86 replies to this topic

[Ascension64]

Dude, it's impossible to use non-magical metal equipment in this game. I know you're trying to emulate the iron shortage and all, but this is not bad steel, it's more like wet paper. I prefer to use a non magical armor with a item of protection, because of the saving throw bonus, but that's just not possible anymore, even with spares on the pack. When I was fighting Greywolf wth my solo fighter\thief i went through three sets of splint mail and one of chainmail, everytime he hited me, my armor shatered . Can this not be fixed somehow? Other than this, the mod rules     ! Oh, you should probably put some scimitars throughout the firt part of the game, the only ones are drizzts, and we can steal just one. A hug from Brazil

I can tone down the shattering percentage. Currently it is 5% (1 in 20 hits will cause something to shatter on average). Or I can totally remove the shattering. Comments?

No go on the scimitars, sorry. Adding items is definitely a 'tweak', not a 'fix', and I am planning to separate 'tweaks' from 'fixes' currently implemented into BGT-WeiDU in a later version.

Edited by Ascension64, 27 August 2005 - 06:10 PM.

[Sir BillyBob]

Scimitars and katanas are available in some stores if you install DSotSC. These were not available in the original BG1 game and therefore should not be included in the BGT version. Additional items can always be found in other mods.

[Sir BillyBob]

Well if those types of swords are added to the game, I don't see why scimitar were not. I don't remember them being available in the older BGT (but I have played it so many times with DSotSC I don't remember the original).

[Ascension64]

Well if those types of swords are added to the game, I don't see why scimitar were not.  I don't remember them being available in the older BGT (but I have played it so many times with DSotSC I don't remember the original).

It could have simply been a 'we forgot' thing from Black Isle...

[CamDawg]

Bardez added all weapons from BG2 that weren't originally in BG--katanas, wakizashis, and IIRC ninja-tos. You could buy a katana in Candlekeep (!) and they also never broke. He also made scimitars more prevalent, as the original BG only has them in a few places--TotSC added them to the expansion areas and Drizzt wielded his pair, the only ones for non-TotSC games.

Tutu originally used a 5% probability for breakage, but it turned out you couldn't use anything for any reasonable time frame. Moving it down to 1% kept it interesting but without the 'hugely annoying' factor.

Edited by CamDawg, 28 August 2005 - 07:49 AM.

[Ascension64]

Bardez added all weapons from BG2 that weren't originally in BG--katanas, wakizashis, and IIRC ninja-tos. You could buy a katana in Candlekeep (!) and they also never broke.   He also made scimitars more prevalent, as the original BG only has them in a few places--TotSC added them to the expansion areas and Drizzt wielded his pair, the only ones for non-TotSC games.

Tutu originally used a 5% probability for breakage, but it turned out you couldn't use anything for any reasonable time frame. Moving it down to 1% kept it interesting but without the 'hugely annoying' factor.

The limiting factor I see in the item shattering mileau is that it makes the start of the game harder and that's about it. As soon as the party get their hands on +1 weapons and enchanted armour, the whole breakage thing becomes useless all of a sudden. Aren't we supposed to make the later bits harder instead of the earlier bits? Just a thought...

[Sir BillyBob]

No, players want a fully loaded PC at the beginning of the game and they want to bitch that it isn't challenging enough. If the items break at only 5% chance, you are just having a bad time with the game's random numbers (which is usually my luck as well). If it was 25% or so, I would be bitching too.

[f9th-underdog]

I agree on the bad luck with the Random number gen, took me till ch6 on one game to figure out why Aerie couldn't cast any spells, had cast spell in armor (g3twek), she had a +2 small shield 5% failure, she failed 50+% spells, this is also the same game where i get 5 critical misses in a row, 8 of 10 attacks are critical misses the rest are just misses.
some nights the only combat sound is the critical miss dialog, except Aerie she crit hitting with her sling all the time, go figure.

Nihal, the shortage was also caused by that guy in the mines 'poisoning', for lack of a better word, the ore so it wouldn't make good iron thus causing everything to break.

Edited by f9th-underdog, 29 August 2005 - 01:48 PM.

[SimDing0]

The IE's random number generator is notoriously awful. I recall that in DLTC we found even 1/100 was frustrating, and toned it down to something even lower. I believe Tutu sticks with 1/100. It'd be interesting to figure out roughly what figure BG1 itself uses.

[Sir BillyBob]

Nihal, the shortage was also caused by that guy in the mines 'poisoning', for lack of a better word, the ore so it wouldn't make good iron thus causing everything to break.

This is why your weapon can break. In BG1NPC, there is even a banter between Khalid and Jaheira when she tries to get him to use a staff because she is afraid that his sword might break in battle.

Your first big quest is to find out why the ore is tainted and some commoners you meet have a comment about plows breaking or some other problem with the ore. So why should you be able to pick up a sword from an enemy and not have it break? If anything, their weapons should have a chance to break as well.

Perhaps only the Black Talons and other members of the Iron Throne should be allowed to have good non-magical weapons. After all, they have their own source for ore.

Edited by Sir BillyBob, 29 August 2005 - 05:02 PM.

[Promilus]

Hehehe...I have G3 max HP for monsters...that makes RATS in Candlekeep some 10HP with 90% dmg reduction (slashing, piercing, crushing, missile)...now my bladesinger (TDD) uses in that battle 3 (shit) Longswords...next time...Minsc had the Plate Armor...some nasty kobold hit him with arrow (once) -plate armor was now only a junk...now I had a SPEAR (mostly of wood ) with my Vampire Hunter (TDD)..and guess what-IT HAD BEEN BROKEN!
LoL

[Delight]

I believe that the iron shortage would make metal weapons scarce, not all of them terribly useless. You dont make apple pie with rotten apples, afterall.

Good point.
I recall that one the first mods that I have made for BG1 have replaced most of iron weapons with wooden ones (i.e. most of guards had clubs and staves) and have removed most of iron weapons from stores.

[Ascension64]

These trains of thought seem really to cumulate in one option: making equipment shattering optional! This is of course in line with my push towards moving all tweaks to a separate component. Thoughts?

[seanas]

These trains of thought seem really to cumulate in one option: making equipment shattering optional!  This is of course in line with my push towards moving all tweaks to a separate component.  Thoughts?

isn't equipment shattering - annoying as it is - a central part of the BG1 narrative? why would it be any more otional than, say, the fact that CHARNAME is Bhaalspawn or Goirion gets offed by Sarevok in the prologue?

[Ascension64]

These trains of thought seem really to cumulate in one option: making equipment shattering optional!  This is of course in line with my push towards moving all tweaks to a separate component.  Thoughts?

isn't equipment shattering - annoying as it is - a central part of the BG1 narrative? why would it be any more otional than, say, the fact that CHARNAME is Bhaalspawn or Goirion gets offed by Sarevok in the prologue?

I'd like to ask a question in return. Is item shattering used in the original BG1? I don't actually know, because I never played it in its original context. If yes, then I will agree with making it permanent in the base installation. If no, then I believe it is a tweak.