9 replies to this topic

[Thauron]

Hello, I have two questions regarding the DnD world.

The first is rather basic: which shapes can a geas take? - can it only be an inevitable and painful death (like in Yoshimo's case) or can it take other shapes too? Which? - or is the Dungeon Master free in that regard and can he do what he wants?

The second: well, I am an experienced PnP player and dungeon master, yet I am not familiar with the DnD world. So I was wondering... In the DSA fantasy world (German PnP RPG cf. old Realms of Arkania series), if one makes a pact with a demonic entity (consider them as evil gods in the DnD setting) one receives great power but one always pays a prize too - almost always in the form of gradually loosing any humanity, both physically as well as emotionally/mentally. As such arch-villains who have such a pact are usually fairly easy to recognize.
I wonder if there is something similar in the DnD world - some sort of physical mark or disfigurement which everybody (from the simplest peasants to the most powerful magicians and clerics) can immedeately recognize as 'the mark of evil' or 'the witch's sign'. Or is here, also, the dungeon master's fantasy the only thing that counts?

If someone could answer these questions, or point me to a place on the web or an available sourcebook where I can find this sort of info, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Cantrip]

In 3.5e Geas/Quest is not fatal, but it inflicts 3d6 damage each day you do not follow it.
It can also cause a person to become sickened.
The lesser version as well as the greater, no longer allow for suicidal acts and have a duration of 1 day per level.
The lesser version does not cause sickness nor damage, but it drains your ability scores until you resume your Quest.
All effects end 24 hours after resuming the Quest.
A person cannot willingly disobey a Geas, but he can subvert it, ex: "Protect me", might cause a hostile guard to lock you up in a dungeon, for your own protection...

Hope that helps. Cantrip

[Cantrip]

Oh, and about the sign:
Nothing official, but there is an internet booklet with 12 birth signs, several of which give off auras.
One each is Evil, Good, Bestial or Dragon.
It definitly marks you as Evil...

[Grunker]

Ultimately though, it is up to the DM to define the rules. If you can spice up a geas-spell to make it more exiciting, there's no reason why you shouldn't, unless it would dissatisfy all of your player too much.

I wonder if there is something similar in the DnD world - some sort of physical mark or disfigurement which everybody (from the simplest peasants to the most powerful magicians and clerics) can immedeately recognize as 'the mark of evil' or 'the witch's sign'. Or is here, also, the dungeon master's fantasy the only thing that counts?

Again, I'd make up my own mind about what I think was cool. The books are just guides in any case.

Edited by Grunker, 02 February 2006 - 10:00 AM.

[Thauron]

Thanx for the replies. I have found the booklet you referred to Cantrip and maybe I will check it out.

A 3.5e geas seems very limited to me though, not at all comparable to what Irenicus does to Yoshimo.
Well, I have another question on geas: Can it be cast on a hostile enemy - according to the example you give, Cantrip, this seems to be possible - yet, in BG2 the geas seems only to affect Yoshimo because he has given his consent (before he really knew what kind of figure Irenicus really was). So is consent needed or not?
Are there any other powerful spells or curses who cause a slow and agonizing death to the victim if an order is disobeyed?

[oralpain]

The 2e geas spell is, by the book, far less well defined, and hence more flexible than the 3/3.5E version. The same can be said about much of 2E . The changes made for 3E are double-edged swords. As you clarify, you also limit. In the end though the DM decides what the rules for his or her game are.

Geas
(Enchantment/Charm)

Range: 10 yds.
Duration: Special
Area of Effect: 1 creature
Components: V
Casting Time: 4
Saving Throw: None


A geas spell places a magical command upon a creature (usually human or humanoid) to carry out some service, or to refrain from some action or course of activity, as desired by the spellcaster. The creature must be intelligent, conscious, under its own volition, and able to understand the caster. While a geas cannot compel a creature to kill itself or perform acts that are likely to result in certain death, it can cause almost any other course of action. The geased creature must follow the given instructions until the geas is completed. Failure to do so will cause the creature to grow sick and die within 1d4 weeks. Deviation from or twisting of the instructions causes a corresponding loss of Strength points until the deviation ceases. A geas can be done away with by a wish spell, but a dispel magic or remove curse spell will not negate it. Your DM will decide any additional details of a geas, for its casting and fulfillment are tricky, and an improperly cast geas is ignored.

Also there is no time limit on the 2e version, it lasts untill the conditions are fulfiled or become unfulfillable. It could conceivably last thousands of years. As mentioned in the spell description, consent is needed, but it's relitively easy for a wizard powerful enough to cast geas to get consent from most people. He/she could not charm it out of someone, but threats still work ("Submit to my magics, or I shall disintegrate your children!").

As for a "mark of evil" type thing, very powerful, very dedicated, evil beings will radiate evil that can be detected by many elementary divinations (detect evil), even when they are not intent upon an "evil act". For more tangible alterations, thats the DMs perogative, though you may want to read up on Ravenlofts power checks system, and the "dark gifts/the price" section of "The Complete Book of Necromancers". They have information that seems to be right along the lines of what you are looking for.

Are there any other powerful spells or curses who cause a slow and agonizing death to the victim if an order is disobeyed?

Countless. Just make something up, using existing material as a guide.

[Thauron]

That seems to be exactly what I am looking for, Oralpain. I'll check it out. Thanx.

[MERLANCE]

The Book of Vile Darkness has plenty of EVIL related things... most notably for this discussion the Evil Brand feat...

Evil Brand [Vile]

The character is physically marked forever as a servant of an evil power greater than herself or as a villain who does not care who knows that she seeks only death, destruction, and misery for others. The symbol is unquestionable in its perversity, depicting a depravity so unthinkable that all who see it know beyond a doubt that the bearer is forever in the sway of the blackest powers.

Benefit: Evil creatures automatically recognize the symbol now emblazoned upon the character as a sign of her utter depravity or discipleship to a powerful patron, although the specific identity of the patron is not revealed. She gains a +2 circumstance bonus on Diplomacy and Intimidate checks made against evil creatures.

Edited by MERLANCE, 03 February 2006 - 01:55 PM.

[Thauron]

Thanx Merlance. Now The only thing I have to do is to think of a good brand. Thank you.

[Deathsangel]

Thanx Merlance. Now The only thing I have to do is to think of a good brand. Thank you.

Book of Exalted deed has the Nimbus of Light as more or less a counter part, +2 on Sense Motive and Diplomacy when interacting with good. You also give bright light till 5 feet and shadowy illumination from 5 till 10. Oh, this last ability is under your control.

Yeah, Geas in 3.5 is not so fun anymore. Mark of Justice on the other hand is nice I as DM tried to cast one on a CN player of mine to never break vows anymore, after he did that... darn spell takes 10 minutes to cast though and he escaped...

Edited by Deathsangel, 27 February 2006 - 12:03 PM.