105 replies to this topic

[Duality]

Well, Hlid gave his ok so I guess I'll be working on the Planar Sphere Mod.
Post any suggestions/problems here and I'll work on them.

But first;
A number of the BAM's are overly large, and the Pain Shard's BAM is corrupted. Does anyone else have this problem or is it somehow tied to my using a Mac?

I've already gone through and fixed a number of text issues.
The BAM's and item testing are next on the list. As I have found a couple of items that don't quite work right.

[SimDing0]

Do something about the whole Melanthium storyline. It's unfortunate at best.

[Duality]

Do something about the whole Melanthium storyline. It's unfortunate at best.

Thanks, that was helpful.

[XCIX]

This is actually one of my favorite mods, despite the over-the-top ]hopefully tongue-in-cheek main storyline because it brought more life to a potentially interesting place/thing in the game. All of the strongholds were less than they could have been and this at least made one of them more interesting.

There were some major mod killing bugs in the main quest, I hope they have been/will be fixed. I also have often wondered if the new spells introduced by the mod work as described. Would making the planar sphere available to non-arcane sorts (ie everyone else) be possible?

Thanks, by the way, for taking up the baton with this mod. Your work on it will not go to waste, at least in my tiny corner of the computerland.

Thanks again.
XCIX

[Duality]

I'm glad someone else likes this mod as much as I do.

This is actually one of my favorite mods, despite the over-the-top ]hopefully tongue-in-cheek main storyline because it brought more life to a potentially interesting place/thing in the game. All of the strongholds were less than they could have been and this at least made one of them more interesting.

I agree. All of the strongholds disappointed me. Although, the expanded thief stronghold is fun, and hopefully, jcompton's Nalia romance will improve the fighter stronghold.

But I digress, My real problem with the main PS plot is that it makes absolutely no sense at all. Someone who's powerful enough to simultaneously seal all the gods in their planes, strip Mystra of all her power AND weave a spell to obliterate EVERYTHING in existance has to hold his power in spell globes so that he can be defeated by you?
That's silly.
But I'm having trouble figuring out how to make it more coherent. A great plot writer I am not.


As for the humor

"If I wanted to listen to yer yip, ye prissy elf, I'd pull ye over my knee and smack yer bottom. At least then I'd have meself something interesting to do while ye blathered on."
"Eeep!"
I love that exchange.

A mod that takes itself too seriously is not a mod that is worth playing.

Hopefully by now I've found most of the remaining truely nasty bugs. You can no longer die during cut-scenes for instance

The only problem with allowing non-mages to get the quest is that, once again, it wouldn't make much sense, but also that it would grant multiple strongholds. If that's all you want you can install the multiple stronghold component of Ease. I don't *think* that that component interferes with this mod, but I haven't tested it.

As for the spells, I believe that Hlid (either that or Inferno's un-released patch) fixed most of them. I haven't done very thorough testing on them yet though. (which reminds me, I have to put them on the sorcerers available spell list at some point)

I'm almost done converting all the spell/items/cres/dialog/bcs files into a more coherent naming set, so that I can actually FIND things when I am trying to edit them. (Having cre #56 using bcs #76, dialog #12 and a death variable of kaypala makes it somewhat difficult to find things)
Once that's done and I've found most of the bugs that I created while doing that, I have some new content to add. That should take a week or two all told. Once that's done, I'll release it and work on making the main story line coherent.

[seanas]

whilst i dont want to deter anyone from modding, especially anyone bug fixing, there's not much point trying to fix the plot of PSQ: it's completely over the top, and utterly irredeemable really from the point of view of 'balanced game play' or anything like that. i really enjoy PSQ, but it's because it's cheesy and over the top: it's not like yr going to find any new converts by creating a grimy, neo-realist version of PSQ or anything: you'd be better off, if you want to do this, by creating a new mod riffing off the PSQ storyline (you've got permission from hlid, after all), or just disabling the melanthium quest entirely and leaving the rest in place.

from my perspective, i'd suggest: re-scripting the final fight scene so that melanthium doesn't cheat so egregiously (i always carry the cheese to avoid the tedium of this battle); fixing any bugs or grammatical errors you find; and maybe, if yr inclined, nerfing some of the items and XP rewards.

other than this, re-writing the PSQ plot is like re-writing TDD: a thankless task, and one best avoided if at all possible.

[Duality]

*sigh*
You are probably right. But I don't like it. I do so like this mod.
I have a plot that interests me in mind, but I'm having trouble changing the PS plot to fit it. There's too much.. weirdness in PS.
But I find it depressing to think of starting totally from scratch.

Most of the grammatical errors have been fixed, as well as most of the bugs that I knew about/could find.
Fixing Mel's/Vecna's AI scripts are next on the list to be fixed. The scripts for the final battle are... absurd? Maybe I'll just go ahead and say it; they are completely retarded. I've never seen a scripts that moronic.

There are a number of variables, and 10 or so scripts. Once he casts a set of spells, he changed scripts based on variables being set. Changing scripts takes a few seconds, at best. This can cause all sorts of stupidity from him. I've had him sit in the middle of the room, doing nothing, until his protections wear off and I can go up and wack him. While he still does nothing. But of course he doesn't die, because he hasn't gotten to the final script that enables the cutscene.
*sigh*
It's one of those things that looks good until you actually try and apply it to the BG2 engine.

[seanas]

There are a number of variables, and 10 or so scripts. Once he casts a set of spells, he changed scripts based on variables being set. Changing scripts takes a few seconds, at best. This can cause all sorts of stupidity from him. I've had him sit in the middle of the room, doing nothing, until his protections wear off and I can go up and wack him. While he still does nothing. But of course he doesn't die, because he hasn't gotten to the final script that enables the cutscene.

tell me about it - i was thinking about doing it myself at one point, until i realised what i nightmare it is: it's basically one long cutscene, except the player retains control of the interface and the party can all die. a lot. eventually i settled on re-writing two of the cutscenes so that you could get some of the quest rewards by throwing the cheese...

[hlidskialf]

There are a number of variables, and 10 or so scripts. Once he casts a set of spells, he changed scripts based on variables being set. Changing scripts takes a few seconds, at best. This can cause all sorts of stupidity from him. I've had him sit in the middle of the room, doing nothing, until his protections wear off and I can go up and wack him. While he still does nothing. But of course he doesn't die, because he hasn't gotten to the final script that enables the cutscene.

tell me about it - i was thinking about doing it myself at one point, until i realised what i nightmare it is: it's basically one long cutscene, except the player retains control of the interface and the party can all die. a lot. eventually i settled on re-writing two of the cutscenes so that you could get some of the quest rewards by throwing the cheese...

Now you know why I never busted a nut trying to rescript the bloody thing. I just added a few personal cheeses and had at 'er. To be honest I only played through it once. Although I have a pack around here somewhere of the spells gutted from PSM for normal use.

[SimDing0]

Do something about the whole Melanthium storyline. It's unfortunate at best.

Thanks, that was helpful.

I'm serious. I don't see why it's not a helpful suggestion. There's potential in the rest of PSQ, such as the basic expansion of the Sphere itself. It's purely the main story which is unsalvageable. (I've toyed with stronghold expansion for Quest Pack, but I have yet to really think about it seriously.)

[Duality]

Well, saying something sucks without saying why or offering coherent criticism isn't terribly helpful. But maybe that's just me.
I know the main PS story line is absurd. But some people like it that way, and those who don't, well, they don't play it. After all, we all need a little light (absurd) humor at times.

The real problem with separating out the main quest from the rest of PS is that there isn't much left when you do. A few minor quests, some item forging (that has never worked as far as I know, but that I WILL get working) and that's about it. Thus, taking out Mel and his antics would entail writing a whole new central plot, something which I don't intend to do. At that point I might as well just make a whole new mod.

If someone actually intended to make a mod that expands all the strongholds, I would probably be happy to send them the Planar Sphere expansion piece of the mod, and move Mel's quest to another area. Thus separating out the two. But until that happens, I'm going to stick to my original plan of fixing the few buzzillion remaining bugs (I just realized yesterday, that if you talk to any of the NPC's after they give you a quest, but without completing, very weird things tend happen), changing the naming conventions so that you can actually FIND things, and adding a some new content.

Actually, I'd like to see someone write a mod that expands all of the strongholds, perhaps combining the thief stronghold expansion mod, and the less silly parts of this mod with whole new content. But I'm not interested enough to write it myself. (besides, I already have my next project in mind)

If anyone has suggestions for additions, I'd be happy to hear them. In fact, please share them. But as for changing the whole mod, I'm not going to destroy PS. I do after all, like it the way it is. (This might be telling, but my favorite parts of the normal game are the truly absurd ones, like Sylvanas.)

-Duality

Edited by Duality, 08 April 2006 - 11:34 AM.

[SimDing0]

Well, saying something sucks without saying why or offering coherent criticism isn't terribly helpful. But maybe that's just me.

You know why it sucks, as does everybody else (evident from this thread alone). I don't need to reiterate why.

Actually, I'd like to see someone write a mod that expands all of the strongholds, perhaps combining the thief stronghold expansion mod, and the less silly parts of this mod with whole new content.

This has been my consideration, yes.

[SimDing0]

Well, perhaps that should have been, coherent suggestions instead of coherent criticism.

There's nothing "incoherent" about suggesting removing content. Perhaps you mean "suggestions you like" instead?


Incidentally, an utterly irrelevant anecdote for anyone who cares is that my first significant bit of modding ever (yes, even before the stripdowns!) was trying to fix the dialogue in PSQ using IDU. (So no, it isn't like I completely hate it--I saw enough potential to try and put in work to fix it.) It never saw the light of day, however, and the experience of IDU put me off further modding attempts for several months.

Edited by SimDing0, 11 April 2006 - 09:37 AM.

[Duality]

Well, perhaps that should have been, coherent suggestions instead of coherent criticism.

There's nothing "incoherent" about suggesting removing content. Perhaps you mean "suggestions you like" instead?

Suggesting removal without suggesting any sort of replacement is what I was referring to. Or perhaps it is just suggestions I like.

What's IDU?
And for that matter what are/were stipdowns?

In case it wasn't apparent, I am relatively new to the modding community. Although I have played and warped BG2 and other peoples mods (for my own entertainment) for years.

A tiny progress report:
I finally got one of the areas back to being editable (I still don't know what originally caused it, but it seems to have been something with the original uploaded .rar file) and while I haven't had time to work much on it in the last few days, this weekend I should finish the new content/most of the testing. But that's assuming that everything goes well. Which isn't likely.

[XCIX]

Does PS have a silly story? Yes.
It PS make any sense at all? No.
Is PS so completely over the top it's absurd? Yes.
Is the whole thing incredibly bizarre? Yep.
Do I love it because of or in spite of these flaws? Because of.

I second this wholeheartedly. To me the planar sphere mod is like the particular mod-maker who frequently will opine coherently and, arguably, incoherently on these forums: excess of personality. Excess of personality has its drawbacks for some people's point of view but lack of entertainment value isn't usually one of them. I am glad that it seems to be settled that the main plot will not try to be redeemed from it's "excess of personality". Joseph Campbell once said that “What each must seek in his life never was on land or sea. It is something out of his own unique potentiality for experience, something that never has been and never could have been experienced by anyone else.”

Also, thanks for the progress report, Duality. I have a question, assuming the main quest is left as is as far as plot and storyline and bug fixes are applied, will that also mean the egregious cheese/cheating devices (scripts?) will be removed as well? Will this reduce the challenge or is there a way to make the mod still challenging without them?

[SimDing0]

Suggesting removal without suggesting any sort of replacement is what I was referring to. Or perhaps it is just suggestions I like.

Either way, you're still misusing "incoherent".

What's IDU?

Infinity Dialogue Utility. Before WeiDU (and in some cases after), this was what people used. And it was not good.

And for that matter what are/were stipdowns?

Ah, the stripdowns. They were my first project at TeamBG--the idea was that you removed all resources from the game and left only the bare essentials required for the engine to run. The reason? To make it easier for people to create total conversions (it didn't anyway, but that wasn't the main reason it was a silly idea). I spent a regrettable amount of time fucking around with these when I was, like, 14. It was a reasonable introduction to the finer points of how the IE works, but so, so pointless.

Anyway, I apologise for trying to take over this thread and talk about my modding history. I wish you luck working with PSQ.

[Duality]

incoherent:

adj, 1: without logical or meaningful connection; 2: unable to think or express your thoughts in a clear or orderly manner; 3: unable to express yourself clearly or fluently.


Check #1: Removing content. No clear or meaningful connection to the current argument. By itself, it means nothing, without elaboration it means nothing. What is "the Melanthium storyline"; the entire mod, as most everything that happens relates to Mel? Just Mel escaping and trying to obliterate everything? What about the Lady and Mystra, the various other encounters tied directly to Mel, should they be removed as well?


Ok, so I
a: am splitting hairs and
b: seem to have too much free time on my hands.
c: And for C, well, lets just say I am insane.

Any other digressions that you think we should partake of?
(In case it wasn't painfully clear, I like making fun of people, myself included, especially when they stray from the topic)

As for the cheese..... ahh the cheese. It's going the way of the Dodo. No more cheats, if people want to cheat, that's fine, but I don't feel like helping them do it.

Mel's final script will initially be a script that just detects the difficulty (easy, core, etc) and sets a new AI script based on that. Thus, if you want an easy battle, just set it to easy, and Mel will be a moron. Set it to insane, and well, you will die. A lot.
I'm hoping that this will provide a decent solution between the insane difficulty of the current battle as opposed to the silliness of "I have cheese, you lose". Something inbetween seems like it would be nice.

-Duality

Edited by Duality, 12 April 2006 - 04:22 PM.

[Kamui2040]

just my two cents on this whole matter.
first of all thank you for trying to make this mod more playable, i see lots of new mods arrising and not enough old jewels being updated/improved.

i can't remember much of the mod since the last time i tried to play it, it was in conjunction with a huge load of other mods and something was so messed up i decided to uninstall it.

my suggestions are-.
other than the obvious bug killing, expand on the more usuable content.
i mean coherent content when possible for example.
i remember something about item forging, siding with demons and that sort of things, and i believe if properly expanded on, it's a good base for new content.
other than that i can only suggest that after the inital stage you will try to achieve, you start expanding on the usuability of the sphere itself.
let's face it, the sphere could virtually take you anywhere, and how much more freedom you want, with such a starting point.
i mean a trip to the Planescape Torment areas would be most welcomed, but that is just an idea.
well just don't forget the compatibility issue, and i will be one to try this mod.

[Duality]

If you played with this mod installed with a bunch of others before, and something was messed, it was most likely this mod. (although, it was an even bigger nightmare before Hlid got ahold of it. He fixed a lot of problems) It was also a complete mess and initially was very very hard to edit. That should no longer be an issue.

i mean a trip to the Planescape Torment areas would be most welcomed, but that is just an idea.

The only problem with this (and I think it's a very good idea) is that:
a. I never played Planescape:Torment, and so know nothing about the plot, the areas, the characters, etc.
b. I use a mac (I don't think there was a Planescape:Torment version for the mac, so I can't do the area conversions myself)
c. I'm not sure just how much work I want to do on this mod. Cleaning it up, fixing all the bugs, adding a number of smaller components, and making sure the forge works (it never did, but you can forge 23 items) are all on my list. But to add another large quest with trips to other areas would take quite some time (and by that I mean a sh**tload of time), and I'm not sure I want to do that right now.

The other problem is that most ideas don't really fit into the PS mold. Since "silly" and "utterly rediculous" are the most two common adjectives associated with this mod. So anything serious or introspective is sort of out of the question.

I did just see someone mention the desire to do a Planescape:Torment mod, but I'm not sure if it will ever happen.

*sigh*, that would also mean I would have to write in someway for the sphere to be "fixed" (since it supposedly "broke" in the normal game). But that could be highly entertaining. The three stooges fix the planarsphere anyone? (err.. sorry, got a little carried away there)

As for additions:
So far all I've added is one very strange encounter/fight, a "hidden" shop, (well, it's not hidden, just hard to find) and I'm shortly going to add another medium sized encounter.

Although, now that I think about it, I'll try to come up with something relating to the player siding with the demons. At the moment, there isn't any penalty for doing so, just a reward. And there isn't any followup. Or path for NOT helping them. How boring.
There is also a small "go kill someone" quest, but I never liked it's implementation or very abrupt ending. I suppose I shall have to add to it.

Item #435 added to the list! (there's always something, even when you are sure your done)

I don't mean to shoot down your Planescape:Torment idea, I'm just not sure if I am capable of doing it right now.

-Duality

Edited by Duality, 12 April 2006 - 07:35 PM.