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KOTOR Sequal.....


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#41 Grunker

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 08:04 AM


well, well i get the point ok. i realize that i am not wanted here. :angry: i suppose i thought that my irony wouldn't be lost on you, but evidently i thought wrong. just for your information my grandparents died in the damned second world war and i am an immegrant to germany so stfu. i am, of course, not a conservative (how could i be, listening to punk music and playing bloodlines etc?). my avatar is not a picture of some nazi but of a movie director, who worked primarily in the USA! Erich Von Stroheim. i thought you would notice by looking at the location of the images i posted. i was merely trying an imitation of the pronounciation of peter sellers in dr. strangelove.
sorry if i offended anyone, i thought my humor would be understood here. always tried to be quite polite actually...
i will be going now so goodbye and good riddance...


Looks like i hurt the turd's feelings. Well boohoo!!! Stupid nazi a**wipe can go die in his own concentration camp. I know the shitebucket from the White Wolf forums. He's some retarded bastard i'll tell ya. Good riddance yourself wanker! We don't need fascists here.


And we don't need people who behave like you do, Old One.

Ignore him, Ze German. Don't let these types get to you.

Edited by Grunker, 03 December 2005 - 08:06 AM.

"I've heard people complain that the game [the new Prince of Persia] is too easy, which seems odd to me, since I died more times than The Nameless One in a smoothie-maker."

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#42 Archmage Silver

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 11:57 AM

I've informed UU about this, and I'm sure this thread gets locked if that speech goes on...

#43 SConrad

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 12:36 PM

Sorry for not noticing this thread earlier; Great Old One has been sent an official warning and has been encouraged to apologise.

Thread kept open for the time being.

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#44 Shed

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 12:47 PM

Interestingly, it's part of Nazi ideology to stereotype and hate others because of their race, nationality, or the way they speak (in this case type). Whether Great Old One is a wannabe Nazi himself or is unaware of the irony involved in insulting someone for no reason other than being German, I can't tell ;).

#45 --Anonymous--

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Posted 03 December 2005 - 05:52 PM

Well considering this is my post board because i created it, i would appreaciate it if this great old intolorent moron stays off it....lets stick to the topic people.....so how about it "Darth Drakus".....what do you think???

#46 Grunker

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 02:29 AM

Sorry for not noticing this thread earlier; Great Old One has been sent an official warning and has been encouraged to apologise.

Thread kept open for the time being.


Quite alright Con. Sadly, I think Ze German is off for good. Sent him a PM, but he hasn't answered, so I guess he had too much.

As for Darth Drakus: Doesn't that sound just a little too, I don't know, stereotype? Most of the Sith Masters have names that relate to what they are or are very original. Drakus seems a little too cliché and unoriginal. But that might just be me.
"I've heard people complain that the game [the new Prince of Persia] is too easy, which seems odd to me, since I died more times than The Nameless One in a smoothie-maker."

- Yahtzee

#47 Archmage Silver

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 06:52 AM


Sorry for not noticing this thread earlier; Great Old One has been sent an official warning and has been encouraged to apologise.

Thread kept open for the time being.


Quite alright Con. Sadly, I think Ze German is off for good. Sent him a PM, but he hasn't answered, so I guess he had too much.

As for Darth Drakus: Doesn't that sound just a little too, I don't know, stereotype? Most of the Sith Masters have names that relate to what they are or are very original. Drakus seems a little too cliché and unoriginal. But that might just be me.

Well, most names tend to be of some stereotype, more or less. Revan was something new, although reminds of the word reaver. I'll just throw some names out of my hat now: Zaren, Brin, Wiston-Uur, Quan'ar, Trys, Reiwar. I'm sure they are more or less the stereotype sci-fi/fantasy name, but what you think? As to using names that describe the sith lord's abilities, Darth Fell sounds a little too stereotypic, as do all that comes to my mind e.g. Darth Bane. But if you give it a twist like Annihilate changed to Nihilus, it can be pretty effective way of making the names up.

#48 -Quiet Lurker-

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 10:02 AM

Godwin's Law is states that such offensive statements are inevitable in online discussion, one shouldn't take them so seriously. :hug:


As for names, I don't believe the names of the villains are as important as how the characters of the villains are executed.

There is no contest that Darth Malak (KoTOR I) is a greater villain than Darth Nihilus(KoTOR II).
If we take the four qualities of effective villains from a previous discussion, we can easily see why:
1. Presence:
Malak's presense was very well established in KoTOR I:
1) He was the one who ordered the bombardment of Taris
2) His starfighters are always intercepting the Ebon Hawk (annoying, but it does establish his presence)
3) He was the one who authorized sending Calo Nord after Revan
4) He was the one who sent Darth Bandon after Revan
5) He actually fought the party on Leviathan.
6) He turned Bastila to the dark side
7) There are several cut scenes featuring Malak when Revan arrives on the Star Forge which is very effective in building up to the final confrontation.

in comparison, Nihilus' presence was very limited in KoTOR II:
1) We see him only in two cut scenes one where he sends Visas Marr after the Exile, and one where the three Sith Lords have a meeting. He was only briefly mentioned by Kreia and Visas Marr.

Since presence is the most important quality for effective villains (not for just RPGs either, Donkey Kong was also an effective villain in this respect) Malak is Nihilus' superior just from this alone. -_-


2. It's personal:
While some people have disputed the importance of this quality, one has to admit (or at least make an effort to deny :D ) that this greatly enhanced the conflict between Malak and Revan. Especially after the revelation on the Leviathan.

Darth Nihilus has no such qualms with the Exile, and as a result, his conflict with the Exile is almost meaningless as is his presence in the game. :(


3. Motivation:
Malak has the classical megalomaniacal villain's motive: to conquer all that there is. Not the best of motives, but it's understandable, and his constant presence in the game shows that he is actively working towards that end.

Nihilus on the other hand, qualifies as the ununderstandable villain, his motivation can be best described as hunger. However his presence is too limited to really be effective, hence the Ravager's arrival on Telos is nowhere near the effectiveness of the Leviathan's interception of the Ebon Hawk.


4. Placement and Distribution:
Calo Nord, Darth Bandon, Saul Karath, Bastila. Malak is undisputedly on the top of the totem pole. The lesser villains are well placed, evenly distributed across the game, thus establishing Malak's presence in the game without clouding his importance as the top villain.

Nihilus has only one minion: Visas Marr, who joins the exile without much of a struggle (which doesn't really say much for her master -_- ). He shares the top of the totem pole with Darth Traya and Darth Sion, lessening his own importance. Furthermore, all three villains are placed at the very end, each clouding the importance and effectiveness of the others.


Basically, having a "cool" name is unnecessary if the villain is well developed. After all, before The Matrix, the name Smith is not exactly the best name for a villain.

If KoTOR III is well done (hopefully), maybe Star Wars fans everywhere will fear the name of Darth Barney! :lol:
(I'm pretty sure LucasArts will come up with something better, this is just to make a point :devil: )

#49 Grunker

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 10:25 AM



Sorry for not noticing this thread earlier; Great Old One has been sent an official warning and has been encouraged to apologise.

Thread kept open for the time being.


Quite alright Con. Sadly, I think Ze German is off for good. Sent him a PM, but he hasn't answered, so I guess he had too much.

As for Darth Drakus: Doesn't that sound just a little too, I don't know, stereotype? Most of the Sith Masters have names that relate to what they are or are very original. Drakus seems a little too cliché and unoriginal. But that might just be me.

Well, most names tend to be of some stereotype, more or less. Revan was something new, although reminds of the word reaver. I'll just throw some names out of my hat now: Zaren, Brin, Wiston-Uur, Quan'ar, Trys, Reiwar. I'm sure they are more or less the stereotype sci-fi/fantasy name, but what you think? As to using names that describe the sith lord's abilities, Darth Fell sounds a little too stereotypic, as do all that comes to my mind e.g. Darth Bane. But if you give it a twist like Annihilate changed to Nihilus, it can be pretty effective way of making the names up.



Godwin's Law is states that such offensive statements are inevitable in online discussion, one shouldn't take them so seriously. :hug:


As for names, I don't believe the names of the villains are as important as how the characters of the villains are executed.

There is no contest that Darth Malak (KoTOR I) is a greater villain than Darth Nihilus(KoTOR II).
If we take the four qualities of effective villains from a previous discussion, we can easily see why:
1. Presence:
Malak's presense was very well established in KoTOR I:
1) He was the one who ordered the bombardment of Taris
2) His starfighters are always intercepting the Ebon Hawk (annoying, but it does establish his presence)
3) He was the one who authorized sending Calo Nord after Revan
4) He was the one who sent Darth Bandon after Revan
5) He actually fought the party on Leviathan.
6) He turned Bastila to the dark side
7) There are several cut scenes featuring Malak when Revan arrives on the Star Forge which is very effective in building up to the final confrontation.

in comparison, Nihilus' presence was very limited in KoTOR II:
1) We see him only in two cut scenes one where he sends Visas Marr after the Exile, and one where the three Sith Lords have a meeting. He was only briefly mentioned by Kreia and Visas Marr.

Since presence is the most important quality for effective villains (not for just RPGs either, Donkey Kong was also an effective villain in this respect) Malak is Nihilus' superior just from this alone. -_-


2. It's personal:
While some people have disputed the importance of this quality, one has to admit (or at least make an effort to deny :D ) that this greatly enhanced the conflict between Malak and Revan. Especially after the revelation on the Leviathan.

Darth Nihilus has no such qualms with the Exile, and as a result, his conflict with the Exile is almost meaningless as is his presence in the game. :(


3. Motivation:
Malak has the classical megalomaniacal villain's motive: to conquer all that there is. Not the best of motives, but it's understandable, and his constant presence in the game shows that he is actively working towards that end.

Nihilus on the other hand, qualifies as the ununderstandable villain, his motivation can be best described as hunger. However his presence is too limited to really be effective, hence the Ravager's arrival on Telos is nowhere near the effectiveness of the Leviathan's interception of the Ebon Hawk.


4. Placement and Distribution:
Calo Nord, Darth Bandon, Saul Karath, Bastila. Malak is undisputedly on the top of the totem pole. The lesser villains are well placed, evenly distributed across the game, thus establishing Malak's presence in the game without clouding his importance as the top villain.

Nihilus has only one minion: Visas Marr, who joins the exile without much of a struggle (which doesn't really say much for her master -_- ). He shares the top of the totem pole with Darth Traya and Darth Sion, lessening his own importance. Furthermore, all three villains are placed at the very end, each clouding the importance and effectiveness of the others.


Basically, having a "cool" name is unnecessary if the villain is well developed. After all, before The Matrix, the name Smith is not exactly the best name for a villain.

If KoTOR III is well done (hopefully), maybe Star Wars fans everywhere will fear the name of Darth Barney! :lol:
(I'm pretty sure LucasArts will come up with something better, this is just to make a point :devil: )



I just don't like Malak because he was too much of a stereotype for me. Reminded me too much of Vader. And I think Nihilus had the potential to be so much more than he was, he could have been the greatest of all them.

As for the names, that what exactly what I spoke of. Darth Vader is an example of a sith lord name that is original and good, and Darth Nihilus an example of a name that sums up the effect of the sith lord, without sounding like shit.
"I've heard people complain that the game [the new Prince of Persia] is too easy, which seems odd to me, since I died more times than The Nameless One in a smoothie-maker."

- Yahtzee

#50 Great Old One

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 10:32 AM

grrr I'm supposed to apoligize. Well sorry then, but this is quite pointless as he has left the forum and probably won't read it.

#51 --Anonymous--

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Posted 04 December 2005 - 03:00 PM

Listen i think everyone would like it if you didn't come on this board again....you made your opinions known and now a member has left because of your intolorent minded remarks, so please stop coming on if your just here to stir the pot...this is about KOTOR not childish name-calling...thank you.....now, that guy previous made a lot of good points, when you think about it.....Malak was probley the stronger than Nilhius and he would most likely mop the floor with him if they fought.....no sense now though....there both dead....the writers will probley dig up a name from greek mytholgy or something, no use wondering just have to wait until it's out.....oh yes and i heard some new stuff on the third so go my other board....thanks

#52 Userunfriendly

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Posted 05 December 2005 - 07:23 PM

Sorry to show up late guys...my eyes have been strained for the past few days, so i've been avoiding the computer...

I will be keeping an eye out more often. Great Old One, personal attacks are not tolerated in this forum.
They call me....

Darth...

Darth Gizka...

#53 Grunker

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 07:24 AM

Sorry to show up late guys...my eyes have been strained for the past few days, so i've been avoiding the computer...

I will be keeping an eye out more often. Great Old One, personal attacks are not tolerated in this forum.


No problem Userunfriendly, though you're opinions on KotOR are greatly missed ^_^

Great Old One: Everyone can make a mistake from time to time, just please restrain yourself from using that kind of language again. For my part, I have no problem with you still participating in this debate as long as you can keep a civilized tone.
"I've heard people complain that the game [the new Prince of Persia] is too easy, which seems odd to me, since I died more times than The Nameless One in a smoothie-maker."

- Yahtzee

#54 --Anonymous--

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Posted 06 December 2005 - 02:18 PM

Yeah, i'm okay with that i guess everyone makes mistakes......to take a line from my favorite movie batman begins......why do we fall? so we can learn to pick ourselves up again.......

#55 Archmage Silver

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 04:40 AM

Now, to get back to the topic, how about NPCs? Names/races? I'd like to see a Cerean NPC alá Ki-Adi-Mundi.

#56 Kellen

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 09:19 PM

The villian should be named after our very own Userunfriendly.

Darth Gizka!
"She could resist temptation. Really she could. Sometimes. At least when it wasn't tempting." - Calli Slythistle
"She was a fire, and I had no doubt that she had already done her share of burning." - Lord Firael Algathrin
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#57 Archmage Silver

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Posted 11 December 2005 - 06:13 AM

Nay, they'd have to give the game M rating due to the ultimate violence and dread athmosphere! :D

#58 Kellen

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 11:23 AM

I guess so. Sorry Unfriendly can't use you.
"She could resist temptation. Really she could. Sometimes. At least when it wasn't tempting." - Calli Slythistle
"She was a fire, and I had no doubt that she had already done her share of burning." - Lord Firael Algathrin
"Most assume that all the followers of Lathander are great morning people. They're very wrong." - Tanek of Cloakwood

we are all adults playing a fantasy together, - cmorgan

#59 Archmage Silver

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Posted 18 December 2005 - 03:33 PM

I guess so. Sorry Unfriendly can't use you.

LOL That was unfriendly! :lol: ;) Heheh... I wonder when LucasArts is going to hire Obsidian to actually make KotOR III...

#60 Grunker

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Posted 19 December 2005 - 06:12 AM


I guess so. Sorry Unfriendly can't use you.

LOL That was unfriendly! :lol: ;) Heheh... I wonder when LucasArts is going to hire Obsidian to actually make KotOR III...


Well, they're working on the New Jersey project, which is not KotORIII, so I'm guessing it will be an all-new company.
"I've heard people complain that the game [the new Prince of Persia] is too easy, which seems odd to me, since I died more times than The Nameless One in a smoothie-maker."

- Yahtzee