16 replies to this topic

[minotaur_in_maze]

Been thinking of the various side quests (both mod and natural BG2) and finding some of them more to my liking than others.

What though makes a quest good to you? Modding wise I mean. Is it new areas to explore A good storyline? A quest with new items to find? A quest with lots of little twists and turns in the storyline?

What are your favorite, or less than favorite, quests and Why?

Minotaur In...Search of enlightenment.

[TheWizard]

Hmm, all of the above!

Seriously, a good quest does have all of the above. It starts with an excellent story; there has to be a good reason why the PC should accept a certain quest. Make the story intriguing, not simply another FedEx quest. Twists and turns are greatly welcome! Stuff like that is what makes a gamer actually feel like he/she is part of the game.

Adding new areas, rather than recycling old ones, is always a big plus. It is especially uplifting to veteran BG gamers who have "seen it" and "done it all." Area deja vu is not good, but if you could somehow use the notion of deja vu and weave it into a good storyline, then that would be cool! For example, PC saying to him/herself, "I had a strange case of deja vu today. I envisioned myself being hunted by a creature...again. A creature not of this world, but of what world, I am unsure. The creature's face I could not discern, but it was relentless in chasing me. I barely escaped, just like the first time I imagined this."

So, uhh, yeah, I guess I went back to the story aspect, which is vital! Adding various choices and outcomes are exceptionally good as well.

Characters are important too. I should rephrase that...characters with personalities are important. Think about all the NPC's in BG1 and BG2, if you met them in person, wouldn't you feel like you knew them already? They make lasting impressions in our minds, and a good quest will have such characters in it. Make the characters come alive through their written dialogue and voice acting.

A handsome reward at the end of a grueling quest is most appreciated as well. Personally, I prefer finding enchanted items rather than gold or gems. Although, a little of both isn't bad.

Edited by TheWizard, 13 August 2005 - 10:08 PM.

[seanas]

i find that question easier to answer the other way round - ie, 'what makes a quest bad?'. answer:

1. anything resembling a fedex quest. two random examples of quests that annoy me: retrieving the sword of chaos from the the djinn in CI (i always CLUA in the necessary bottle) and the yasraena rescue (i always run invisibly past the elves). two examples of quests i do like: the eshpurta quest (so sue me: i like something in TDD!) and the saerileth rescue (or the tashia rescue, for that matter).

if yr going to make me load an area - whether it's a new area or an ingame BGII area - there had better be a bloody good reason for it. you've gotta give me something to do there, whether it's complicated combat, interesting character development or multiple dialogue options: if it's just 'press 1 until quest finished', then yr wasting yr time making it and mine playing it. there has to be some interaction, some reason why my presence (as the player, not the pc) is necessary; some reason why the quest can't be assumed to happen off-screen.

2. anything involving extensive use of cutscenes, i can't stand cutscenes, they reduce playing the game to watching the screen, completely destroying gameplay. two examples of this: the riatavin quest in TDD (multiple sequential cutscenes), and keto's bard contest (with due apologies to JC, cos otherwise keto is ace) - anything that allows me to turn off the party AI and walk away from my computer for a few minutes without any risk of pc death is not my idea of fun. as a general rule, if you need extensive cutscenes to explain yr quest's plot, yr quest needs to be re-written. gameplay =/= watching cutscenes.

[Sir BillyBob]

Propably the hardest part of creating a quest is the reason why CHARNAME has to go perform it. I never understand why some powerful wizard suddenly appears and tells this level 5 (or even level 15) player to go get something because he/she is too busy to do it themselves.

At the same time, it isn't easy to come up with reasons why the PC should want to go on these quests. Money isn't always a good reason. Forcing the player to do it because it continues the storyline isn't very helpful either. So the creativity part takes the most time to prepare a quest.

Also, you can't repeat yourself (too many times). Forcing the PC to go adventuring because the other option is jail isn't going to work over and over again. Try various reasons, greed, revenge, rescuing someone, etc.

[Kulyok]

One word: empathy. If the personages of the quest come alive in your mind, if you feel for them - the modder's work is done, by and large.

Areas, items and cutscenes are little more than fancy wrappings, in my opinion. Although as an experienced power gamer, I would not like to see powerful items as a reward - it may well destroy the game balance.

[hlidskialf]

Nice tak, both views poinent. What I like:
- Good motivation, story, content. If this means cutscenes, I'm okay with it.
- Interesting rewards. Not another "Potion of _____", and no "Sword of ctrl+Y" either. creativity is the key for me.
- Puzzles. Whether riddlebased, logic solving, trap defeating, etc...
- Taking care of the BBEG.
- Options for quest completion. There should be more than one way to solve a quest.

What I bloody hate:
- FedEx quests!!!! I cheat my way through 99% of these. (Note ctb_ff arrived hours after my first attempt at playing ctb.)
- Undefeatable badguys. I'm not saying that you should be able to kill everything you come across. But more to PnP, when you are getting your ass handed to you - RUN! The TS chromatic dragon forced me to edit the cre and smite it soundly. It should be the player's choice to fight and die, or run to fight another day.
- Railroading. What's the point in having different character classes, alignments and attempts at RPG personality if everyone has to do the exact same bloody things?! Bah! It's what made the Dragonlance module suck so bad and started this evil trend.


In the end, it should be fun and interesting. Otherwise, it's just work. One should be paid for work.

[Delight]

Sex. Lots of it.

[Chooch]

All of the above and emotional conflict. Having to live with you actions (ie Romancing an evil character will effect how you are viewed by others).

Best of all, when it forces me to rethink how I play the game.

[Delight]

"Kidnapping" quests suck, because they involve a lot of cheesy plot devices.
What's the point in being paranoid, when the game just turns the cutscene mode on and takes the character away ?

[Kulyok]

Heh, I liked Morte's kidnapping quest in PS:T, more or less, while "kidnapped women" quest in Nox bored me immensely. I suppose it depends on the dialogue, and the characters.

[Kulyok]

*wipes tears after two minutes of helpless laughter*

Yes! Yes!!! 20000, 200000, 2000000!

(And a possible side quest: frame Bodhi for using Larloch Minor Drain or some such and send her to Spellhold, too.)

[Daeva]

I agree with pretty much everything said here, though I would add a few suggestions of my own . . .

1) For god's sake don't make the whole question hack & slash!! The upper levels of Durlag's tower were a great example - a *few* enemies, some of which you could fight, bargain with, run from, etc (Kirinhale and the thief guy), a contrasting example is the Greyclans mod - the story seemed fine but all the fighting just began to piss me off! I don't mind a few difficult battles but when I find myself having to rest every 5 min because the people I'm fighting are so strong or there are so many of them I just begin to CTRL+Y them all . . .

2) Not mentioned but I think it should have been - a good baddie! I think one thing BG I & II got right was a decent enemy Sarevok, Irenicus and Bodhi were all really good fun and, while not strictly believable, still realistic characters (as in personalities not motivations). ToB on the other hand didn't have that - there were too many "OMG they're the most powerful enemy yet!!!" characters in it and it just got boring.

3) If you're going to put in any quest items then please, please, please make them interesting and balanced, etc but one thing many people forget is to simply get the description and icons fitting in - the number of mods which include weapons with the line: "Enhancement +3" is ridiculous and it just screams MOD MOD MOD! It's not that hard to get it right so please do . . .

4) Appart from the motivation, can we avoid the stereotypical quest givers - personally I'm fed up with getting quests from this arrogant mage, that self-righteous law-enforcer, or the helpless nice guy who's been cheated by an evil person. The one quest that really springs to mind in this respect in the Ritual in the Tactics mod, when the man (Pontifex?) just turns round and says he's going to betray you, blah blah.

Well, I'll end the rant there ;p

[Deva]

1) Decent loot... not gold/gems, but creatively enchanted items that are USEFUL. Not just another sword of super-slayage-ness.

2) Distinctive characters, not just the average questy-type people. People that you'll remember, either funny, chillingly, witty, or just incredibly evil. And also characters that would be interesting to fight; not just another archmage, or another person whosummons cheese monsters, ect.

3) It must seamlessly blend in with the rest of the game, natrually.

4) Quest ending to appeal to players of all alignments - I hate it when quests are angled towards good players.

Edited by Hishi, 09 June 2006 - 01:17 PM.

[Azkyroth]

*takes notes*

Arkalian shouldn't disappoint in most of these respects, though certain of the battles are likely to be quite challenging. One question, though:

2. anything involving extensive use of cutscenes, i can't stand cutscenes, they reduce playing the game to watching the screen, completely destroying gameplay. two examples of this: the riatavin quest in TDD (multiple sequential cutscenes), and keto's bard contest (with due apologies to JC, cos otherwise keto is ace) - anything that allows me to turn off the party AI and walk away from my computer for a few minutes without any risk of pc death is not my idea of fun. as a general rule, if you need extensive cutscenes to explain yr quest's plot, yr quest needs to be re-written. gameplay =/= watching cutscenes.

By this do you mean specifically the long "narrative" cutscenes like at the opening of the game and in the chapter transitions, or does this also apply to little short "cutscenes" like those before and after the departure on Saemon's ship dialogue or those where the characters automatically walk forward to a certain point before dialogue begins? Arkalian only has 2 of the former planned; maybe 3, but a significant number of the latter...