232 replies to this topic

[Hety]

Wow... would never find that _ynaheir... ppl usually search by first letters, not by last...

EDIT: I actually seen yer post then posted, horred:P

Edited by Hety, 19 January 2006 - 08:58 AM.

[horred the plague]

Wow... would never find that _ynaheir... ppl usually search by first letters, not by last...

Beat you to the post by 3 minutes, haha!

But you definitely have proven my point.

[Thauron]

To be honest, I have to agree with Horred there - that naming convention would result in a whole lot of headaches, I'm sure. _DYNAHEI, would still be acceptable (I thought Tutu did that), IMO, but _YNAHEIR is just horrible.
- but going into that discussion again will probably add three more pages to this thread.

[Drew]

There's certainly no reason that the names that don't make sense with tutu couldn't be changed. We are obviously asking BGT to make some compromises. If making the occasional change of that type is going to make the naming conventions more logical, then change it.

[horred the plague]

There's certainly no reason that the names that don't make sense with tutu couldn't be changed. We are obviously asking BGT to make some compromises. If making the occasional change of that type is going to make the naming conventions more logical, then change it.

Obviously, the goal is to make the best mod/modding base possible. I actually voted against this, and have every right to my opinion. But I'll go with majority vote on this, such is the nature of compromise in the name of the greater good.

It would be much more than an "occasional change", on either side--we're talking about every DLG,BCS,CRE,STO...anything that doesn't have a linear naming convention (like ARxxxx). Nothing to take lightly.

And as the official caretaker of CtB and SoS, official trustee of TDD, author of BP, and co-author of TS (plus my hands in several other cookie jars)--any decision made here will most certainly affect me, and the people who work with me (like KingDiamond, Ascension64, Yacomo, and SirBillyBob, amongst others), moreso than any other single group.

I was merely seeking assurance that compromise was a two-way street in Tutuville.

[Salk]

Problem is that by adopting TuTu's actual name convention we'd guarantee a certain degree of compatibility with present TuTu Mods...If I was you guys I'd look up for shelter after proposing such a revision. Domi might kill you all...

horred,

I believe your help, despite having voted against, would be important and highly appreciated. By accepting the majority's decision for the "greater good" though you seem to imply some sort of democratic behaviour. Have you changed your political views recently ?

Edited by Salk, 19 January 2006 - 09:11 AM.

[Drew]

I think it's highly important to make this a two way compromise. It's just time that we stop asking people like SirBillyBob to maintain and support two versions of the same mod. This change would also cause a lot more folks to be willing to try the mods that you folks in the BGT camp are making. I, for one, have never tried BP, CtB, TDD, SoS or TS. With a joint platform and less compatibility headache, I'll probably try these mods out. More folks than just the Tutu-types are going to gain from this merger.

Edited by Drew, 19 January 2006 - 09:25 AM.

[seanas]

I think it's highly important to make this a two way compromise. It's just time that we stop asking people like SirBillyBob to maintain and support two versions of the same mod. This change would also cause a lot more folks to be willing to try the mods that you folks in the BGT camp are making. I, for one, have never tried BP, CtB, TDD, SoS or TS. With a joint platform and less compatibility headache, I'll probably try these mods out. More folks than just the Tutu-types are going to gain from this merger.

no one has, as yet, enumerated the benefits that BGT modders and players are going to get from a merger. SirBB and Asc will benefit, obviously, cos they can spend their time converting *other* mods to work with BGT, cos the once-were-Tutu modders would most likely be responsible for updating their own mods to the new platform.

other than that....?

[CamDawg]

Just a quick explanation of Tutu naming conventions:

• Anything less than eight characters gets an underscore appended to the front of the file name, e.g. foo.itm becomes _foo.itm.
  
• Since eight characters is a max for file names, eight character file names get their first character replaced by an underscore, e.g. dynaheir.bcs becomes _nyaheir.bcs.
  
• Areas are mapped from ar1000 to fw1000.

The reason for this is to create a unique set of file names that would not conflict with anything, using the same idea as modder prefixes. In the case where the files were eight characters in length, subbing the last character avoided collisions in the name space. For example, the existing creature files boyba1_a.cre, boyba1_b.cre, and boyba1_c.cre all would conflict had the last character been dropped instead of the first one.

[Hety]

Leading _ names will have conflicts with modders:)

[CamDawg]

no one has, as yet, enumerated the benefits that BGT modders and players are going to get from a merger. SirBB and Asc will benefit, obviously, cos they can spend their time converting *other* mods to work with BGT, cos the once-were-Tutu modders would most likely be responsible for updating their own mods to the new platform.

other than that....?

I'll ask again: how will TDD, CtB or any of the other mods listed there be affected from an item going from BGT's naming convention of BGfoo.itm to Tutu's _foo.itm?

If you wish to discount the benefit to players--which should be weighed far more than a benefit to modders--such as more mods, more timely support, and new projects then feel free.

Leading _ names will have conflicts with modders:)

The only person using an underscore prefix is the bigg, who is well aware of Tutu and uses a double underscore to boot.

[Grim Squeaker]

Leading _ names will have conflicts with modders:)

Why, because of the prefix list? Underscore has been reserved for Tutu for a long time and is infact in the 'don't you fucking dare' area of the list because its so important. No conflict.

[Hety]

Thought bout it again. Search in DLTCEP is tag string based so it should not be that problematic. I agree that tailing _ will cause moreproblems than it can solve.

[SimDing0]

Horred's comment about searching by first letters is one of the more sensible things I've heard here. However, I'm not totally convinced. Switching to a suffix, while gaining the ability to sort alphabetically, we lose the ability to distinguish between BG1 and BG2 resources at a glance, which I'd argue is equally, if not more, important. Additionally, I think the algorithm is sufficiently simple that nobody is going to have much trouble determining that _YNAHEIR is derived from DYNAHEIR. The only loss by removing the first letter is the ability to easily identify files without knowing the original BG1 resource.

[King Diamond]

So, I can forsee how that all will look like.
Instead of having 2 different developing platforms (TuTu & BGT) there'll be 3: old TuTu, old BGT and newly merged BuGuTu. I think I would stuck somewhere in the middle....

[kharan5876]

Damnit, forgot to login again!

[CamDawg]

So, I can forsee how that all will look like.
Instead of having 2 different developing platforms (TuTu & BGT) there'll be 3: old TuTu, old BGT and newly merged BuGuTu. I think I would stuck somewhere in the middle....

Following this logic, the BG2 Fixpack is now cancelled. After all we already have Baldurdash, Baldurdash Remix, Baldurdash-WeiDU, and the SP Fixpack.

Edited by CamDawg, 19 January 2006 - 11:29 AM.

[Salk]

Thanks God you don't use that logic, CamDawg!

[SimDing0]

Horred's comment about searching by first letters is one of the more sensible things I've heard here. However, I'm not totally convinced. Switching to a suffix, while gaining the ability to sort alphabetically, we lose the ability to distinguish between BG1 and BG2 resources at a glance, which I'd argue is equally, if not more, important. Additionally, I think the algorithm is sufficiently simple that nobody is going to have much trouble determining that _YNAHEIR is derived from DYNAHEIR. The only loss by removing the first letter is the ability to easily identify files without knowing the original BG1 resource.

I should add that while the natural extension of this would seem to be to retain the prefix but drop the LAST letter for 8 character files, the practical difficulty is that this causes many files to resolve to duplicate names.