21 replies to this topic

[Captain Spider]

Some people over at pocket plane suggested reducing the overpowering weapons in SOS etc... will BP be doing this?

What exactly will BP do?

[kharan5876]

I was thinking about this the other night actually. It would be an idea to make BP part of making all of these mods compatable by modifying the items, spells, and xp so the entire game with all the mods installed is an even flow of progression and the challenge remains constant throughout.

Of course something like that would be a huge undertaking. It would take forever to decide what changes to make and then test and retest to make sure everything works together properly and the game truely does progress at a decent pace.

Adding Dsotsc, Ntotsc, and Bonehill to the mix would be beneficial as well. I already have a ton of level 6-9 spells that were droped/found in BG1 with these mods. I can't even use these spells yet and won't be able to for a while. Makes no sense to make them available in such mass quantity that early. Finding them in BG2 won't be any fun because I already have half of them.

The best part of all the mods is all the additional content they add to the game to played. If it could be molded into one huge 100+hour game from BG1 to the end ToB it would be quite the experience.

Like I said its just an idea. This type of thing would take an enourmous ammount of effort.

Edited by kharan5876, 22 November 2005 - 12:03 PM.

[King Diamond]

Some people over at pocket plane suggested reducing the overpowering weapons in SOS etc... will BP be doing this?

A solution is so simple. If you think that some items are overpowered and that will lower your satisfaction - just DO NOT USE THEM!

[ronin]

I agree, just because its there dont mean you have to use it.

ronin

[kharan5876]

I realize the face that these are just player made mods. They aren't official game content and they were not originally designed to all be used together.

But on the otherside of it..

Of course you can always choose to use something or not, but having to constantly choose whether if you use the item you got is cheating or not removes you from the realm of the game and back into the reality that its just a mod. You can't get totally immersed in the game world if your constantly having to make outside decisions.

It's hard to fully describe this but I will try using Bonehill as an example. Restenford is some small town that has some problems with bandits and orcs etc.. Nothing major its just a little village in the middle of the nowhere. So why would their mages hold all of the magical knowledge of the universe. It isn't some super powerful temple of magic or something like that. It's just some common little village like the 10000's of others out there in the world.
If the stores had maybe 1 high level item and a selection of other ones good and bad you wouldn't feel guilty about getting the high level item or whether its cheating or not because you know your meant to have it for the challenges ahead.
The content could then be more balanced around whatever items/spells are made available. The level of challenge is created for you instead of you having to create it yourself. Why do we even need to have the option of having high level items during the low level game? If you wanna cheat you can just console something in or use a character editor.

Just my opinion. I think the mods and the people working hard here are doing a great job. I've been a BG fan since it started and back then having all of this was an unimaginable dream.

[Captain Spider]

Immersion is the key word here.

I must admit, playing the old BP the first time round, I was a little amazed at how easy it was to obtain the +5 paladin sword from the cerebral paladin's quest. That to boot, when you start messing around with the acclaimed FR/ROV, you find a whole plethora of items.. some nice, some utterly unbalancing.

As far as I can understand it, a lot of players loved SOA (some even liked TOB). SOA for me was this whole nother reality, where you could walk about in a non linear world feeling like your some hero with his back pressed firmly against the wall.

The old tdd, etc, became a lets get this doozy magic item. Somehow the magic was not prelonged or enhanced, but became diluted - polluted.

BP, however, was great with its improved AI and different creatures - tactics style (without having the ludricousness of some tactics components - you all know what I'm talking about.)


So the question is this: what give you that old magic back?

A) OH look, I've just found a +5 sword. I think I will just drop it right here... no, not sell it, just leave it lying around... afterall- it's just a figment of my imagination anyway... yes, this whole reality is not real at all, its just a computer game... and I'm just a nerd who can congratulate himself (or herself) for not picking it up and showing that he is a true child of Bhall, and he's going to give the baddies a chance.

B.) Damn this game is tough. Got to keep questing. Got to get tougher myself. Wow, being a child of Bhaal is not all its cracked up to be. If only my dad was here. He would show these beholder bullies a thing or two.


Anyway, I am being a bit silly now.


So, for this whole reason of immersibility, I posted a pole idea in another area.... want to see it.....
check out this link.

A poll




Check it out. I may be wrong, I may be right. I just don't know anymore.

I, and many others, really want to play the game with that old magic.
But I need something different than what I've played in SOA before.

I want the bar tender at the city gates to be a vampire when I open his master's secret door.
I want chateau irenicus to be interesting again.
I want crysomar to be somewhere else.
I want fikragg to be that damn gnome illusionist from the circus who has faked his own death!
I want the spells in TDD to not mirror 3e.... bull's strenght.. +4 str... by the gods... the old strength ratings weren't meant for second level spells that give you the strength of a god.

I just don't know. I never would write a roleplaying game so unblanced. And that's what it is, after all, isn't it? Not a computer game, but a roleplaying game for those of us who have grown up a little too fast, got jobs, and have no friends left who play rpgs regularly enough to satiate your appetite.

Captain Spider... going on a long voyage to eat his breakfast.

Edited by Captain Spider, 23 November 2005 - 06:47 AM.

[Himself]

Tone down some things here or there is going to have little to no effect and to tell the truth..

We can never get anywhere in this issue, it would be needed to elect one person or a group of people to be the "judges" of what is good and fair and they would have to balance EVERYTHING... wich is hardly doable given the amount of work, not to mention some modders with the "dont you ever dare touch my stuff" attitude.

Learn a bit about modding and change yourself whatever you dont like.. If I was able to, anyone can B)

[Creepin]

it would be needed to elect one person or a group of people to be the "judges" of what is good and fair and they would have to balance EVERYTHING...

...and don't forget to tell this valiant people that they in turn shouldn't forget to make their work an optional component, for there's surely those who would never use it
I still shudder thinking about amount of work Horred put in his "expirience tone down" and even greater amount of work I was forced to do to give back to my party all experience they were unjustly devoid of

[Promilus]

Hehehe..I agree that some parts of TDD/TS/SoS etc. are overpowered (items, spells, NPCs, monsters...bosses ), but, yay, it is almost the same as the original...and if I play it, it means I like it...and if I like it it means it has more advantages than disadvantages. I don't care about most of TDD spells because there are limited space for them...so I rarelly use them...just few of them I knw they're real good.Same with items...TDD bring many powerfull items, but most of them are kit-restricted (UAI would help I think)-everyone knows what is with the TDD kits...some are very powerfull (Bladesinger, Drow kits, Slayer of the Eye, Rythm Warrior etc.)...and some are not...but most of items in that mods just balance it
We surelly can't tell that it's impossible to end SOLO the game even with most-shitty kit...
There is however one thing I don't like in tdd-C/R have too many possible spells..and many of them are invissible/unusable...have to fix it

[Silver Raven]

honestly, i would be more in the way upgrading existing original weapons / armors (like with items upgrades ; it's more usefull and more RPGish)

i installed some items mods and well....
either i don't buy them
1/ either because it will kill my gameplay
2/ or the items are useless (most of them) => alignement restriction (quite often) , class / kit restriction.

spells : lots of spells are totaly useless (too short duration, crapy effect, etc...) and needless to say u can find lots of them only ONCE
(i agree to have only one copy of a high-end spell , but for the cantrips / medium lvl spells , there"s no sense)

btw if u find the game too easy with all those items, try it with tactics + spell50 (insane ) & core rule lvl (at least) ->almost instant kill vs horrid wilting

i prefer by far the altered version of tactics & spell50 in BP

Edited by Silver Raven, 25 November 2005 - 10:50 PM.

[wellunhappy]

Some people over at pocket plane suggested reducing the overpowering weapons in SOS etc... will BP be doing this?

What exactly will BP do?

Making the BP WeiDU a version that allows an option not to install SOS will solve 70% of the overpowering weapons problem plus SOS is crap the plot could have been written by a 12 yr old with crayons. Okay so this makes me enemies but i'm entitled to an opinion

Edited by wellunhappy, 01 December 2005 - 04:20 AM.

[Promilus]

The way it is made with Dark Evolver seemed to be fine...no mega-powerfull weapon at the certain point...just evolving one weapon the way u like. It is somehow bad idea to always change items during adventures...i.e. Chaos Sword+2 found at the begining BG2 should be further upgradeable (and not with item upgrade once only)...it should upgrade the same way as Dark Evolver...i.e.
BG2: SoA-Irenicus Dungeon-CS+2 //normal description//
BG2: Spellhold-CS+3 //After Irenicus experiments u found out that some part of ur power was not transfered into the evil mage, but to the sword of ur brother, making him stronger//
BG2: fighting Bodhi chapter 6: CS+4 //Just before facing Bodhi again u realized that the hate and anger in both of u (CHARNAME and Imoen) enchants somehow Chaos Sword and gave it special powers//
BG2:ToB-after gromnir...CS+5
BG2: fighting mellisan...CS+6
And so on, so on...

[ScuD]

Yep, I'd agree with wellunhappy.
SoS is really overpowered. If TDD plot is split between areas, SoS plot is concentrated in Soubar and all items are there.
What I don't like in it are:
1) some plot flows
2) poor voices
3) really overpowered items
It would be great if someone could revise ALL big mods... But where can we find such person?

[wellunhappy]

Yep, I'd agree with wellunhappy.
SoS is really overpowered. If TDD plot is split between areas, SoS plot is concentrated in Soubar and all items are there.
What I don't like in it are:
1) some plot flows
2) poor voices
3) really overpowered items
It would be great if someone could revise ALL big mods... But where can we find such person?

I think revising big mods is unnecessary a bit like trying to reinvent the wheel, they just need if at all possible to be options. So people like this mod i don't, it would be nice when the BP WeiDU comes along to be able to choose.
It works in TDD WeiDU if you don't want 50 different kits, classes you have the option not to install

[ScuD]

By revision I meant the decision which item from existing ones will be included in the default installation and which will be not

[Creepin]

By revision I meant the decision which item from existing ones will be included in the default installation and which will be not

Hmm, 'tis really an... interesting approach What about including all existing items in default config, as surely was intended by original creator of the mod? It's quite dubious idea to twist work of other fellow modders to your ends. It could be justified somehow when it's a matter of compatibility improvements or bug-fixing, but changing content is a bit too much IMO

Edited by Creepin, 01 December 2005 - 11:52 AM.

[Promilus]

Yes...and because of that default settings of new weidu mods are similiar to the original mods. The same NPCs, the same monsters, the same items...All tweaking/nerfing should be as OPTIONAL COMPONENT...and I think they will.