26 replies to this topic

[amazinggameguru]

I'm just curious if any of you have played both of these and what your thoughts are between the two. I haven't tried Tutu yet but have played through BGT a couple of times.

[juve]

I'm just curious if any of you have played both of these and what your thoughts are between the two. I haven't tried Tutu yet but have played through BGT a couple of times.

I played Tutu once, everything was nice, i only encountered 1 bug with Tutu itself:
- some weird problem where the Ulgoths Beard Area would not show on my map and i had to CLUA me there.

I installed lots of smaller and larger mods and esp. the larger once mad touble:
- Sirens Call: quests where not avaialbe
- Secret of Bonehill: broken grafix everywhere
- some item upgrade mod: missing Inventory-Icons
- and some other small bugs
- Herbs and Poitions installed but nowhere to find (should be in Nashkell)

But i could play the game fine and even if the larger mods did not work for me the whole BG1-Storyline was perfectly playable. I just skipped the SoB and SirensCall Parts.

I want to try BGT next (year ) and hope that Bonehill, Sirens Call or some other large Mods will work this time.

[Promilus]

I played Tutu v4 fix 13 some time ago...but then I realized that it has one major disadvantage: u have to export->import ur character to play BG2 and further ToB...I made only 1 character which I played all the "saga" and it was quite fun. Then I returned to my searches of BGT and found BGT-WeiDU-really amazing.
The first steps were hard..."XP Patcher" didn't work with PL version so I had to use Shadowkeeper to set level to 1...also there were some "environment" changes...just like the chanters in Candlekeep which DIDN'T chant. But then I discovered something interesting-Transition...after long, long journey I finally made the BG1+TotSC part of the game and succesfully "introduced" into BG2SoA game.
Then the beta 4 came...and some TDD/SoS/DSotSC/NTotSC new versions...So I installed them all and found a reason why BGT is far better than TuTu: it's the most expandable mod I've ever seen. U can install BG1-related mods, BG2-related mods, ToB-mods, tweak packs etc. etc. and most of it will work all fine. It's impossible to do such thing in the TuTu.

[Creepin]

So I installed them all and found a reason why BGT is far better than TuTu: it's the most expandable mod I've ever seen. U can install BG1-related mods, BG2-related mods, ToB-mods, tweak packs etc. etc. and most of it will work all fine. It's impossible to do such thing in the TuTu.

Bah! I would totally disagree on this point: as maximum quantity of mods always was one of my main concerns, I did prefer TuTu over BGT because it allows to install both vanilla BG and TuTu-optimized mods, while BGT is compatible only with BGT-optimized mods As for BG2 & ToB mods... well, we are speaking about BG1 content, no? Additionly, all tweaks, kits & other stuff from BG2 mods directly affecting gameplay will also be available in TuTu as well.

Edited by Creepin, 23 November 2005 - 01:19 AM.

[Chevalier]

As for BG2 & ToB mods... well, we are speaking about BG1 content, no?

Yes, but with TDD installed you get TDD kits and spells like 'static charge' from the start! If you have NeJ installed you get Imoen's Charming Rouge kit and Boo as a familier that can move around on his own.

[Creepin]

I've already edited my previous post - check it again
Hmm... however, I must admit that things in BG2 mods modifying exact items (free-running Boo) or NPC's kits (like Charming Rogue) will be most likely unavailable in TuTu. Yet, quantity of mods adding quests, shops, NPCs and the like that are compatible with TuTu is far outweight those compatible with BGT, as far as I understand current situation.

Edited by Creepin, 23 November 2005 - 01:38 AM.

[Promilus]

I doubt...because BGT mods can give both BG1 an SoA and ToB content...and u have long-term features whole game...at TuTu u have some at TuTu...and some at BG2 stage...
Especially-at BGT u can make a wizzard which could learn some DSotSC/NTotSC spells...after transition he still has that spells at BG2...and further can learn some TDD spells (just an example mods duet)...and at ToB he would have VERY powerfull spells...almost during whole game.
At TuTu u can use DSotSC spells...but after u will export the character he will lose all DSotSC/NTotSC abilities and spells...and THIS is the main disadvantage...I don't even want to talk about "possibility" of creating item-transition mod which could transfer some parts of equipment before transition into BG2 gameplay...which is almost impossible at TuTu.
TuTu is great for BG1 only gameplay (with BG1 mods)...but most of us want to play both BG1 and BG2 with the same character...and with the same spells/abilities/equipment etc. etc. TuTu can't provide it (yet) and I don't believe it will ever.

[Kulyok]

I do not see how smooth transition from BG1 to BG2 can be provided at all.

Take Imoen. You go out of Candlekeep with her, lead her to basilisk field, turn her in a statue, shatter her body and continue playing. Who do you see when you end up in Irenucis' Dungeon? Right. Imoen.

Both Dynaheir's demise and Khalid's body found in the dungeon will cease to make sense, if you would be able to take your party straight into BG2. So does the fact that your former companions, Ajantis, Branwen, etc. will suddenly become "silent" in Athkatla. So do other things (Coran's cameo in Chapter 6 and Harper quest, to name a few).

[Promilus]

Hehe...take the Imoen at Tutu into bassilisk field...turn her into stone...shot with a arrow...export ur character...import in BG2...who will open the cage?
Imoen...right :]
BGT is not perfect yet...it's still beta...but it have much greater potential than TuTu ever will be. And that is the fact.

[Ascension64]

BGT is not perfect yet...it's still beta...but it have much greater potential than TuTu ever will be. And that is the fact.

Hmm...this comment is a little bit harsh. I would politely advise that in a such a thread as this, posters be very very careful about how their writing will be perceived. What I would deem acceptable is something along the lines of "I liked this about Tutu, I didn't like that about Tutu, but BGT has it", or "In my opinion, BGT seems to do this better than Tutu", or "Tutu has this and this and this, which BGT does not, so I chose Tutu". What is bordering upon unacceptable is "Tutu/BGT is a piece of junk, this didn't work, that didn't work, brag brag brag...". Alright, the latter is a little extreme, but please do not throw in any comments that discourage users/modders/developers on both BG1 ports, otherwise I will personally hit you with a fish (as I say in my quote)!

Edited by Ascension64, 23 November 2005 - 03:49 AM.

[Creepin]

I doubt...because BGT mods can give both BG1 an SoA and ToB content...and u have long-term features whole game...at TuTu u have some at TuTu...and some at BG2 stage...

While I agree that potentially (sic!) BGT offers unique basis for mods that are covering both BG1 and BG2 content, I've yet to see one such mod and doubt it will ever be created, so the feature itself tend to be rather useless.

Especially-at BGT u can make a wizzard which could learn some DSotSC/NTotSC spells...after transition he still has that spells at BG2...

Since you're mentioning mod which is compatible with BGT but incompatible with TuTu then what about all items that you could get from Vault or CoM Forge? Not to mention things like great content of TGCpart1...

TuTu is great for BG1 only gameplay (with BG1 mods)...but most of us want to play both BG1 and BG2 with the same character...and with the same spells/abilities/equipment etc. etc. TuTu can't provide it (yet) and I don't believe it will ever.

I'd say that for those who wish to play BG1 with as much quest/stuff/NPC content as possible TuTu is the way. BGT, IMO, is good only for powergamers - ones who take BG1 mainly as meas to get more powerful character at the beginning of BG2

Edited:

I would politely advise that in a such a thread as this, posters be very very careful about how their writing will be perceived.

Yes, totally agree on this. Hopefully, pair of IMO's here and there could tone down nerve-strain

Edited by Creepin, 23 November 2005 - 04:00 AM.

[Promilus]

Allright...but I didn't start such thing :

I did prefer TuTu over BGT because it allows to install both vanilla BG and TuTu-optimized mods, while BGT is compatible only with BGT-optimized mods

I don't know if vanilla DSotSC or NTotSC (no weidu) really works with TuTu as it uses FWXXXX area format, not the standard ARXXXX...I didn't tried...as in the old documentation it was written that it won't work. TLoSC is working on BGT...the same first part of TGC...What is a difference...TuTu uses FW prefix and the same area number as BG1...BGT uses AR prefix and different number...IMHO it is not so big problem /BGTDevsReadme/. Transition made by BGT might be somehow irrealistic...but BGT has direct transition...TuTu hasn't. At BGT i can remember spells from BG1 part when making BG2 part...at TuTu I can't..at BGT I can upgrade AI of almost all creatures in whole game...at TuTu I must use 2 mods->one for TuTu and one for BG2..at BGT I can use one mod to reduce XP at whole game...at TuTu I have to use 2 (ofcours the BG1 XP reductor is also component of TuTu as well as BGT)...BGT has direct transfer of certain BG1 items such as claw of kazgaroth (TuTu as well), balduran helm (--II--), pantaloons (--II--), EXP of PARTY (..ooops...TuTu don't), minor items such as the koveras ring of protection +1 (TuTu not). I was playing TuTu long time ago and I know how it is good...but as for me it is BG1 goodies...not BG2.

[Creepin]

Allright...but I didn't start such thing :

I did prefer TuTu over BGT because it allows to install both vanilla BG and TuTu-optimized mods, while BGT is compatible only with BGT-optimized mods

Ugh, you mean there was something inflammatory or rude in my post? I just stated the reason that was clincher that sway me on TuTu side of the Force If at some moment situation will change and there'll be more mods working with BGT than with TuTu, I'll switch to it, but I don't think it'll be likely outcome given the fact that with BGT one might only use mods adapted for BGT area naming convention, while in TuTu case I could first install mods that are using BG1 standard area names, then use TuTu and finally install mods that are optimized for FW**** areas
B)

Edited by Creepin, 23 November 2005 - 04:30 AM.

[Ascension64]

I must admit that Bardez's original area renaming system was rather dodgy, made even dodgier because of conflicts with CtB, SoS, and NeJ. At least its easy to write a little WeiDU proggy that converts between area names of Tutu to BGT standard with a double clik and the press of the Y key, although it is certainly easier when doing a BG1->Tutu conversion.

[Creepin]

I must admit that Bardez's original area renaming system was rather dodgy, made even dodgier because of conflicts with CtB, SoS, and NeJ. At least its easy to write a little WeiDU proggy that converts between area names of Tutu to BGT standard with a double clik and the press of the Y key, although it is certainly easier when doing a BG1->Tutu conversion.

May be it's possible to write some WeiDU code which might be incorporated by other modders as a part of .tp2 of their mods? This code should allow gamers to select if they want to install mod upon vanilla BG, TuTu or BGT and change all area references accordingly. If such a thing is ever possible at all, taking into account that not only additions to standard area scripts should be changed, but also all references to standard areas in all other scripts, that would be just splendid

[Sir BillyBob]

There are very few mods just for Tutu or just for BGT. Any of these mods can be made for both environments. It just hasn't been done yet. BoneHill and BG1NPC are probably the only main ones right now.

Tutu does not support DSotSC or NTotSC. For some people, that is okay because they don't like the mods anyway. GreyClan hasn't been updated in awhile. The rest are small mini-mods. They shouldn't take long to convert if the author allows it.

[Ascension64]

Basically, to sum the situation up, I am developing a utility that allows a double-click-and-the-press-of-a-Y-key conversion of Tutu->BGT format. This entails looking up ResRefs in every single file installed by Tutu for, in the case of areas, specific changes, and in the case of most others things, the presence of the underscore '_', and patching accordingly. Of course, the 8 character ResRefs that have been truncated will need to be repaired, which would be achieved specifically. If such an idea works, then it should be possible to perform retrograde BGT->Tutu conversion. Sound good?

[Creepin]

Sound good?

If this will work both ways, it sounds great

[Ascension64]

Sound good?

If this will work both ways, it sounds great

The idea definitely works, and so BGT<=>Tutu conversion is feasible. Currently, I have made a prototype Tutu->BGT ARE converter that does its job very well. And that is to say ARE is the hardest file type to convert.

[Promilus]

Wow...great news for both BGT and TuTu players...hope we will see that in action soon