66 replies to this topic

[fallen_demon]

\1) Level of adventure

I'd rather go for a 'plot element' and make the character start at a comfortable level 5, with a room to grow without having to invent the wheel and having plenty of room to grow.

Maybe a post-tob game couldn't work, but becoming a low level character after fighting through bg1,2 and tob wouldn't be very fun. w/o some sort of clever plot excuse. That said, it would take a lot to make a convincing level drop. It was bad enough in rtt, and that was only to level 12 enough.

2) Project scope.

One cannot embrace the unembraceable. So the priority goes to story line and adventures, rather than the new kits and items and NPCs.

I think the main problems with ate was that Silverose wanted do to much cool sounding stuff and didn't want to drop anything. But yeah, I agree with you about what the focus should have been.

3) NPCs

I would have dropped all of the old BioWARE NPCs, romances or no. How much could one write for the same character? So up to 10 new characters. No more than 10, though, because more would choke the development.

agreed. all of the npc's would have been cool, but I'd rather see a tc out with a couple then an idea for all of them.

Fixed quotes - SC

Edited by SConrad, 02 August 2005 - 06:30 AM.

[Lord-Jyssev]

\1) Level of adventure

I'd rather go for a 'plot element' and make the character start at a comfortable level 5, with a room to grow without having to invent the wheel and having plenty of room to grow.

Maybe a post-tob game couldn't work, but becoming a low level character after fighting through bg1,2 and tob wouldn't be very fun. w/o some sort of clever plot excuse. That said, it would take a lot to make a convincing level drop. It was bad enough in rtt, and that was only to level 12 enough.

2) Project scope.

One cannot embrace the unembraceable. So the priority goes to story line and adventures, rather than the new kits and items and NPCs.

I think the main problems with ate was that Silverose wanted do to much cool sounding stuff and didn't want to drop anything. But yeah, I agree with you about what the focus should have been.

3) NPCs

I would have dropped all of the old BioWARE NPCs, romances or no. How much could one write for the same character? So up to 10 new characters. No more than 10, though, because more would choke the development.

agreed. all of the npc's would have been cool, but I'd rather see a tc out with a couple then an idea for all of them.

uhh your quotes arent working. it's very confusing... but maybe it's just me...

Fixed - SC

Edited by SConrad, 02 August 2005 - 06:31 AM.

[Hendryk]

I love the idea of post-ToB adventuring and the tools now are vastly better for the job than when Silverose first proposed the idea.  However, I think the RP aspect would be greatly diminished if the PC were reduced to a 5th level nobody.  And all your companions dead?  Even if they survived the Throne in fact?  That's putting a terrible strain in *my* sense of continuity at least.  If nothing else, this 5th level shlub would have all this god-like equipment plus the stats from all the tomes and the machine of Lum the Mad.

I'd much prefer an adventure for high level characters.  It would be simple enough to make much of it a matter of RP wherein the party's levels were irrelevant.  For the main combat, create a challenge area that is chock full of fairly difficult encounters, that spoils potions and scrolls and allows no rest.  If Amn were chosen as the venue, for example, the mod could mostly involve politics at the very highest level and ultimately a confrontation with the Twisted Rune.  Not in that silly single room off the Bridge District either but a properly complex and defended lair, suitable for one or more of the most powerful and ambitious liches extant.  And if you don't want the Soa/ToB NPCs, they almost all have business of their own to tend to after ToB.  Let them make their farewells properly rather than snuff them so off-handedly.  Some might even recur for cameos as the non-party NPCs from BG1 did.

[Delight]

I hate the idea of reducing PCs levels.
All other party members have reached insane levels despite being mere humans.
PC didn't get any bonus to exp for being a child of Bhaal.
Also, most of my party members survived, so killing them all would kill the sense of continuity too.
IMO high level adventures and political intrigues would be more suitable for After the End.

[SimDing0]

If you're having to consider such forced continuity to incorporate desirable gameplay into a sequel, then where's the appeal of a sequel at all, except in name? You may just as well tell the story of a different Bhaalspawn parallel to that of BG1/2. Trying to bend awkward facts like the PC's level into some kind of coherent story purely because a sequel seems like a cool idea doesn't seem like good design methodology.

[Delight]

And that what the original AtE tried to do. And it chocked on its own tail before even leaving its cradle. I think that was one of the main reasons - it is simply undoable. ToB, imo proves it - the ultra-high level adventure with Neo1, Neo2, Neo3, Neo4, Neo5 and Neo6 instead of Player1, Player2, Player3 etc... is horribly boring.

I think that the game would be more interesting if the character would be able to overkill most of enemies instead of meeting absurdally strong ones all the time.
Besides, high level is a problem only if the mod is a hack&slash.
When most of the game is about social interaction, high level ceases to be something that destroys the gameplay.
Elminster and Khelben are epic level, but still they have problems (especially Khelben).
After playing BG2 and ToB, I'm fed up with penetrating stupid dungeons and killing stupid monsters.
I think that <CHARNAME> is tired too.
It would be nice if the mod would be about <CHARNAME> retiring from adventuring and dealing with normal live.
Love
Power
Politics
Trouble with people who are prejudiced against <CHARNAME>
Beautiful places that aren't ruined and where no one wants to kill <CHARNAME>.
Let's leave adventuring to other people and enjoy the deserved retirement (or at least the vacation) .

Edited by Delight, 02 August 2005 - 09:49 AM.

[Delight]

I think that there's a difference between knowing about something and experiencing it .
Besides I doubt if <CHARNAME>'s future would be so "happy ever after".
She has power, powerful enemies and difficult past to deal with.
I think that after the end many powerful organisation would be interested in recruiting her.

[Hendryk]

And a part of the fun of a post-ToB mod would watching NPCs, who formerly adopted a very haughty or bullying attitude, cringe and crawl before the mighty PC.  And if the PC were fool enough to leave bodies lying all around Athkatla as in SoA, (s)he would discover that *now* his/her every move is noticed by everyone and all deaths have to be accounted for in the courts.

Sure.  The PC, at the player's option, could simply respond by going on a rampage and killing everyone.  That would attract the attention of Elminster, Khelben, et. al. and END GAME, no matter how tough the PC was.  As for free play, having such an uber character try to "fit in" somewhere in society would do for me.  Otherwise, it would be just another middling character with a lot of angst and guilt to work off.  I get plenty of those in RL; don't need to roleplay for 'em.

Note that a new romance, with a relatively very low-level NPC, one who would definitely be challenged going one-on-one with an ogre, would be a nice way to rein the PC in - if the NPC were attractive and amusing enough.

Edited by Hendryk, 02 August 2005 - 11:40 AM.

[Hendryk]

Different strokes, I guess.  You seem to want something like a Greek tragedy out of it while I'm all for a light comedy of manners.  

Oh well.  I'll be good and shut up now.

[Delight]

I rather thought about PC seeking her place in life after the hell of ToB and discovering that adventures became boring and tiring.
I think that the "spirit of BG" was lost when BG1 ended.
She would still have to be nice to people who have power, because they have power and killing people who have power isn't a thing that is accepted in society.
Being a very powerful fighter/battlemage doesn't make life in society easier.
If she doesn't like bearoucracy, she can seek a place where isn't much bearoucracy.
I think that living on outside normal society and using luxuries should be possible too.
Besides, there's always a "great evil" to be fought against.
It would be funny if sometimes a party of adventurers would ask <CHARNAME> for help.
As for powerful organisations...
Organisations can help <CHARNAME> to find a place to live, they can provide her with goods, information, political power, respect and company.

[Kulyok]

Ah, I've been thinking of a similar idea during my lunch break: what if three hundred years have passed, and only PC's elven companions survived? PC, naturally, was elven too, or their lifespan was prolonged as a reward for the stopping the prophecies from coming to fruition.

The problem was how to bring elven NPC's power level (Aerie, Viconia, Coran) to the beginnings - there would need to be quite a backstory to explain that. With PC themselves losing their powers I have no problem explaining.

I am wary of new NPC's, though, being very conservative and rather reluctant of falling in love with new faces. There would need to be one hell of a writer to provide my interest, for example.