86 replies to this topic

[SimDing0]

Item shattering was in vanilla BG1, yes. That's why I mention finding out what percentage BG1 itself used for it above. (But presumably people spotted "Ding0" and "Tutu" in the same post and skipped over it or something. )

[CamDawg]

A small correction--weapon breakage was in BG; armor/helmet/shield breakage was not.

[Delight]

How was the armor breakage implemented?

[Ascension64]

How was the armor breakage implemented?

Using HitBy([ANYONE]) conditions, combined with all the usual stuff.

Item shattering was in vanilla BG1, yes. That's why I mention finding out what percentage BG1 itself used for it above. (But presumably people spotted "Ding0" and "Tutu" in the same post and skipped over it or something. smile.gif)

Well, don't presume that...Sim, have you any idea what controls weapon shattering in BG1?

[SimDing0]

I'd assume that it'd be hardcoded to item type, in which case the only way to figure it out would be to examine the rate of breakage over a high number of attacks. (Boring.)

[cujo]

I'd assume that it'd be hardcoded to item type, in which case the only way to figure it out would be to examine the rate of breakage over a high number of attacks. (Boring.)

I once had a weapon breaking and switched to another one which broke on the first hit. I believe that weapon breaking should always be in BGT or TuTu and that the armor/helmet/shield breaking should also be included because the same iron ore is being used.

Of course this can be quite annoying (I just started my game, put on my armor to leave Candlekeep with Gorion and when I got hit by Tamoko's flame arrow my armor shattered) but it adds to the realism of the game.

[King Diamond]

Iron equipment shattering MUST be annoying. Otherwise how it could cause such problems all over the Sword Coast?
Without it there wouldn't be any problems around as the BG game itself. So get used to it or die...

And it was written many times here: if you want something "special" - learn IE and make it for your own installation.

[Sir BillyBob]

However, magical armor and the Ankheg plate should not break. Therefore, get to Nashkel as fast as possible to put on that armor.

I don't think the 5% chance is unreasonable, that is a small chance. The problem is with the way the game engine picks that chance (as mentioned above).

[Arturcic]

I'm with KD on this issue: iron in the Sword Coast is crap, so it HAS to brake relatively easily. It's part of the plot, u can't ignore it. What if Peter Jackson had decided there are only 3 rings of power for the human kind in TLotR to save money? He would be dead by now.
If possible, what could be implemented is that, after clearing the Nashkell mines, the shattering percentage should decrease with time till a zero possibility. This would encourage players to give it the highest priority, so they don't face Mulahey being a level 7 character.

[Delight]

Wrr...
FP and most of swords should be made of steel.

[Promilus]

Yes I agree SBB, KD and Arturcic
Normally u need to have about 2 "unbreakable" armors at the beggining of adventure at Sword Coast...The Ankheg Plate from Nashkel (farm)...the next made by smithy (if u have dsotsc/ntotsc few Ankhegs would appear on map at exit of Nashkel Mines)
The magic chainmail+1 can be found also in some crypt at that map...or some map near Mines //more magic items with mods//
Item shattering IS annoying, but it should be...//in Tutu G3 tweaks there is also option to make all iron items breakable...shields, helmets, armors...so I guess it REALLY SHOULD be the part of the game...however Iron Crisis is a really recent news at the Coast...it had start few weeks/months before main character went outside Candlekeep...I don't believe so GREAT number (ALL) iron items had been made from "poisoned" ore...So I guess chances should be little lowered...BTW spears should be excluded as they're mainly from wood (u can say-the *spike* is from iron...I would say-make brokable arrows and bolts as they're also partialy from iron...)

Edited by Promilus, 30 August 2005 - 09:04 AM.

[CamDawg]

Wrr...
FP and most of swords should be made of steel.

Steel's major component is iron.

I think, perhaps, we need to address the point of BGT. If it's supposed to emulate BG then the percentage should be selected based on what actually happens in BG, not some arbitrary decision about player convenience or difficulty levels. When we tried 5% for Tutu, the occurrence of broken levels seemed way off from BG--admittedly, there was not any sort of rigorous statistical review. If it's not a BG emulation, then armor, shields, and helms can break and any percentage will do.

[Promilus]

Hey...In pure BG1 I lost only 1 non-magical sword by iron shortage...and believe me, most of my NPCs had their non-magical weapons up to Sarevok's battle.
Maybe make it 5% before Nashkel...and 1% after quest? (if it is by script it is possible to make *IF* condition with "quest state")

[Ascension64]

Hey...In pure BG1 I lost only 1 non-magical sword by iron shortage...and believe me, most of my NPCs had their non-magical weapons up to Sarevok's battle.
Maybe make it 5% before Nashkel...and 1% after quest? (if it is by script it is possible to make *IF* condition with "quest state")

Well, it looks like I will do the boring statistical revelling in BG1. One possible way to 'standardise' the item shattering is to use incrementation of local variables rather than just a random chance, but it would be way too rigid in that, for example, after every exact 20 hits, something will shatter. Of course, you could always make the game check every 5 hits and still have a percentage. I'll post some numbers up later today.

Normally u need to have about 2 "unbreakable" armors at the beggining of adventure at Sword Coast...The Ankheg Plate from Nashkel (farm)...the next made by smithy (if u have dsotsc/ntotsc few Ankhegs would appear on map at exit of Nashkel Mines)

Need hey? What about roaming around as 6 monks in multiplayer? Just kidding . With regards to the Ankheg armour bit, I am still rather uncomfortable with the 'tweak' idea of this. So SBB, are you willing to add this to DSotSC?

[NiGHTMARE]

You know, I never understood why every iron weapon in the game appears to be pretty much brand new. Realistically, the vast majority of them would date from before the Iron Throne even started tainting the ore from the Nashkel mine.

EDIT: you'd also think blacksmiths in the area would have at least started using bronze instead. Sure, it's not as good as iron/steel, but at least it wouldn't shatter.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 30 August 2005 - 03:57 PM.

[Sir BillyBob]

So SBB, are you willing to add this to DSotSC?

DSotSC doesn't add those ankheg's to that map (the area next to the mines, not the mines (AR4400) themselves. Those critters have always been there. There is a glitch in Taerom's dialog that allows you to sell him several shells for several suits of armor. I suspect that has long been fixed but I am not sure. With NTotSC, the blacksmith has several magical suits of armor to sell you. If you sell off some of your rings you have picked up off the ground, you should be able to equip your whole team. Besides, not all of the team is wearing metal armor. You do have a wizard and Imoen on the team right?

[Ascension64]

So SBB, are you willing to add this to DSotSC?

DSotSC doesn't add those ankheg's to that map (the area next to the mines, not the mines (AR4400) themselves. Those critters have always been there. There is a glitch in Taerom's dialog that allows you to sell him several shells for several suits of armor. I suspect that has long been fixed but I am not sure. With NTotSC, the blacksmith has several magical suits of armor to sell you. If you sell off some of your rings you have picked up off the ground, you should be able to equip your whole team. Besides, not all of the team is wearing metal armor. You do have a wizard and Imoen on the team right?

Well, no actually. I don't play. I only start new games with solo characters or to create particular situations I want to test. What I meant is, do you want to add the feature of Ankheg armor smithing into DSotSC, whether it be by Taerom or someone else?

And no, Taerom's dialogue glitch is even worse than that at the moment (in the confirmed bugs section) while I'm having a look at some other issues that have come up.