what i wanted on EasyTutu. So, what i'd like is confirmation to see if the following list is good to go:
  • Baldur's Gate (full install)
  • BG: Tales of the Sword Coast (full install)
  • Baldur's Gate II (full instal)
  • BG2: Throne of Bhaal (full install)
  • Official Patch Galore
  • EasyTutu (latest)
  • Tutufix v.17
  • BG1NPC v11 (requires Tutu)
  • BG1: Unfinished Business (Tutu version planned, but not yet released)
  • BG2: Unfinished Business v2
  • EasyTutu Degreenifier v4
  • EasyTutu Spawn Randomiser v2
Then, unleash the following on my official game folders:
  • BaldurDash English-Language Game Text Update v1.2 (not sure if i need this: placed first to avoid problems)
  • Dark Side of the Sword Coast v1.81 (Weidu)
  • North Side of the Sword Coast v1.42 (WeiDu)
  • Shadows over Soubar v1.10 (WeiDu)
  • The Darkest Day v1.10 (WeiDu)
  • Baldur's Gate Trilogy v.1.00 (WeiDu)
  • BaldurDash v1.5 (WeiDu)
  • BaldurDash Fixpack v1.12 (SoS compatible)
Now... My question is, would this work if i installed it all in this order, would my computer format my hd or would my head explode from the error messages?

((NOTE: I already asked on the EasyTutu forums about the first list, and it should work. The second, however, includes heavy modding and is something i want to be sure about before being forced to uninstall/reinstall everything))

And before anyone asks, i'm installing both for replay value: The mods i'm unleashing on BGT will ensure a bunch of new quests i didn't get in my first playthrough ;)

Thanks for the help in advance ^^;

#17 Azazello

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Posted 27 May 2006 - 11:44 AM

Call it resurrecting an old topic, but at least it's still about the same thing ^^;

Actually, it's not.
What you're asking for you could have found by reading some of the posts in different foums. Takes work, yes, but the effort would have payed off.

... My question is, would this work if i installed it all in this order ...

http://www.shsforums...showtopic=18294
http://www.shsforums...showtopic=20357
http://www.shsforums...showtopic=19826
http://www.shsforums...showtopic=19539
http://www.shsforums...showtopic=20240

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#18 -Roadkill-

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Posted 30 May 2006 - 03:01 PM

More than you would think, actually... I went through a number of threads, but i just ended up getting more confused as i kept reading.

...
2) NEJ2v42 + NEJ2v602 patch, and NEJ2 biffer if using BP-weidu (but see *note)
3) SoS v1.10/TDD v1.10/CtB v1.7 - in any order (but note: NEJ2 and CtB are not compatible atm: choose one or the other)
4) TS-BP v6.04.01
5) BGT-WeiDU v1.00, and NeJ2-BGT compat patch if using both NEJ2 and BGT
...


Wah? Biffer? And what do you mean, if using BP-weidu? Wasn't i supposed to download weidu versions for everything here?

The second link had a logfile attached... That i couldn't make sense of. I mean... I'm a casual gamer, and i don't know the first thing about code, me editing stuff is limited to PhotoShop only (everything else just makes me nervous).

All one needs to do is take one of the smaller batch files, save it to a working location, then right click on it and "edit" to open it, then delete everything that is in it and copy and paste the appropriate code from the attached word doc into it, and then "save as" whatever you want to call it.


As you may have guessed, that didn't help me much either. I mean, do i have to manually replace a file here? What stuff falls under the 'one of the smaller batch files' category?

The third i actually came across several times thus far. Unfortunately, even though it (apparently) makes everything that needs to be done quite clear, i have no clue as to what .TP2 files are, what they're supposed to do or how i'm going to manage all of that without breaking the installation.

That, and it's filled with all kinds of stuff about editing setup files and removing and replacing lines and such. And 'biffing' again.

Other links you gave include more of the same: Stuff that all makes everything sound like it's basic knowledge (and, knowing me, it probably is), and then some stuff on TDD, that apparently fills up all the Kit slots. So in case a Mod i want to install happens to have a Kit, i get an installation error on somesuch?

Basically, the only thing i DID manage to figure out was that all the Mods i wanted to install post-Tutu are compatible with BP-weidu. Yay me.

Let me say this again: I am an installation noob. The type of person for whom 'Installing something' means they sit behind a screen holding a CD/DVD/whatever until the computer asks for it. And if there's an error, the extent of their abilities is 'looking for a patch somewhere'.

What i want is to know if the order i'm trying to install everything in won't cause any problems, without having to end up doing something i'm not used to just to get it to work.

Appreciate the stickies and everything, but i guess i'm just more noobish than most out there.

#19 melkor_morgoth75

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 01:39 AM

Let me say this again: I am an installation noob. The type of person for whom 'Installing something' means they sit behind a screen holding a CD/DVD/whatever until the computer asks for it. And if there's an error, the extent of their abilities is 'looking for a patch somewhere'.

What i want is to know if the order i'm trying to install everything in won't cause any problems, without having to end up doing something i'm not used to just to get it to work.


OK ... so if that is your situation, choose JUST 1 mod ... ONLY 1 and you will be 99% sure you won't have any problem and can play beautifully ;)

Avoid installing lot of mods 'cause it would lead you to some possibile future problems you cannot face/resolve,

mm75

Tired of the same boring spawned creatures u face in BG? Try BGSpawn


#20 Azazello

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Posted 31 May 2006 - 10:56 AM

The main issue I have with your post (apart from the OTHER issue of you posting in a thread that has nothing to do with your question) is that you want us to do your homework for you, but you're not willing to give us something in return. Give us a candybar, or a Euro, or ask your sister if she would go on a date with us, or something.

If you have read thru a lot of posts, you've seen a lot of other n00bies also had similar questions, similar reservations, similar self-deprecation. OK. The difference between them and you is that they made an effort to at least try working with what they know, and then came to the boards to ask for help.

We cannot hold your hand thru this. It would be an insult to those of us who do/did the work: we play, we try stuff, we make mistakes, we come here or other boards and ask for help (most of the time we SEARCH first...).

All of us were n00bs. Unfortunately the boards where you could read my n00biness are gone ("Seriously, Your Honor, I had nothing to do with that!" :whistling: ), but I had plenty of embarassing questions and comments. Ya live thru it, you know? But eventually you earn your creds, you can then ask any question you want, people will help because they see you went thru the same process as they did.

If you really are having so much trouble with the instructions in the links, you're not ready for heavily modded BG games. You may not be ready for ANY modded game. You are definitely not ready for BGT or BP. Don't go there.

This is OK. You have to start at the beginning. We all did. These instructions are really the bare minimum for running large modded games. Many of the concepts are really basic; admittedly, some others are simple (not easy) if you've been playing for, well, years.

So my guidance to you is this:

As a casual player, you should get your BG1 discs (BG2 if you don't have BG1), install the game afresh. No mods. Not even Balderdash. Play. Enjoy. Bask in the glory that is an unfettered BG game.

You're allow one extra tool - get one of the Walkthroughs and follow along on the adventures. Dan Simpson's walkthrus are premier, none better, IMO. You can find them at Sorcerer.net (Sorcerers.net) You will learn so much just from the walkthrus. I still use them.

While you're playing, READ the forums. Just read. And learn. Don't ask a question until you've searched on the topic, and either understand it but need more knowledge, or are so confused you just need to know. (Biffing is waaay too complicated to study at this stage.) And be sure to post in the right foum or thread.

This will prepare you for the next stage of Life...
Once you've got thru your virgin game, install Balderdash (a must), then ONE mod. Just like melkor_morgoth75 wrote. One, no more, no less. Read the mod's help file, things like compatiability issues, potential bugs, etc. Play. Enjoy.

You'll then be ready for the next stage of Life...
By this time, you should know about all the mods you really wanted to play, where to get them, how to install them, etc. Do so. Install. Play. Enjoy.

And be ready to come back for more questions! Check my recent posts, you'll see that even after all these years of playing BG, I still have questions. I still get things wrong. I may still ask stupid questions, but I no longer ask dumb questions. Ohh yeah, I'm a gamer now...

Nothing wrong with being a n00b. Been there. Nothing wrong with making mistakes. Done that.

Time to stop posting and to go play. That goes for all of us.