190 replies to this topic

[King Diamond]

SHARTE.DLG
State 13.
Trigger must be

HPPercentLT(StrongestOfMale,50)

No, the dialogue in State 13 is a general statement about how weak the party is, not how weak the males in the party are.

So I'll tell you why I mentioned this. When I've met Shar-Teel and my strongest-of-male Kagain started to duel her I immediately spoke to her again and.... receive that response about the weak party. So tell me - what's wrong there?

Nobody will hear that shout otherwise because all shout-triggered enemies are listening to the shouts from NEUTRAL persons. And if that person would first turn hostile it won't be NEUTRAL anymore.

That's funny you say that. Doesn't the script check that the person at the RECEIVING END of the shout is NEUTRAL, not the person DELIVERING the shout?

Exactly, it checks the person at the RECEIVING END. But the shouting person switched to RED (ENEMY) at that time, so the checking person (who is still BLUE - NEUTRAL) never recognize any RED person as of a neutral or good allegiance. They became enemies forever.

So it seems that Allegiance() trigger checks for a relative status BETWEEN two creatures in this case.

Changing the actions order fix that. Shouting person is turning to the allies with a request to help (they all NEUTRAL at that time, so they are allies) and only after that turns red. Very tricky...

I hope you got the point....

Edited by King Diamond, 06 January 2006 - 03:11 AM.

[Ascension64]

mentioned this. When I've met Shar-Teel and my strongest-of-male Kagain started to duel her I immediately spoke to her again and.... receive that response about the weak party. So tell me - what's wrong there?

Nothing...she comments that your dodgy party is battered beyond anything. If a male happens to be the strongest character, this is also included in StrongestOf. If a female was under 50% HP and is also the strongest character, she would never propose the duel in the first place. Now if you then healed your strongest female, then she will propose the duel. What I mean is that StrongestOf does all that of and more than StrongestOfMale, and the dialogue talks about 'adventurers', not 'males'. I really don't think this is a bug at all.

Exactly, it checks the person at the RECEIVING END. But the shouting person switched to RED (ENEMY) at that time, so the checking person (who is still BLUE - NEUTRAL) never recognize any RED person as of a neutral or good allegiance. They became enemies forever.

So it seems that Allegiance() trigger checks for a relative status BETWEEN two creatures in this case.

Changing the actions order fix that. Shouting person is turning to the allies with a request to help (they all NEUTRAL at that time, so they are allies) and only after that turns red. Very tricky...

I hope you got the point....

Yep, you got me confused.
I always believe that a NEUTRAL creature will hear the shouts of any other creature, no matter what the latter creature's allegiance was. Hence, a creature with ENEMY should still affect any other creature with a Heard() trigger...otherwise the action is a piece of that brown stuff that goes down the toilet.

[King Diamond]

So, I've looked a little bit deeper in that matter and here is a little report.

1) A new "debug" version of BANDIT2.BCS:

IF
	Heard("Raiken",ALERT_1)
	Allegiance(Myself,ENEMY)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		DisplayStringHead(Myself,~ENEMY~)
END

IF
	Heard("Raiken",ALERT_1)
	Allegiance(Myself,NEUTRAL)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		DisplayStringHead(Myself,~NEUTRAL~)
END

IF
	Heard("Raiken",ALERT_1)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		DisplayStringHead(Myself,~Heard it, Raiken!~)
END

IF
	Heard([ANYONE],ALERT_1)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		DisplayStringHead(Myself,~Just heard it!~)
END

2) Raiken actions: Enemy() Shout(ALERT_1).
Result:


3) Raiken actions: Shout(ALERT_1) Enemy().
Result:


Very very interesting, isn't it?

So, even though I was not 100% right previously, I'm still sure that Shout(ALERT_1) Enemy() is a solution.

[Ascension64]

That is horrible.
I will put the fix in, but I'd rather work out why that behaviour works that way. Are you sure multiple triggers aren't firing at the same time, and that the script processing isn't at a particular block when Raiken shouts? i.e. can you do it like 9 more times and display the results...are they all the same?

[horred the plague]

IF
	Heard([ANYONE],ALERT_1)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		DisplayStringHead(Myself,~Just heard it!~)
END

You're lucky this one worked. The engine often considers [ANYONE] to be the person nearest to you. Same as [EVILCUTOFF] checks the nearest person of EVILCUTOFF only. Maybe if you're closer than somebody of different allegiance, it works. Maybe if there is only one person shouting in the area..in my scripts, there are normally shouts all over the place. The jury is still out on this one. Try this test again with somebody from your party standing closer to the bandits than Raiken--I had to correct this in an SoBH script earlier this week.

In your second example, block three would have fired, if block two had not been there.

I've always done the 'call-to-arms' shouts before the allegiance change. I had noticed some quirks a couple years back, and I just got into the habit. I never ran this sort of test on it, though--very interesting. I'm still at a loss why they wouldn't listen to Raiken, when he wasn't their allegiance. Maybe the Enemy() action takes longer to execute than Shout() --the circle change, and all-- so it gets messed up in translation. Try something like this out, just for kicks:

Enemy()
SmallWait(5)
Shout(ALERT_1)

I've had to include this sort of spacing in numerous scripts over the years, or they would not work otherwise. Or, they work screwy and inconsistently.

Edited by horred the plague, 06 January 2006 - 05:03 AM.

[King Diamond]

I've tried many things: putting Raiken's dialogue to non-pausing state, forcing party members to be closer to bandits than Raiken, adding SmallWait(60)(!) before and after Enemy(), stripping Raiken off any script. Nothing! - "Just heard it!"

[King Diamond]

Another interesting result after small script update:

IF
	Heard([ANYONE],ALERT_1)
THEN
	RESPONSE #100
		DisplayStringHead(LastTrigger,~It's me!!~)
		DisplayStringHead(Myself,~Just heard it!~)
END

He's still Raiken, but he doesn't trigger Heard("Raiken",ALERT_1)... B)

[Ascension64]

I tested every possible Enemy-Ally flag from the shouter, and it seems that if the Object parameter of Heard() is a death variable/script name, then the shouter must also be of Enemy-Ally flag NEUTRAL before Heard() will return true.

[horred the plague]

I tested every possible Enemy-Ally flag from the shouter, and it seems that if the Object parameter of Heard() is a death variable/script name, then the shouter must also be of Enemy-Ally flag NEUTRAL before Heard() will return true.

Let igi know of your findings...maybe one of these years he'll update IEDSP.

[Ascension64]

He updated IESDP on the 18/12/2005, and that at least has all my findings on RND***.2DA files in there, among with lots of other things. Anywayz, I have created a post over at the IESDP forum at G3.

[horred the plague]

He updated IESDP on the 18/12/2005, and that at least has all my findings on RND***.2DA files in there, among with lots of other things. Anywayz, I have created a post over at the IESDP forum at G3.

Lucky you--I've been waiting > 2 years for my research on OBJECTS.IDS to make it there.

[King Diamond]

AR8300.
Creatures: TELMEN, SONNER, JEBADO, FARMBR, GERDE.
All of them use SHOUT.BCS.
But there're some spawn points nearby that spawn BANDITs that use the same SHOUT script. And if you start to fight them all the above persons go hostile as well.

So they must not use SHOUT.BCS. Already established for the first 3 FISHER.BCS will handle all possible hostility from the party side.

[horred the plague]

{{Backtracking a bit...}}

I just found yet another weird quirk with shouts. It seems that if there is no other [EVILCUTOFF] around, one adopts the habit of listening to themselves. The last guy left is always talking to himself. So, I had to add the following condition to my shouts:

!Range(LastHeardBy(Myself),0)

after every line of:

Heard([EVILCUTOFF],--[pick a number]--)

Hopefully this stops the neurotic trend. Especially funny when a cleric calls out for healing, then tells himself to 'Hold still now...'.

[Ascension64]

Hopefully this stops the neurotic trend. Especially funny when a cleric calls out for healing, then tells himself to 'Hold still now...'.

"...stupid arm, I told you to hold still!" Thanks for the info, horred. If there are in-game bugs that result in BGT-WeiDU from such a code, I will fix it, but never proactively.

AR8300.
Creatures: TELMEN, SONNER, JEBADO, FARMBR, GERDE.
All of them use SHOUT.BCS.
But there're some spawn points nearby that spawn BANDITs that use the same SHOUT script. And if you start to fight them all the above persons go hostile as well.

So they must not use SHOUT.BCS. Already established for the first 3 FISHER.BCS will handle all possible hostility from the party side.

I personally don't see anything wrong with this. Bandits will likely take advantage of any fighting already going on (makes the opponents easier to hit), and the fishers won't shout if they are already Enemy(). Furthermore, if someone say you provoke an attack, or heard some clatter of weapons and went to investigate, I don't think they'd want to hold their nerve when you finally go and talk to them. But then again, that depends on the situation. Comments?

Edited by Ascension64, 10 January 2006 - 02:04 AM.

[King Diamond]

I personally don't see anything wrong with this. Bandits will likely take advantage of any fighting already going on (makes the opponents easier to hit), and the fishers won't shout if they are already Enemy(). Furthermore, if someone say you provoke an attack, or heard some clatter of weapons and went to investigate, I don't think they'd want to hold their nerve when you finally go and talk to them. But then again, that depends on the situation. Comments?

I think you misunderstood me .
TELMEN, SONNER, JEBADO, FARMBR, GERDE should not use SHOUT.BCS because if they heard that you're fighting bandits they'll come to help them against you. I don't think that every ppl around should be real brigands deep in their soul or have many relatives in bandits ranks. That's pathetic... Unless you'd be a more threat to them of course, but that depends on your playing style

[Ascension64]

I personally don't see anything wrong with this. Bandits will likely take advantage of any fighting already going on (makes the opponents easier to hit), and the fishers won't shout if they are already Enemy(). Furthermore, if someone say you provoke an attack, or heard some clatter of weapons and went to investigate, I don't think they'd want to hold their nerve when you finally go and talk to them. But then again, that depends on the situation. Comments?

I think you misunderstood me .
TELMEN, SONNER, JEBADO, FARMBR, GERDE should not use SHOUT.BCS because if they heard that you're fighting bandits they'll come to help them against you. I don't think that every ppl around should be real brigands deep in their soul or have many relatives in bandits ranks. That's pathetic... Unless you'd be a more threat to them of course, but that depends on your playing style

Then it could be better to make the SHOUT work one way but not the other...ah well, too much work, fixed.

EDIT: Problem, BANDIT.CRE appear in spawn points in more AREs than just AR8300. That means if they Shout() in those areas, every CRE in those areas with SHOUT.BCS in their override or another script slot will also become Enemy(), or do they?

Edited by Ascension64, 10 January 2006 - 03:09 AM.

[King Diamond]

EDIT: Problem, BANDIT.CRE appear in spawn points in more AREs than just AR8300. That means if they Shout() in those areas, every CRE in those areas with SHOUT.BCS in their override or another script slot will also become Enemy(), or do they?

Will do if they'll be close enough. But I've encountered that only there for the 1st time.

[King Diamond]

CORAN5.CRE
Has unidentified Arrow +1 equipped.

----------------------------

\Compat\BGT\CORAN.D and \Compat\TS\xCORANP.D
States s3, s4.
There must be SetGlobal("IWasKickedOut","LOCALS",1) action added.

----------------------------
Small suggestion.
TS\Replace\xCORAN.BAF
There's ActionOverride("Coran",Dialogue([PC])) action that just could be replaced by Dialogue([PC]).

Edited by King Diamond, 12 January 2006 - 08:47 AM.

[King Diamond]

LASKAL.CRE

1st shadow druid that you can meet in Cloakwood. I'm not really sure if he should be INNOCENT and penalty you with -4 reputation upon his death in that way...

[King Diamond]

FALDOR5.CRE
Has unidentified Bullet +1 equipped.