34 replies to this topic

[SimDing0]

Thanks! I do appreciate the encouragement. I got into this when I heard MTS saying he was working on the Goth mod, so I got excited. I hope that I can live up to the standard expected here.

This post certainly went well beyond any standard I could ever have hoped for. Maybe you should, uh, let MTS handle the public relations. He's somewhat more diplomatic.

Also, I trust you'll be providing a goth portrait of Goo?

[Jyzabyl]

Sim, perhaps before you start criticising the diplomatic skills of others you should go read a little story about the Pot and the Kettle.

Do you have a constructive or considered opinion to impart? Or are you content just to wave your arms about before standing back and saying "Fire pretty"?

[AnnabelleRose]

This was certainly nice to wake up to. Especially when I am once again fighting being sick, and trying to recharge my patience so I can deal with work.

I had recieved a few reports on this thread as well, so I feel justified in splitting. The reports have been forwarded to SConrad to see if further action need be taken.

I will say this if thread goes further out of control, I may lock it (I will be checking around 8:30cst on my 45 min lunch. We have an internet cafe at my job).

You know, when a fire burns out of control, fanning the flames is never a good thing.

@Sim - I would be happy to include Goo and Alyssa if the authors give permission.

@Domi - You are probably correct, but it is a two way street.


Now, I am done replying to this thread. I think it is silly, and has no point or purpose. Some of you seem to enjoy it, so more power to you. I'll be asking SisterSinister to abstain from posting on this forum as well when she wakes up.

In the words of Jerry Springer Zinger - Take care of yourselves, and each other.

Edited by MajorTomSawyer, 07 November 2005 - 11:41 AM.

[Plasmocat]

The question as to whether this mod should be created at all is kind of the same attitude a vegetarian has when telling a meat-eater s/he is going to die for polluting their bodies and killing god's creatures ... which is also analogous to an evangelical bible-thumper yelling out on the street corner that unless you believe in their particular brand of faith you're going to hell in a hand-basket. There's nothing wrong with having a belief or opinion, but why feel the need to belittle others or try to make everybody agree with you? (General use of "you," btw) That kind of aggressive insistence does more to convince everyone of a person's insecurity than his or her actually being right.

From my point of view, the best way to avoid being annoyed by a bad mod is not to download it and not to go into the forums where you know it's being discussed. Effective. Painless. Easy. Ignorance is often bliss, as they say. And, you could say it's a proactive way of expressing your dissent in the supply/demand sense of activity.

And one thing I'd like to point out that's been bugging me for a while now: Expressing a negative opinion might be a criticism, but it's not necessarily a critique. These are two different animals that are all-too often confused when this kind of discussion takes place. Both represent what the person thinks. But the intent, the function, and the results are often very different. Sort of the same difference as making love versus having sex. Physically it's the same difference, and the two are often confused; but many ppl can verify that there's a big difference between the two.

An opinion is just the expression of one's taste or thoughts without regard as to whether that opinion was invited or whether it would change anything. If you're a senient being you're going to have opinions whether you express them or not. Nobody can really take that much away from you, at least.

A critique is a form of teaching tool by which someone who is at least as skilled if not moreso than the person on the receiving end gives some kind of input designed to help the artist improve their work. Whether the person agrees with the critic's opinion or decides upon reflection of the critic's thoughts that their origional effort was actually what they want ... the point is to provoke thought and refinement. And it should come with a philosophical reason or some kind of instruction behind it.

In general, it's considered more polite and effective to determine whether the artist is receptive to criticism before it's offered, especially if the purpose of the criticism is to instruct. It's also considered more polite to let your opinion be invited, as far as that goes. But even when an artist asks for "critiques" s/he isn't necessarily asking for anybody's gratuitous "opinion."

But we human beings aren't always polite and not all of us see any point in trying to be polite. If that's how you want to approach your communications with other artists, that's fine. But unless you were invited to be "honest" with your criticisms, or invited to give your opinion, it's unrealistic to expect that telling someone their work is crap is going to produce anything other than an argument.

I don't mean to pick any one individual out with this sentiment--I'm just using that as an example because it's the terminology that was used most recently. But really, saying someon's work is crap is an opinion & not a critique anyhow. If we're being truly honest, who would expect a good response to that comment, anyway? From the point of view of the casual observer it's walking that fine line between "brutal honesty" and trolling. I mean, let's put the same behavior in another context. If you go onto the Republican investment exhcange forums and start advocating socialism would you really expect to be welcomed? One of the cited definitions of trolling is to start controversial topics or express opinions you know in advance will cause friction in the community. I'm not saying anyone here was trolling, I'm making a point. The point is: consider your audience and accept the reaction you can reasonably expect.

On another note: I've heard a lot about breaking down the 4th wall regarding some of the newer mods out these days. My response is: What's your point? You're going to tell me that putting Jerry Springer or a goth into a world populated by orcs, trolls, dragons, and sorcerers is ... *cough* ... unrealistic!? Like Tom Servo said in response to the line, "Oh no! Santa Claus has been kidnapped by Martians!" ... Do you know what you just said?

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with the idea of preserving the integrity of the storyline and world mythology. Personally, I think that's cool. I find stories like that interesting. On the other hand, I have no problem with the idea of checking all manner of sense at the door and just playing something completely silly. But that's just me. Given a choice between butter or sour cream on my baked potato, my answer is invariably "yes."

I don't see that either approach has to be mutually exclusive and from what I can see the majority feels pretty much the same way. I also don't see that my opinion on the matter will change the minds of those vehemently opposed. On the other hand I don't expect my opinion to be too popular with those ppl, either.

But there it is.

[Plasmocat]

Domi, I didn't really have what you said in mind when I was writing. Actually, I was responding more to what I percieve to be a growing trend of intolerance on the part of some which is why I put the whole post in general terms rather than specifically responding to any one person or another.

In fact, it's one of my pet peeves when ppl passive aggressively make subtle jabs with the expectation that everyone is supposed to know what they mean. What usually happens (and this is a textbook example) is that someone takes what's said to heart when the point wasn't really intended for them.

Trust me, if I have a pointed comment about someone or something specific I'll come right out and say it and will call names. I'm only shy irl. Hehe.

Edited by Plasmocat, 07 November 2005 - 02:32 PM.

[Jyzabyl]

A two-way street means that I have tresspassed.

Yes Domi, as far as I'm concerned you have. I respect your right to voice an opinion, perhaps you should try respecting the opinions of those who don't agree with you.

[Jyzabyl]

Ashara,
Quite frankly I have better things to do with my time. If for no other reason than the fact I don't see it achieving anything. If you choose to consider your actions above reproach I'll leave it at that. MTS has expressed a desire that his forum not be hijacked and I choose to respect that. If you have an issue with me, take it up with me.

All the opinions I have expressed in this forum are MY opinions and my opinions alone.

edit to fix spelling

Edited by Jyzabyl, 07 November 2005 - 09:23 PM.

[jcompton]

A public fight on Studios that I am not involved in? This may be a first for the post-farcture era!

Firstly, the opinions were invited: MTS had actively solicited the individual modders to sign up for the pack and started the BG1 "yes or no" poll. While on personal level it is understandavble, that people ask for feedback generally hopping for encouragement and praise, sometimes the nets will bring negative responces as well.

I think this is a fine reminder that modding by democracy has never led to anything good.

I'm also curious if the opposition's opinion is as strong against Blonde Imoen as it is against this endeavor.

[Ghreyfain]

I would like Goo to be Gotherised.

Feel free to do it to Indira and the Turnip Golem, too.

Ooh, here is the base image I would like used.  I'm really not sure any editing is even necessary.

http://members.shaw....th_eyeball.jpeg

[AnnabelleRose]

K.

I went to work sick. I had two "vomit breaks" during my shift. Then it turns around. I find out that I scored a "Green Flag" call. This means you score 110% from QA. It usually implies that you have given outstanding service above and beyond the norm, or turned a hostile customer ready to disconnect service into a happy customer. Seems I did both. My team leader had everyone on my team sign a "Caught Ya" card for me (they give those out for similar situations, and you are entered in a drawing for big prizes with them). I did not know about that, and I was presented it, as I was given a standing ovation from my team on the floor, as he used his radio to announce it to the other team leaders and CSRs on the floor. He also announced I am his "stand in" which means I am his replacement supervisor any time he is not around. So barely able to walk without getting ill, I made it though the shift and came home on a natural high, and full of adreneline.

Then I see this thread, and it all goes back to how I felt before all that.

Lovely.

Firstly, I want to thank everyone on this thread for stating their opinions.

Secondly, an appology to SisterSinister. I should have never asked you not to respond to this, and take away your right to defend yourself.

Thirdly, I had PMed SConrad earlier, and asked him about my splitting of the thread. I wanted to make sure I was not overstepping my bounds.

"different rules apply to different forums. I've always let modders handle their own forum as they best see it, and have no intention of changing that in now."

Sorry for sharing part of your private PM without permission.

Finally, how things are going to be on this forum from this moment on.

I tried to be nice and tolerant. Obviously I should have known better.

This thread is now locked. Any other threads, comments like this will simply be deleted or edited to "OMG I LOVE IT!!11!!1!!11". Yes I stole that idea from another forum.

Don't like it, post elsewhere. Either on another forum alltogether, or somewhere else at SHS. I can not be bothered to respond to them, so flame away on me in my absence if that gives your life meaning.

Have a nice day.

[Seifer]

A public fight on Studios that I am not involved in? This may be a first for the post-farcture era!

I'll give credit where it's due. That's actually rather funny.