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Requesting a formal list of all banned boards


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#141 -Guest-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 10:07 AM

keep in mind that nothing forces you to post here

I am disappointed.

Guys, I'd hope the reason I care about policy here is pretty obvious (aside from the fact that I currently have a forum here for some reason). You've freeloaded nicely onto the popularity that the former FWP staff built up for the Forgotten Wars name. As a result, you're the biggest modding site, and if you suck, modding appears to suck. Therefore, I would prefer it if you didn't suck. If you were some tiny obscure site with 3 incomplete mod forums, I doubt so many people would be concerned about how you ran things.

Let me spell it out:
- You are popular because the former FWP members went out of their way to make Forgotten Wars a household name. Were it not for jcompton, I assure you, most of you would be on TeamBG. I certainly would.
- I was one of the former FWP members. I went to significant efforts to encourage people to visit there and Studios.
- I would rather you not shit on my efforts.

Thank you.

#142 -Ashara-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 10:29 AM

With all due respect the only thing that 'sucks' are the turf wars. Nobody ever tried to steal Jason's laurel wreath. But guess what, nobody ever tried to steal Wes' wreath either. Yes, Jason was always the fighter, and, I for one, never refused to put a new leaf into his headdress, but in that particular instance, he is fighting with the windmillls, and from where I am seating with the illusionary windmills at that. Of course, I am not privy to whatever had passed behind the scenes - and neither I want to be - but on the good and green Earth, it's just not worth it! Modding sucks because of this, because of bickering and politicking. Maybe it is past time for us to realize that BG grew too old and too tired if *that* is what prominent, famous, cherished modders spend their time on. The whole thing is just so unbearably, ultimately and endlessly stupid, it hurts.

Edited by Ashara, 29 September 2005 - 10:40 AM.


#143 -Eavesdropping Bystander-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 10:56 AM

keep in mind that nothing forces you to post here


- You are popular because the former FWP members went out of their way to make Forgotten Wars a household name. Were it not for jcompton, I assure you, most of you would be on TeamBG. I certainly would.

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If that were true, a mass exodus of modders and members would have occurred during the abrupt 'demise' of the original FWP and subsequent merging it in with FWS a short time later. Several followed compton to ppg which was to be expected. And, ppg flourished in its own way. But, that was all a year and a half ago -- a very long time.

However, to categorize FWS's, then FW's, and finally ShS's success as being due to one person -- or even a small handful of persons' -- efforts ignores the countless contributions made by other very respected persons within the overall community, who have, and do, continue to contribute here. Venturing to guess, but it seems those stalwart members are the real root of the growth trend continuing here, and I doubt anyone could, or would, objectively attribute this current (and recent) growth as momentum from any lingering influence of compton's association with FWP.

Just a bystander's observation. :)

#144 -Guest-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:03 AM

But, alas, an incorrect observation. I repeat my assertion: If not for jcompton, you would be browsing TeamBG now.

#145 -Guest-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:09 AM

And, uh, yeah. I'll be crediting Edison in my readmes at this rate. But I'm just saying, there's my reason for complaining when you guys are mean.

#146 -Ashara-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:14 AM

It is, indeed, true, that FWP was created as a direct competitor to TeamBG. It is also peculiar that JC's 'board creativity' is connected with ruthless campaining and break-aways. In other words, WeiDU themed conflict with TeamBG brought about FWP, the leadership conflict and hosting policy brought about PPG. But that would be a backward way of looking at it. It is rather that he would go to the end in his pursuit of his vision. Regretfully, after forming PPG he has nowhere to go within the modding community, as the only step up from there is amalgamating all the communities into a mega one under his leadership. That, I trust is not his aim.

Edited by Ashara, 29 September 2005 - 11:16 AM.


#147 -Guest-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:17 AM

But you like the idea, right?

#148 -Ashara-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:25 AM

No. I prefer a number of communities with different profiles and different philosophy which coexist without warring.

Edited by Ashara, 29 September 2005 - 11:25 AM.


#149 -Guest-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:35 AM

Why?

#150 Plasmocat

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:39 AM

Guest, so what?

By that I mean, what's that got to do with anything? Even assuming you are absolutely correct (and I have no reason not to believe you), what does jcompton or even TeamBG have to do with *this* board's policy?

Isn't TeamBG defunct now anyway? Did they ever come back online after their crash? If not, then I reckon we'd be S.o.L. if all we had to depend on was that site anyhow. Seems to me there would be a lot of interest in its return, and just for that reason I'd be happy to find out it was alive & kicking. So there's no offense intended there, but my point is that you can't surf a dead site. If even if there was no SHS nobody would be browsing TeamBG right now, jcompton or no jcompton. SHS or no SHS.

Since you're into spelling, let me return the favor:

-- This board doesn't belong to jcompton. So while we might be grateful for his contributions establishing the original modding community, that doesn't obligate anyone in any way. We're not any more obliged to do things the way jcompton would have done them than we are to do things the way the administrators on other boards would do them.

-- I think it would be pretty arrogant to assume that the modding community as a whole would collaspe if this board failed. That's making the assumption there's no other good community that ppl would drift to, or that no one would be inspired to create anything else new. That's assuming this is the only place holding the hobby together. I highly doubt that's the case.

Whether this board succeeds is sort of supply and demand issue, in a way. If this board puts out a bad product and/or cultivates an atmosphere ppl don't like ... then ppl will quit coming. Either another community will take up the slack or another community will spring up or the lack of interest in continuing one way or another would lead to things just fizzling out.

-- Things change. Sometimes for better, sometimes for worse, and sometimes it's just different. The creators and admins of this board shouldn't be expected to be clones or imitators of what came before. They'll have their own ideas, their own strengths and weaknesses, and if we as members are fair we'll bear in mind that we're forging new ground here. We can be grateful for the opportunity to incorporate all the great ideas that came before, but we can also add new ideas and make improvements if we're constructive.

But no matter how much or how little benefit we gain from the entities that came before, the fact is that this is a new entity. Things are never going to be like they were before. In some ways they might be better, in some ways you might think they suck ... but you can't expect this to be FWS or FW or TeamBG or whatever any more than you can expect a child to be exactly like his/her parent. If you tried to make the kid act and perform just like the parent you'd end up with a dysfunctional family.

Rather than expecting things to suck and waiting for reasons to complain, why not look at this as an opportunity to contribute to new innovations and ... even more than that ... why don't we all consider this new setting as an opportunity to put aside the negative energy that led to the closing of the other sites (TeamBG excepted, because that was a hacker's fault iirc) and let's try to cultivate the kind of open-minded forum I described in a previous post.
All great deeds and all great thoughts have a ridiculous beginning. -- Albert Camus

#151 Plasmocat

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:42 AM

No. I prefer a number of communities with different profiles and different philosophy which coexist without warring.

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I'll drink to that! :cheers: :cheers:

Why? Because diversity inspires creativity and individualism, which are strengths in an artistic community--which I consider modding to be.
All great deeds and all great thoughts have a ridiculous beginning. -- Albert Camus

#152 -Ashara-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 11:54 AM

A beautiful answer, Plasmocat.

If the question was why imo not Jason as the Modding Overlord, it is because it would not work. JC is a bright flame, but the one that in the end of the day, divides, rather than unites; seeking out differences rather than similies. His leadership (like any other, I am sure, but even sooner) will inevitably lead to the split of a hypothetical megaboard.

EDIT: That was not a personal attack on JC.

Edited by Ashara, 29 September 2005 - 12:00 PM.


#153 NiGHTMARE

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 12:21 PM

- You are popular because the former FWP members went out of their way to make Forgotten Wars a household name. Were it not for jcompton, I assure you, most of you would be on TeamBG. I certainly would.

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Small flaw in that theory: Jason Compton wasn't the founder of FWP. There's nothing to indicate it wouldn't have become a success if he hadn't been around.

There's also absolutely nothing to suggest that other sites such as the Gibberlings Three, the Chosen of Mystra and the Black Wyrm lair wouldn't have existed if it hadn't been for FWP.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 29 September 2005 - 12:23 PM.


#154 -Ashara-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 12:56 PM

Small flaw in that theory: Jason Compton wasn't the founder of FWP. There's nothing to indicate it wouldn't have become a success if he hadn't been around.


JC and Ghrey were the ones that got the ball rolling; who would moved it if they were not available, we know not. Early FWP was quite a bunch, but I think that these two had both dedication and ability to code in the early WeiDU that the others lacked. After all, appart from Blue, I think they are only ones that did release mods in the end.

#155 Chevalier

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 02:23 PM

I was thinking "Are we still talking about this?", But then I notice that since flame war started more people are showing up! Or showing more often to see the lastest posts. They like a good fight!

Whether this board succeeds is sort of supply and demand issue, in a way.  If this board puts out a bad product and/or cultivates an atmosphere ppl don't like ... then ppl will quit coming.  Either another community will take up the slack or another community will spring up or the lack of interest in continuing one way or another would lead to things just fizzling out.

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In this idea maybe we should bring back GenRev? With no member posting, just anon. posts? Maybe we can have the topic 'I have the last word here, No I do, NO I DO!, Oh No You Don't.'

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#156 Plasmocat

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 02:45 PM

First rule of storytelling, Chev. Conflict creates interest. Not that I advocate it ... I'm just saying. It's interesting.

Even I prefer movies with huge guns and explosions and dudes in tight leather to movies with ppl crying or hugging each other or other crap like that.

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***Eta. This would seem to be a good place to go into my theory about how any movie can be improved with the appearance of a dinosaur or a few zombies, but that's probably thread hijacking.

But just think about it. What if Hannah had opened her apt. door expecting her sisters or Woody Allen and instead got eaten by a velociraptor? See? What if Tom Hanks had had to battle a few dinosaurs for survival on his island and used one of their heads as his best friend instead of Wilson? See? Do you think Gigli would have been a flop if it had a couple of zombies--er. Good point. I'll give you that one. It would be hard to tell Afleck & Lopez from the undead. .... They're not undead, right? Are we sure about that?

Anyhow ... back to your regularly scheduled argument.

Edited by Plasmocat, 29 September 2005 - 02:51 PM.

All great deeds and all great thoughts have a ridiculous beginning. -- Albert Camus

#157 Chevalier

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 03:02 PM

I like guns and all, but for me it's boobs. Any movie would be better with a few more boobs on the screen (Star Wars with a topless scene after the trash compactor scene).

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#158 -Guest-

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 03:22 PM

What if Hannah had opened her apt. door expecting her sisters or Woody Allen and instead got eaten by a velociraptor?


OMG, that would have been awesome :woot: :Tasty:

#159 Ghreyfain

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 03:52 PM

- You are popular because the former FWP members went out of their way to make Forgotten Wars a household name. Were it not for jcompton, I assure you, most of you would be on TeamBG. I certainly would.

View Post


Small flaw in that theory: Jason Compton wasn't the founder of FWP. There's nothing to indicate it wouldn't have become a success if he hadn't been around.

There's also absolutely nothing to suggest that other sites such as the Gibberlings Three, the Chosen of Mystra and the Black Wyrm lair wouldn't have existed if it hadn't been for FWP.

View Post


That's actually something I find myself thinking about every so often. If I had a time-machine--or alternate-dimension-machine, I suppose--I'd like to see what would've happened had the development of Kelsey not put FWP on the map, and WeiDU as well. We wouldn't've seen the rennaissance of NPC mods that followed, as the trend in those days seemed to be "okay, we've got item packs down to a T, now let's do giant quest mods!"

I don't want to be as egotistical as to say that no one would've come along and done the same/similar things to galvanize modding if Jason and I hadn't been around, but I can say that it wouldn't've been anyone at FWP at the time.

This may all seem rather off-topic, but it really does relate to the topic at hand. See, things back in the day went roughly as follows:

- Ken and Neil didn't get along.
- FWP was basically Neil and his buddies' "TBG smellz" site.
- By association, Ken didn't like anyone at FWP. Jason and I sort of blundered into that accidentally. (Although I'm sure there would've been confrontation in the end anyways, but that's straying from my line of thought.)

So yeah, the two of us helped Weimer create WeiDU, under FWP's banner, and Ken took exception to there being a really sweet tool out there that wasn't under his sway. We can only speculate as to his reasons for being so irrational, but for a large part, I think it's because he disliked Jason so much. It was a long uphill battle to actually let people know about WeiDU, since Ken and Co. censored everything that was said about it at TeamBG, the largest site back then.

Now, what's happened here is not Jason saying, "Hey, look, everyone! It's an awesome tool that will revolutionise modding!" It's him making a joke about Bruce being manlier than Irenicus. The problem is that it's censorship based purely on the fact that the person with power dislikes the person making the post.

So that's about the gist of things as I saw/see them, and an explanation for those of you who don't think the history of IE modding seems relevant to this argument.

Is the world a better place for having WeiDU? Hell yes.
Is the world a better place for not having a lame joke about Bruce the Cockney Barfighter(s)? *Fucked if I know.
Will the world be a better place if, theoretically, a future post is deleted simply because the people in charge of the status quo don't like the guy who made that post? I contend that it won't. I am very passionate that history does not repeat in the way it did, because it caused a hell of a lot of frustration, let me tell you.

*In-joke alert! Bonus points to anyone who can tell me where that line is from!

Here's to SHS being a place where one is free to express one's ideas, despite their unpopularity.

#160 Jyzabyl

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Posted 29 September 2005 - 05:22 PM

DAMN YOU PLASMOCAT!!!!
Just when I swear I'll never read this thread again you had to go and make it interesting. You Bastard! Plus you forget the 2 most important must see movie ingredients. John Cusack and an 80's music soundtrack!
John Cusack riding a Velociraptor, battling Zombies to the strains of the Psychedelic Furs... Now that's a Movie!
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