232 replies to this topic

[Thauron]

Yes, but if that's the case one can drop the second last letter, or some other letter. Just use some common sense.
f.e. BRANWENB, BRANWENP, BRANWENJ (just a fictional example) would become _BRANWEB, _BRANWEP and _BRANWEJ. I don't think this would cause problems, and would keep looking up files rather self-evident (as long as you know if you're looking for a BG1 or a BG2 file).

[Borsook]

Yes, but if that's the case one can drop the second last letter, or some other letter. Just use some common sense.
f.e. BRANWENB, BRANWENP, BRANWENJ (just a fictional example) would become _BRANWEB, _BRANWEP and _BRANWEJ. I don't think this would cause problems, and would keep looking up files rather self-evident (as long as you know if you're looking for a BG1 or a BG2 file).

I think it would be more prudent to keep a simple naming key instead of looking at individual files names in turn

[Hety]

With this naming convention yo'll have to chec for similar parts for every item/cre etc. etc. out there. Near to impossible.

[NiGHTMARE]

Tutu developers have been getting along with the current naming scheme just fine, so there really is no need to change it whatsoever.

[Chevalier]

no one has, as yet, enumerated the benefits that BGT modders and players are going to get from a merger. SirBB and Asc will benefit, obviously, cos they can spend their time converting *other* mods to work with BGT, cos the once-were-Tutu modders would most likely be responsible for updating their own mods to the new platform.

other than that....?

I'll ask again: how will TDD, CtB or any of the other mods listed there be affected from an item going from BGT's naming convention of BGfoo.itm to Tutu's _foo.itm?

If you wish to discount the benefit to players--which should be weighed far more than a benefit to modders--such as more mods, more timely support, and new projects then feel free.

As a player I want the most mod choices as I can get so I like that idea, Cam. But what I think seanas is asking about what does Tutu add to the merger that BGT does not already have? Cam, we can get the same result 'such as more mods, more timely support, and new projects then feel free' from just swiching to BGT and droping Tutu? Other than making Tutu modders 'more' happy by giveing them Tutu nameing and such what do I the player get out of adding Tutu elements to BGT? This is not Tutu bashing, just wondering what better/differnt will be the gameing experance after the merger other than more mods?

[Chevalier]

TUTU has better resolution. TUTU does not have the obligatory transition into BG2. Obviously, if you don't support TUTU naming, the mods that were made for TUTU will not work or will not be updated.

Hi Guest,

You have played both Tutu and BGT-WeiDU? 'TUTU has better resolution' Cool, if it does that would be great! 'TUTU does not have the obligatory transition into BG2' As a BGT player this means nothing to me and you don't have to play the transition if you don't want to with BGT. 'Obviously, if you don't support TUTU naming, the mods that were made for TUTU will not work or will not be updated.' All but one of the Tutu mods have been or are being made to work with BGT.

[Borsook]

@Chevalier - it all has been already said - speaking about big noticable things tutu has spawns fixed in v6, which is one thing more than bgt can offer to tutu... and that is the point, the projects grew so similiar of late it is not practical for the two teams working on them separatly instead of working together which would be more efficient and give players of the merger a wider mod choice.

[Sir BillyBob]

The resolution issue was more about Tutu vs Bardez's version of BGT. I am not sure if this issue still stands with BGT-Weidu. The tilesets from the BG1 game are transferred over to SoA without having to use the lower graphics Bardez had created. This is also one reason why BGT-Weidu is so much smaller than the older BGT package (which was 600 MB).

Mods on one side of the fence or the other are meaningless also now that only one is not available for BGT (but could be if someone wanted to piss off the author).

Naming convention? A bear is a bear. Giving it a "_" in front of its name does not justify a "cool" naming structure. The area namings matching the original BG1 areas are helpful for Tutu modders but BGT modders are already used to their own area names. So converting BGT to use Tutu's area names is meaningless to them. Meaningless to the player also. They don't see area names and it doesn't matter to a player if the area is called "FW0900" or "Someplace". As long as the game works.

The only thing I see interesting is this new spawn issue. I do need to read up on this and fine out what the benefits are in Tutu for this.

[Grim Squeaker]

The area namings matching the original BG1 areas are helpful for Tutu modders but BGT modders are already used to their own area names. So converting BGT to use Tutu's area names is meaningless to them.

However, this naming scheme matches BG1, which is the important thing. Given any file in BG1, the converted name is instantly known. So it's especially useful for BG1 modders who want to mod on the converted version.

[Sir BillyBob]

Just how many "BG1" mods are left out there that don't already have components in SoA? Tutu mods like BG1NPC are not what I am talking about here, I mean mods that install on the BG1 engine.

[CamDawg]

TUTU has better resolution. TUTU does not have the obligatory transition into BG2. Obviously, if you don't support TUTU naming, the mods that were made for TUTU will not work or will not be updated.

This was true of Mk3 (but is no longer the case with BGT-WeiDU) because, yes, I had to compress the hell out of the tile sets.

As a player I want the most mod choices as I can get so I like that idea, Cam. But what I think seanas is asking about what does Tutu add to the merger that BGT does not already have? Cam, we can get the same result 'such as more mods, more timely support, and new projects then feel free' from just swiching to BGT and droping Tutu? Other than making Tutu modders 'more' happy by giveing them Tutu nameing and such what do I the player get out of adding Tutu elements to BGT? This is not Tutu bashing, just wondering what better/differnt will be the gameing experance after the merger other than more mods?

Sure, we can decide to drop one or the other, taking BGT and make some minor adjustments and let Tutu rot--this may be the idea starting point, or may not. But why would we not take this opportunity to make something better than both BGT and Tutu? Didn't all of us start modding because we felt we could improve gameplay to have more fun in the game? I'm not satisfied with Tutu. It has a number of flaws. I'm not satisfied with BGT-WeiDU. It also has a number of flaws. What I happen to think are flaws will not be a list that's shared by everyone, which is why we need to have a discussion instead of knee-jerk 'no changes!' reactions--from both sides. If you disagree with what I think BGT should adapt from Tutu or vice-versa, then disagree and make your case. But I reject absolutely that there are no strong and weak points to both projects that we can combine into something better than either, and the split of players between the projects supports my point.

I'm not satisfied that players have to pick one platform, and wonder why Tutu has fixes that BGT does not, or why BGT has a feature that Tutu does not. I'm not satisfied that Tutu players can get (as an example) Mur'Neth, but BGT players have to wait through four versions and six months to be able to play it. Not only that, when they find a bug, they don't get adequate or rapid support from the community because no one knows if it's a bug in the original or something that happened in the conversion. I'm not satisfied that modders have to exclude players due to technical difficulties, or that time better spent developing new content is wasted on maintenance for unnecessary platforms.

Players deserve better than this. They deserved better when the projects were first revealed and the few of us that advocated combining were ignored.

My apologies if my frustration is showing, as I'm fairly passionate about both projects since I feel I had a non-trivial stake in both, though I was never a primary developer on either. I loved BGT when it was revealed, or I never would have helped with the project. I loved Tutu when it was unveiled, because it did many nifty technical things that I had tried (poorly) when making the BGT Mk3 package with my severely lacking WeiDU abilities. This is a long, 3-year frustration with both projects that there has been so many wasted hours because of the lack of collaboration--due to apathy, old rivalries, whatever. I am very passionate and firm in my belief that we can make something better, and it would be exceptionally bitter if we let yet another opportunity be wasted after interest from both modders and players.

[SimDing0]

Cam has expressed many of my sentiments with much less swearing than I would have done.

[Bursk]

Agreed, Cam makes a lot of sense. One thing that has surprised me, although I admit that I ain't no modder (this is how Welsh people talk), is the number of people who seem to be outright rejecting the possibility of a merger (whatever form that may take). It really is very strange to just say, 'No! I don't want this!' without considering all the options.

Maybe both 'camps' need to be educated on what the other side can bring to the table, before individuals make their decisions as to whether or not a merger is a good idea.

[Drew]

I thought Cam did that in the first post of this thread.......