65 replies to this topic

[Archmage Silver]

I always try to get into IWDII, but I usually spend more time trying to plan out my characters for it.

If there was a way to downgrade IWD2 into 2E (exactly like BG2), then I'd be happy. Most people seem to prefer 3E over 2E though...I just can't stand all the pre-planning.

IWD was great though, I'll probably play it again this year because I didn't know ToTL existed before I uninstalled my game the first time.

I trust you also have the IWD addon, Heart of Winter? It added lot to the gameplay.

[Creepin]

I trust you also have the IWD addon, Heart of Winter? It added lot to the gameplay.

IIRC, TotLM couldn't be installed w/o HoW. You get to castle Maluradek from Lonelywood, after all

[kuddles]

I played them actually quite recently, and loved them. Probably won't play them again, at least for a long time, since the games were so linear. But for someone who had a hankering for some hack-n-slash action, but wanted said action to have some tactics involved, (and whose pretty much exhausted his efforts in the turn-based realm) it was a good amount of fun and a hell of a well-written story. The dialogue in particular in the second one was pretty entertaining, especially the humourous ones that mock RPG conventions.

The last battle is crappy powerplayer shit.
Ok, actually the second part of the last battle.
Madae just heals herself after drinking from the poisoned pond --> doh

Uh, do you know that you can prevent that from happening?

Edited by kuddles, 31 July 2006 - 07:21 AM.

[Rabain]

IWD is a great game, the sad thing about it is that you can't do the area's randomly, it might offer a bit of replayability.

Forced to play in exactly the same way each time...boring.

[Archmage Silver]

I guess the reason why I like the Icewind Dale series is that I like fiddling with character statistics and inventories, plus I just like the atmosphere of the games. Oh well, I'm also the only person here who likes PoR:RoMD, so I don't know how seriously one can take my opinions...

[Manveru]

Being long time IE games fan I decided to play all IWD series. Back to my modding days I believed cliché treating those games mostly as the ressources reservoirs for BG2 mods. Now I have decided to give IWD1/2 a try especially as I am doing some research on innovation in CRPGs design.

I have played through IWD, HOW and ToTL and currently I am in 5th chapter of IWD2 (dread orcs/elves area). I tried to treat those games on their own merit, trying to forget the reference of BG series and Planescape. In some points it was possible in others these games confirmed some of my beliefs:

IWD1 - I think that main story of this game is not bad for the purpose it is supposed to serve. I had no feeling to lose time playing this game. Of course, battle was main part of the game and quests were not so appealing as in BG or PST but it allowed to occupy several evenings. The part that disappointed me the most was the fact that IWD was technically inferior to BG2 - the spell selection is smaller and quality seems to be lower too (no spell sequencers, no contingency, abjurations by mage school and other interactive spells), items seem to be less interesting too (though HoW and ToTL repair this problem partially), still it is far from dialogue based items from PST or Lilarcor sword from BG2.

Graphically IWD1 and its addons are well done but often they use too much of repetitive design. IWD is like a mix of masterpieces (eg. Severed Hand areas, especially in the towers) and crafted repetitive dungeons with not much customization which would be better in NWN which is based on tilesets than in bitmap area based game. This was the big problem with ToTL (the area designers of this addon clearly made also the IWD2 areas) where some area elements were repeatedly used everywhere, in result dungeons were monotonous. The same reproach can be made for IWD2 - areas of BG2 and PST seem to be much more developped, and represent higher artistic level.

In general basic IWD1 represents good piece of entertainment for long winter evenings, its addons can prolongate game's lifetime, but not much (main quest of HoW is less involving than the main game and ToTL, which can be compared with Watcher's Keep of ToB or with Durlag's Tower of BG1 does not keep their level in the competition).

As for IWD2, I have mixed feelings: from one side the quests are more developped in this game (the time loop quest, defending bridge quests, more of conviction quests where diplomacy really can play role), there are more riddles than in IWD1 and more interactive elements of the game world - some of those elements are even more developped than in BG2. From the other side the game main story becomes tiring at the end, almost all side quests are actually integrated into main story in such a way that player has to do them to continue, player has to do all battles as well. The linearity is terrible, because we cannot skip some element which is less interesting in given moment to come back to it later. As far as game mechanics is concerned, I dislike the experience system in IWD2: how it comes that some lesser monster in the beginning of the game gives 500 exp and then much later in the game we get 500 exp for the white dragon ? - yes it is good for game balance, but not really good for player balance (which feels cheated, not rewarded enough for his effort) so that experience is no longer an incentive in this game, what is left is the story (which with all its turns is still far behind BG series or PST which involve directly PC), the 3rd edition is also quite complicated and it is not easy to get used to it after steady diet of BG series - it requires too much thinking during levelups (or even before them) taking away part of the fun - the player is not an accountant. Currently I came to the point that I have enough of playing IWD2 even if there are many parts of the game which were well done (eg. part of the nomad village, Targos part) not mentionning Oswald which has voice of Jan Jansen

In conclussion IWD1/2 is not comparable to BG series and PST which are story driven games. When comparing these games with other action oriented cRPGs they are not the best neither (Diablo 2 has higher replayability), if one wants good tactical game then IWD is not the first choice neither (I prefer for example Fallout Tactics for battle purposes, and there is also more atmosphere in this game). Still IWD is more fun to play than some of other "IE style" games (eg. Temple of Elemental Evil which is boring, terribly booring and slow with its turn based system, Gorasul which is very low quality clone of BG1/PS:T mix and Pool of Radiance: Myth Drannor is an insult for real cRPG players), in such comparison IWD is looking quite well.

[Grunker]

1) Game rebalancing. Currently, the game is too hard on a typical BG2 player, almost pushing you to the improbably and boring stats (ie fighters with 18s where it counts and 3's in INT/WIS/CHA departments.)

This was mainly what made me stop. Even though I actually tried a game with the boring stats, I couldn't even finish. I dropped it. That, and no party interaction + boring (and too little) quests.

[Grunker]

I don't think that IWD2 has little quests. They are just either tied into the main story-line, or a bit less obvious than BG2 ones (ie a messanger shows up and tells you to go THERE! Do THAT!) When I was replaying Targos with a walk-through to do the interjections, I was surprised just how many side-quests I missed.

The second time around, I used a complete walktrough. The quests are, to say the least, boring. I'm surprised you don't think IWDII has fed-ex quests, the game practically has little else

[Rastor]

1) Game rebalancing. Currently, the game is too hard on a typical BG2 player, almost pushing you to the improbably and boring stats (ie fighters with 18s where it counts and 3's in INT/WIS/CHA departments.)

This was mainly what made me stop. Even though I actually tried a game with the boring stats, I couldn't even finish. I dropped it. That, and no party interaction + boring (and too little) quests.

Strangely enough, I had no problems at all using characters that weren't "twinked" in that way. Actually, I never really noticed stats having a measurable effect on the game. It's all about your equipment and tactics -- and so is BG2.

[jester]

@...how it comes that some lesser monster in the beginning of the game gives 500 exp and then much later in the game we get 500 exp for the white dragon ?

Well, depending on your skills and level, challenge diminishes and thus the reward for besting your nth monster of the same variety in a row. I bet Buffy doesn't get XP at all by now. :

@stats that matter
I know it is all the same old story to some, but I think I know only a single game where stats really mattered somewhat, but then again I used run around almost naked. So equipment was largely off the table.

[Grunker]

Well, what I meant was that the game had alot of fedex-type quests (the whole storyline was practically fedex), and contained alot of "go there. get that. put it in there. when it turns green, push the button and go into the next room and kill some stuff."-type quests. Which bored me.

And battles and such things are second-hand: I won't to experience an exciting storyline; but there was way too much combat between all of the dialogue.

[Archmage Silver]

Well, what I meant was that the game had alot of fedex-type quests (the whole storyline was practically fedex), and contained alot of "go there. get that. put it in there. when it turns green, push the button and go into the next room and kill some stuff."-type quests. Which bored me.

And battles and such things are second-hand: I won't to experience an exciting storyline; but there was way too much combat between all of the dialogue.

A good storyline is asking a lot these days, or so it seems, though that was already a problem when IWD first came out years ago. Even though Oblivion is a good game, I still consider the last actually interesting storyline to be the one in KotOR II.

After that, I've seen a couple of good storylines, sure, but none that would actually lit the spark of interest in me (Beyond the initial two hours of playing a new game). Hopefully they didn't botch NWN 2 that bad... otherwise it might seem that graphics are taking over, and that the story is not the most important factor.

Which, in part, might explain why I'm playing Wizardry 8 at the moment, and not Oblivion.

Edited by Archmage Silver, 30 August 2006 - 02:37 PM.

[jester]

A solution for the feeling that the world seemingly revolves around you would be to use a timer with each quest. Even day/night would be more fun. I can wait for ages and the druids still wait for their turn to attack Trademeet. When two imminent dangers are happening at once you should atleast be able to miss out on one.

Also interesting would be some RPing options that let you fubar some quests or get an easy solution without knowing the connections. You where nice to the beggars and as it turns out some of them now a secret entrance past the big bad guards or giving up one reward might alter the course of another quest later and so forth, but I agree that pure item collection is boring.

Edited by jester, 31 August 2006 - 08:45 AM.

[Grunker]

I don't agree with you there Domi. Both KotORs, the Fallouts and Bloodlines did not have a large amount of fedex. As I recall, fedex are typical for the more actionpacked RPGs: NWN, IWD and so on, which may be the reason why I don't like those titles.